CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Alisajo]

Self delete

 

[mrjitty]

It was interesting the Defence Attorney started getting on his high horse about the conduct of the prosecutor and making official complaints

The judge cut him off and stated the conduct of both state and defence was the worst he'd see in 30 years

No love lost obviously

 

[katydid23]

Just working through these one at a time. Has this actually been shown? I think we need to be very careful. For instance from what I understand DK must have had paypal Authority. And as far as I can see he submitted a paypal request on the face of the record, rather than creating any fraudulent documents. So if he had the lawful authority to authorise the payment this is not criminal in my view, though may well have lead to civil liability. So for instance, if he suspected Joey might have been murdered, and thus decided to action the disputed sum while he still could - this is in my view completely stupid but we can't assume stealing, IMO.

Yes, you are correct. It might not have been fraudulent, per se. It doesn't look nearly as bad as sneaking into Joey's home and using the computer to write and print out checks to himself. That is true.

Trouble I have with this is that the threats appeared to be to 404 the site or remove SEO backlinks.

While I agree this is damaging to a business partnership, these are not unusual threats for web suppliers to make when owed money.

I have done it in 2018 myself as a last resort because it is the only leverage you have to getting paid. Indeed this is why as hosts we keep the keys to the crown jewels whenever we can! If you read Joey's long email to his webhost, in his own words, he outlines his intention to end the business partnership for largely strategic reasons. I happen to agree with Joey's reasons, but I also have a great deal of sympathy for DK in that situation and I think it is is no way clear that Joey did not in fact owe DK a reasonable payout to end the relationship.

In my opinion DK got outmaneuvered by Joey because he was too naive. In the end the SEO was the entire sales pipeline and DK controlled it. That was his leverage to achieve a favourable exit. And why should he not get his best exit?

That's all true. But it might look bad to the jury. IIRC, he sounded very angry and scary, like he was going a bit overboard.

If.

I suspect the Hawaii evidence is going to be rather like the graveside knife. Something speculated into existence.

I am not so sure about that. I am afraid that they didn't really go to great lengths to fully investigate his alibi. I think they accepted what he showed them, which may not be ironclad.

Worst case scenario, DK was in Hawaii, but the detectives didn't fully document it, and now it could be brought into legal question.

I agree if this witness is credible, that will be reasonable doubt. But will the witness provide details that check out? Or will it just be a wild accusation?

My fear is that the witness provided details that do fit the evidence. For example, in her version, the family was not killed in the home. That seems to fit the forensics better than the state's current theory.

Will the jury accept that 4 people were bludgeoned with a sledgehammer, and there is no blood in the home or in the vehicles? I think that is going to be a big problem,

Agreed.

Chase displayed knowledge of the time of death. The case against his is overwhelming IMO

I used to think the case against him was overwhelming. Right now, I fear it looks a bit underwhelming. The Quickbooks look to nail him. But I am not clear on some of the other things I had counted on.

I haven't yet seen clear evidence of any 30k that Chase stole from Joey. I am not saying he didn't--just saying that so far it hasn't been clarified in testimony. JMO

But I do know that it is early in the trial and I need to be more patient.

 

[HelenK]

Where can I read this email?

"No Good-Byes"
Rick Baker, pp. 146-149

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All true. However, the documents might be in the old case files of the police department. And the District Attorneys are the ones that hand over the discovery. Are they going to hand over every piece of paper concerning every prior suspect over the past several years of the police investigation? I think they are expected legally to hand over every document concerning Chase Merritt and that investigation of him as a suspect.

But there may be documents still in police files that concern OTHER SUSPECTS, that the DA would not see as relevant when they handed over the Discovery info.

IDK the answer in this case Katy but I have no reason to think it would be any different than all the others I've followed.

The prosecutors had to turnover their entire case file in the Holly Bobo case for example. Another case that had been investigated extensively for years before and after Holly's remains were found years later. The discovery files were the largest in TN history.

The defense received everything starting from day one of the investigation when she first went missing.

They used some of the turnovered discovery to accuse someone else of being there and killing HB since he was one of the ones the TBI had investigated as a possible suspect.

The jury didnt find the ex agents testimony credible. The state had produced convincing evidence as to this guy's whereabouts showing he had no involvement in Holly's kidnapping and murder.

So even though the defense even had the ex TBI agent testify that he thought this particular individual was the killer he was not a credible witness for the defense.

In the end none of it worked for the defense and Zach Adams was still found guilty.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

The difficult situation for the prosecution, in my opinion, is that some of the reasons they cite for accusing Chase, also exist for DK.

Chase stole from Joey. >>>So did DK.

Joey was going to fire Chase. >>>Joey fired DK already and was in process of buying him out.

Chase was angry with Joey and Summer.>>> So was DK.

In fact, DK had threatened Joey, IIRC. I believe there is written evidence of those threats.

So if the defense can show that DK lied about his Hawaiian alibi, that would be quite damning evidence. That would show consciousness of guilt that he needed to manufacture that alibi.

Add to that, detailed, emotional witness testimony, from an ex girlfriend, who claims to be frightened of DK because of all the things he told her when he confessed to killing the family...

I think that would be a large vat of reasonable doubt.


The most damning evidence against Chase is the Quickbook checks on the 4th and 5th. I hope it can overcome the weight of the doubt being created by DK's behavior/history.

DK also has some DV charges, doesn't he? But I think that was after they went missing?

 

[missy1974]

The procedural submissions and general dressing down from the Judge at the end of this session include the revelation that in 2013 CM googled how to change his identity (around 57mins)

We are getting a witness on this.

That's interesting! I wonder if it was before or after they were found? It sounds like it was on his phone.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, you are correct. It might not have been fraudulent, per se. It doesn't look nearly as bad as sneaking into Joey's home and using the computer to write and print out checks to himself. That is true.

Yeah - its the same reason why Chase's constant ripping off of Joey is likely not criminal.

However the cheque fraud is likely a felony, and I think it is highly significant that Joey likely learned of it on the day of his death.

There is no indication DK was getting into Joey's money until the aftermath when obviously things got weird and they tried to run the business themselves.

That's all true. But it might look bad to the jury. IIRC, he sounded very angry and scary, like he was going a bit overboard.

This is why I think he should be called as a state witness. He was constantly in touch with Joey until the murders. We need to hear about that.

I am not so sure about that. I am afraid that they didn't really go to great lengths to fully investigate his alibi. I think they accepted what he showed them, which may not be ironclad.

Worst case scenario, DK was in Hawaii, but the detectives didn't fully document it, and now it could be brought into legal question.

IMO this comes down to how investigations work via theory of the case.

You have two theories. 1. Chase did it. 2. DK did it.

Then you investigate. So lets say for DK he provides a travel booking that on its face, places him in Hawaii. Lets say he also has a witness or two.

Chase on the other hand - his alibi collapses for the 4th etc etc and everything else we know

So eventually the circumstantial evidence moves you in one direction. But that is the misdirection of the defence. Because the detectives did not find any evidence linking DK to the crime, this absence of evidence creates the space for wild speculation. I will be surprised if the defence has one single piece of evidence placing DK in Cali for 4 feb 2010

My fear is that the witness provided details that do fit the evidence. For example, in her version, the family was not killed in the home. That seems to fit the forensics better than the state's current theory.

OK - but will there been any testimony that fits to physical evidence that the defence investigated? Or will it just be wild speculation about where they were killed that can never be verified?

Because anyone can make up a theory on how they were killed.

Will the jury accept that 4 people were bludgeoned with a sledgehammer, and there is no blood in the home or in the vehicles? I think that is going to be a big problem,

I used to think the case against him was overwhelming. Right now, I fear it looks a bit underwhelming. The Quickbooks look to nail him. But I am not clear on some of the other things I had counted on.

I haven't yet seen clear evidence of any 30k that Chase stole from Joey. I am not saying he didn't--just saying that so far it hasn't been clarified in testimony. JMO

But I do know that it is early in the trial and I need to be more patient.

I think there will be blood evidence in the house.

 

[missy1974]

I have to go to work today I should be home for afternoon testimony, but I expect good updates in the morning LOL It's going to be the officer that did something with the computers, Schrader or Schroder, the one that the defense wanted their expert to be there to watch testimony.

 

[missy1974]

@mrjitty We've already heard some testimony about what they took from the home. IMO if they found blood, we would know by now. It would not be logical for the State not to get that out there, especially after they went to great lengths to have the ME say there might not be any blood, and the defense had her say she would "expect to see blood". I think it would be really really dumb of them not to get that evidence out there if it exists, which leads me to believe it does not. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo if the defense team is relying heavily on what DKs ex girlfriend will testify to then that can be and often is a very slippery slope that could backfire. I've seen it happen before. In other cases the defense witnesses wound up helping the state.

Jurors look with a jaundice eye at any new witness that suddenly appears right before a trial that has been in the works for many, many years.

Imo if they are relying on her to save the day she sure better be very credible with absolutely no personal biases of her own.

If she has any personal baggage of her own it's a given the state will make sure those are known to the jury.

It's a given the state investigators have already done their own investigation on this ex girlfriend even interviewing others she may know well or in the past.

Those individuals could be called in rebuttal to refute her credibility. And if she has verbally spoken about her own personal biases against DK that also will be brought out.

Putting all eggs in one basket is never a wise idea. Imo.

The defense did that by putting the ex TBI agent on the stand in their case. He was the lead investigator over Holly's case for 2 years. It was an epic failure. He came across as unbelievable having tunnel vision and far more concerned about him being right than seeking the actual ones who were really involved.

If I was a juror I would be thinking why would DK confess weeks before the trial knowing if Merritt is found guilty DK would know he had gotten away with murder? Something is off about not only the timing but what he is supposed to have confessed.

We now know a knife wasnt found in the graves. There was no evidence of marks on the bones consistent with a knife being used. DK nor CM either wouldnt have to use a knife to gain control. He simply would grab one of the children threatening to harm them and everyone else would comply.

Now I see why the defense entered the imaginary knife though into their OS.

Thank goodness the judge will make it clear to the jury at the end that openings, and closings by either side are not to be considered as evidence because they aren't.

He will tell them the only thing they can consider as evidence in deliberation is only what came from the witnesses, under oath, from the witness stand.

So I'm not sure this will go as well as the defense is relying on by having DKs ex testify.

Imo

 

[Tssiemer]

Can we get a new thread? I don't know if it's the website or what but my phone and computer are having trouble loading this thread quickly. Thaaaaaanks!

 

[Harmony 2]

Fresh and clean thread is ready for posting. Here is the link for the new thread:

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

 

[Harmony 2]

This thread is closed.