CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #20

[citygirl]

I wonder if the plethora of delays helped or hindered the prosecution? It felt to me like just when they would gain some momentum and get in their groove there would be another freaking delay. Did they welcome the time to regroup and review their case or did it force them to go back to square one and start all over? I can definitely see the delays as a double-edged sword.

Me too. Also wonder about how much the jury stayed connected.

 

[missy1974]

One thing I’ve wondered—and I’m not asking you to debate or explain in any way. Do you still think that the defense team really believes that DK is the killer?

I am not convinced they every thought he was... I think it was more about LE not doing their due diligence and investigating him. He said he was in Hawaii, they believed him... ok ,we heard that Avila called the airline, but why didn't we hear Avila say that? Why didn't LE get something in writing to verify and "show" it? Then cmon... the phone records... seriously... that proved nothing LOL It proved he called some numbers in Hawaii... he also called numbers in Cali, but that didn't mean he was in either place... that one was funny in a sad sorta way IMO After all the testimony we had about towers and locations and everything else, that was their proof he was in Hawaii? He also said that he took or transferred a certain amount from PayPal, but all indications are that he gave them the wrong amount... I recall Dugal being asked and Bachman being asked if anyone verified those amounts... no one did IIRC. Also, the selling of EIP, no one looked into that. IMO it appears that they took Dan's word for it. And looking at the search warrants, keeping in mind that it was not part of the trial... it was Dan who told them Joey was going to fire Chase, it was Dan that said he owed Joey for a gambling debt (which we never heard any sort of verification of this at all in the trial). And before anyone mentions it... I'm not bringing up Dan's paypal records because that wasn't LE that got those, that was the defense lol

All that being said... I think Maline made a comment once in court that made me think he might actually believe it, can't recall how it came up though or in what context LOL But I expect them to go fully with the 'confirmation bias' in their closings... they had things that pointed at Dan but they never went down that road... just the Chase road. It will be much the same with the truck... Bachman put some circles on some still pics and they went with it was Chase's truck and didn't bother to look at any other trucks (the dodge Ram) or people close the McStay's. I think the cell phone data.. they will go with they had info from Boles and even thought that GPS put him right at the gravesites (in Bachman/Hanke interrogation of Merritt) and they went with that... they will probably also point out that Boles changed some of his cell phone data later I can't wait for closings! I have to work in the morning, but I am hoping L&C gets there to live stream it and I can listen from work I expect the defense's to be much longer than the pro's lol

 

[geevee]

I realize I am WAY late in the game...or trial, but I agree with this so much. Under the best of circumstance (if you are a murderer) there is SOME minimal forensic or biological evidence of a murder. He used a sledgehammer on FOUR people and there was none. I find that unfathomable. Criminalists can go back years later after New flooring, multiple coats of paint, countless cleanings, and still recover evidence. I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they were killed in their home, and no sign of a struggle. I can't imagine killing 4 people and no one struggles, screams, tries to break free etc. I just don't see the home being a murder scene.
ETA I have followed and read the exhaustive threads since the beginning. Fascinating discussion.

I'm not debating where the murders took place (as I don't think that's critical as to who killed them) but how do you think paint got on Summer's bra and the sledge hammer, as well as painter's tape in the grave? Also, why were they all barefoot?

Those for me are the most compelling items that tie the murders to the home, but I'm not married to it having happened there. It's just as easy if CM killed them elsewhere and came to the house afterwards to create the Paul Mitchell check.

 

[missy1974]

I realize I am WAY late in the game...or trial, but I agree with this so much. Under the best of circumstance (if you are a murderer) there is SOME minimal forensic or biological evidence of a murder. He used a sledgehammer on FOUR people and there was none. I find that unfathomable. Criminalists can go back years later after New flooring, multiple coats of paint, countless cleanings, and still recover evidence. I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they were killed in their home, and no sign of a struggle. I can't imagine killing 4 people and no one struggles, screams, tries to break free etc. I just don't see the home being a murder scene.
ETA I have followed and read the exhaustive threads since the beginning. Fascinating discussion.

Wish you had jumped in before now! haha Yep, whoever did this... Chase or anyone else... no way do I think it happened in the home. JMO

 

[asyousay]

I realize I am WAY late in the game...or trial, but I agree with this so much. Under the best of circumstance (if you are a murderer) there is SOME minimal forensic or biological evidence of a murder. He used a sledgehammer on FOUR people and there was none. I find that unfathomable. Criminalists can go back years later after New flooring, multiple coats of paint, countless cleanings, and still recover evidence. I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they were killed in their home, and no sign of a struggle. I can't imagine killing 4 people and no one struggles, screams, tries to break free etc. I just don't see the home being a murder scene.
ETA I have followed and read the exhaustive threads since the beginning. Fascinating discussion.

I agree and I know some posters on here say the towels point to house being the crime scene but I don’t think it does.

It means they was taken from the home but it doesn’t mean that’s where they were killed.

Joey injuries to me point to his murder being drawn out as well + he was tied up. Chase didn’t have that much of a window frame to do that before forging the check and deleting it. So I’m not convinced all the family were dead by that point.


IMO MOO

 

[missy1974]

Me too. Also wonder about how much the jury stayed connected.

Maybe it made it easier? hearing a bunch of testimony and then having time to absorb it before hit with a bunch more lol

 

[missy1974]

I'm not debating where the murders took place (as I don't think that's critical as to who killed them) but how do you think paint got on Summer's bra and the sledge hammer, as well as painter's tape in the grave? Also, why were they all barefoot?

Those for me are the most compelling items that tie the murders to the home, but I'm not married to it having happened there. It's just as easy if CM killed them elsewhere and came to the house afterwards to create the Paul Mitchell check.

The barefoot thing... I have never read much into that, it would depend on the shoes that they would have been wearing... maybe fell off? Flip flops fall off easily... it's like other things in this case that were never found, like Summers purse and Joey's wallet.

Were Summer's glasses even found? Didn't she have prescription glasses? Am I imagining things? Wasn't that what Mike said about her sunglasses ... that she never would have left without her prescription sunglasses...

I have thought of different times, but then you have to make all the phone pings fit... it's not easy LOL

 

[la2cabo]

I think the PT should open with mentioning they are 100% positive of where the murders took place. Where they took place isn't as important as who did it and why.

 

[Hte2w8]

I'm not debating where the murders took place (as I don't think that's critical as to who killed them) but how do you think paint got on Summer's bra and the sledge hammer, as well as painter's tape in the grave? Also, why were they all barefoot?

Those for me are the most compelling items that tie the murders to the home, but I'm not married to it having happened there. It's just as easy if CM killed them elsewhere and came to the house afterwards to create the Paul Mitchell check.

They were painting in the house. It's not unusual for paint to be on summers clothing and the sledgehammer. They weren't careful to protect the carpet because they knew they would be tearing it out. It's plausible that some paint got on the sledgehammer ,and on summer. I believe they were taken from the home, during what would have been the boys bath time, I just don't think they were murdered there.
ETA I only think the murder scene is important from am evidentiary standpoint. Find the murder scene and you can likely find the evidence and witnesses to convict.

 

[geevee]

They were painting in the house. It's not unusual for paint to be on summers clothing and the sledgehammer. They weren't careful to protect the carpet because they knew they would be tearing it out. It's plausible that some paint got on the sledgehammer ,and on summer. I believe they were taken from the home, during what would have been the boys bath time, I just don't think they were murdered there.
ETA I only think the murder scene is important from am evidentiary standpoint. Find the murder scene and you can likely find the evidence and witnesses to convict.

I agree about the bath time, since one of the boys' bathrobes was in the grave, but the way the paint dried on her bra cup, she either had to be laying down or the bra not on her body for it to have dried in such a fashion.

Given the cups seem to have been cut apart, I'm not so sure the bra was on her when the paint either got on it or dried. If he did cut it off her, it may have landed in paint and when leaving he scooped it up with her pants and threw them in the grave with her.

I'd also like to know about the keys in Joey's pocket, that small loose key that looks the same as one on a key ring is scratching at my brain. Why was it there? Was it CM's storage key and he took it from him? Why couldn't the detectives figure out what if any significance it had?

 

[la2cabo]

I want to know how the Trooper got to the border. We will probably never get the real answer.

 

[Edmo]

I realize I am WAY late in the game...or trial, but I agree with this so much. Under the best of circumstance (if you are a murderer) there is SOME minimal forensic or biological evidence of a murder. He used a sledgehammer on FOUR people and there was none. I find that unfathomable. Criminalists can go back years later after New flooring, multiple coats of paint, countless cleanings, and still recover evidence. I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they were killed in their home, and no sign of a struggle. I can't imagine killing 4 people and no one struggles, screams, tries to break free etc. I just don't see the home being a murder scene.
ETA I have followed and read the exhaustive threads since the beginning. Fascinating discussion.

The Pathologist testified that blows to the head with a sledge hammer could produce MINIMAL blood spatter. FYI

 

[travelbug]

One thing I’ve wondered—and I’m not asking you to debate or explain in any way. Do you still think that the defense team really believes that DK is the killer?

I don't recall @missy1974 or the DT claiming who the guilty party(ies) are. What I have seen is several non-biased comments regarding the failure of the PT to prove the statements made in their OS. I have seen a complete lack of "support" for Chase or his criminal history. If there had been a thorough investigation and bias-free evidence presented by the PT it would be easy for me to cast a vote for guilty. Unfortunately, that has not happened. I believe haste or bias resulted in a failure to objectively investigate all possibilities and suspects. I have serious doubts regarding the credibility of the evidence against CM, and therefore would not be able to reach a guilty verdict. jmho

 

[Chelly]

If what judge said last week is the plan, he'll give jury instructions first and then the closings. I like listening to them too. I hope L&C are on their toes and have tested their equipment before the judge takes the bench, I don't want to miss a minute of anything.

Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[citygirl]

The barefoot thing... I have never read much into that, it would depend on the shoes that they would have been wearing... maybe fell off? Flip flops fall off easily... it's like other things in this case that were never found, like Summers purse and Joey's wallet.

Were Summer's glasses even found? Didn't she have prescription glasses? Am I imagining things? Wasn't that what Mike said about her sunglasses ... that she never would have left without her prescription sunglasses...

I have thought of different times, but then you have to make all the phone pings fit... it's not easy LOL

I am thinking all those things are buried in the desert somewhere? Or discarded anywhere along the defendant's route in those many days. Who knows ? Where were the bodies before he buried them?

 

[travelbug]

I realize I am WAY late in the game...or trial, but I agree with this so much. Under the best of circumstance (if you are a murderer) there is SOME minimal forensic or biological evidence of a murder. He used a sledgehammer on FOUR people and there was none. I find that unfathomable. Criminalists can go back years later after New flooring, multiple coats of paint, countless cleanings, and still recover evidence. I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they were killed in their home, and no sign of a struggle. I can't imagine killing 4 people and no one struggles, screams, tries to break free etc. I just don't see the home being a murder scene.
ETA I have followed and read the exhaustive threads since the beginning. Fascinating discussion.

Welcome to the thread and the discussion!
What you have mentioned is just one of the reasons I believe the Prosecution's case has not been proven BARD.

 

[Hte2w8]

The Pathologist testified that blows to the head with a sledge hammer could produce MINIMAL blood spatter. FYI

Understood, but I am not just referring to blood. I'm referring to hair, DNA, fibers, saliva, sweat, bodily fluids, skin cells etc.. Murder of 4 people is a big job, and means four trips to the car, carrying a body each time. Its inconceivable that there wouldn't be evidence transfer.

 

[Chelly]

See you all tomorrow morning for closing arguments. Pray no camera glitch.

 

[citygirl]

I don't recall @missy1974 or the DT claiming who the guilty party(ies) are. What I have seen is several non-biased comments regarding the failure of the PT to prove the statements made in their OS. I have seen a complete lack of "support" for Chase or his criminal history. If there had been a thorough investigation and bias-free evidence presented by the PT it would be easy for me to cast a vote for guilty. Unfortunately, that has not happened. I believe haste or bias resulted in a failure to objectively investigate all possibilities and suspects. I have serious doubts regarding the credibility of the evidence against CM, and therefore would not be able to reach a guilty verdict. jmho

Haste? I don't think so, TB.

 

[Hte2w8]

Welcome to the thread and the discussion!
What you have mentioned is just one of the reasons I believe the Prosecution's case has not been proven BARD.

Thank you!
I was thinking about it last night, And I'm undecided if I would be able to convict if I were sitting on a jury... Of course, I defer to the jurors because they are on scene, we are looking at this through a lens.
That is not to say that I don't think he committed the crime, that's only to say I'm not sure if the prosecution has met their burden... If I would be convinced being a reasonable doubt.