CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Tricia, Jan 9, 2019.

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  1. ThorJanus

    ThorJanus Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I think the deafening sound is the silence in comments stepping up to defend Summer. As I recall back around 2013 I went in and out of the cruel and bad blood that went on between the varying camps. I noted no one defending Summer. I do not in any way want to cast disparage towards any this family, especially Summer after knowing what went on to her body. I find it heartbreaking that the other friends and family were clueless for 10 days during their initial disappearance.
     
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  2. fridaybaker

    fridaybaker Well-Known Member

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    The whole "paintball" story is problematic to me. It's so convenient. It's the only instance Chase mentions when asked about whether he's ever been in/driven the Trooper. It sort of reeks to high heaven. So, his DNA is found in the Trooper, albeit as a "minor" contributor. CM say something to the effect that, why yes, he has been in the Trooper, in fact, only a few weeks ago, to go paintballing with Joey. Now, really? In the years you've known Joey, you've only ever been in it once, and to go paintballing...a few weeks before the murder. Call me strange, but I can't really imagine a scenario where they get in Joey's truck together and do that. Meet there, yes. Drive together? Hmmmm. So, if that really were the case, wouldn't that be where the DNA would show up? On the passenger side?

    Conveniently, when they drive together, they take Joey's vehicle. Conveniently, there is no corroborating evidence. It's like so much of the evidence in this case. DNA evidence of Chase having been in the vehicle of those "friends" who just happen to have been murdered, just at the time Joey is changing his accounting system (to let Chase write himself checks), whilst his phone is pinging at the site where the body is buried (a site to which he has connections) etc., etc., etc. Now, Chase says "we went paintballing, that's why my DNA is there". No one else's, except for Joey and his family, although, strangely enough, the family's DNA shows up in less volume than Chase's.

    Well, it turns out that the DNA is on the DRIVER'S side. Uh oh. Now we have to talk "transfer". So, although he did go paintballing with Joey, in Joey's truck, which would involve, I would think, quite an opportunity to deposit some direct DNA in said truck, on the passenger side, there wasn't.... any. Yes, he sat in the truck, to and from a paintballing session, without contributing ANY DNA on the passenger side.

    However, he apparently shook hands with Joey or something and, voila! DNA on the driver's side (or, parts of the truck more consistent with the driver than the passenger.) And how do we know that they shook hands, because Chase Merritt said so. (Yes, I know not literally, but figuratively.)

    It's sort of like the Quickbooks/checks evidence. Chase is writing himself checks out of someone else's account. Not being on the account, he's not entitled to write checks. But, Joey "told me I could do it". Again, we're either asked to believe Chase, or think that everything is just a coincidence -like his DNA being the only other contributor in the Trooper, other than the family.

    And so it goes. The incredible number of things that tie Chase Merritt to the murders that are coincidences or just "explained away" by the defense, without any proof is unbelievable to me. Literally.

    No, I don't tend to go back and forth here in active "dissection of evidence", but I do read all the posts regarding said dissection. I just don't think much of it to be compelling up until this point. I'm always considering it, though, and open to changing my opinion about how this murder happened. Right now, I see a vast and compelling constellation of circumstantial bits of evidence that points to Chase Merritt that remains overwhelming.
     
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  3. fridaybaker

    fridaybaker Well-Known Member

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    But, Missy, it depends on where you wipe? Or, maybe where you "more thoroughly wipe"? Hmmm.
     
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  4. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully ask you to look at the DNA evidence... it is not as you say or imply in this post ... I get what your point is, but there is more to the DNA ... some unidentified, some to complex to figure out... and never was Chase's more than all of the McStay's.

    I can also understand that some won't get the "transfer DNA" or just won't buy it. IMO it's a real possibility, even according to the State witness today.

    The fact that they couldn't find his 6 week old DNA on the passenger door, therefore the conclusion is he is lying, even the State didn't try to say that today. They didn't ask the witness why it wasn't there... why do you suppose that is? And actually they did find DNA on the door, it was a mixture of 3 individuals, which was to complex to make conclusions (I had never heard this before LOL)

    Anyway, I hope you take the time to look at it for yourself :) There was way more than what was posted here ;-) and even the photo's that I posted... there was way more explanation than what Daugherty wrote on the overhead screen.
     
  5. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    I will refer you to my last post LOL No one said there was NO DNA... it was there. Just not Chase's.

    There is no criminal good info to be able to wipe their own DNA off and leave everyone else's. JMO? lol
     
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  6. fridaybaker

    fridaybaker Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about this. No, Chase is not on trial for being a passenger. But there is certainly a line of thought that says that when confronted about the possibility of LE finding some trace of him in the vehicle in general, he would need to make it known that he had been in the Trooper in a legitimate capacity. Hence, a story about how he went somewhere with Joey not long ago.

    I also don't think the state necessarily has to prove that Chase drove the Trooper, only that it would be likely to conclude that he did drive it to the border based on various sets of evidence -DNA, phone ping patterns, etc. This is all part of proving that he did the murder.

    Maybe I am off base, but that's my thinking on it.
     
  7. Force Ten

    Force Ten Well-Known Member

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    I was always curious, if Chase didn't drive the Trooper, why is his DNA on the 4 wheel drive control? It's a bit hard to fathom that Joseph went 4 wheeling that afternoon, or anytime really.

    Still don't know where the Trooper was parked (hidden) for 3-4 days. And just what about all that dirt on the passenger side floor?
     
  8. fridaybaker

    fridaybaker Well-Known Member

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    Missy, I will go back and look more in depth as you suggest, but this isn't the first time I've heard about DNA. I've been on a jury where DNA was a large part of the case. I do understand your point about transfer DNA, and I certainly wouldn't argue that it doesn't happen. I'm not doing so here.

    I am just too tired to continue this evening, but will try to address this tomorrow.

    Thanks for all your great posts.

    Goodnight everyone!
     
  9. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* I don't know how to make it any clearer ...

    This was a collective swab. IIRC 2 swabs were taken ... they swabbed the gear shift... used the same swab and swabbed the a/c controls... used the same swab and swabbed the 4wheel drive lever... used the same swab and swabbed the radio controls ... used the same swab and swabbed the heater. There is no way to know where that DNA was actually picked up from.

    He was included as a possible trace contributor on that collective swab odds someone else could be included ... 1 in 4500 African Americans 1 in 3300 Caucasions 1 in 12000 Hispanics

    I'm actually curious if they tested both of the swabs.
     
  10. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    Have a good night :)

    My suggestion if you go back and listen... just fast forward to where they get to the items tested for DNA. Unfortunately, there really wasn't a lot that they tested and the testimony about those items is not that long :)
     
  11. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    On the Trooper... that is one thing that I don't know if anyone has been able to come up with a "good" explanation lol I wonder what the State's theory is?
     
  12. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    it may not have been hidden at all. I suspect it was parked at the McStay house at least the first night.
     
  13. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    It seems it is worth leading our poor old Circumstantial pack horse once more to the trough ;)

    The key thing to remember is that each point of circumstantial evidence does not prove the case one way or the other. And we ought to resist the temptation to speculate each point away. Especially DNA cannot prove 100% whether CM drove the Trooper or not.

    But whose case does the DNA evidence support (if anyone's)?

    If I were a Judge, the first thing I would note is that we don't have any reliable evidence that Chase was ever a passenger in the trooper. We have only a bare statement from him pre-trial, which is not subject to cross examination or testing. It needs to be tested given what the prosecution now know. Further the forensics don't provide any support for the idea. There could be good reasons why this is, but the Court's role is not to speculate. So we say merely that the DNA does not corroborate it, and infer nothing more. So personally I would not give any weight to the idea of Chase as passenger unless he testifies.

    On the other hand, the DNA can support the idea of Chase as driver. Something Chase himself denies ever happened.

    But I do think that is the best we can say about it.

    Transfer DNA is possible, but there is no way the defence can prove that happened, or that it is more likely.

    I think that is broadly where we are. The DNA is nowhere near slam dunk evidence. But it does have some probative value IMO, having regard to other evidence in the case.
     
  14. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    It's all about him being linked with multiple big moments in the case

    The video of his truck, the ping on a tower near the graves, DNA on the drivers side, the creating of the deleted cheques, the backdating etc etc
     
  15. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    RSBM

    I think you have hit on something quite interesting here. Personally I think CM is a highly unreliable, dishonest witness, based on everything we know. IMO we should be slow to believe any of his claims unless they check out independently.

    But what is certainly curious here is that he made an exculpatory statement in advance of forensics, which then doesn't fit the forensics.

    Could just be another unlucky moment for Chase of course.
     
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  16. ehenson88

    ehenson88 Well-Known Member

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    If Chases DNA on the steering wheel is touch DNA, then it is problematic to me that there was more of his DNA on it than Summer's or the boys. Wouldn't there be a mixture of the whole family's DNA on it if it was touch DNA? As well as anyone else Joey possibly touched? It's not too far off to think that Joey probably touched the kids that morning before he left...
     
  17. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    What date was this?
     
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  18. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    And backdated it.

    The smoking gun of the case IMO
     
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  19. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Chase may not have 'posted' anything in his own name, that we know of at that time. But he is a grifter and a long time conman. If he wanted to plant a few rumors, he certainly knows how to do so.

    We have seen 2 recent cases here, where the killers started rumors about their victims, before the murders happened. They spread negative stories about them, quietly, to friends and relatives. So when those victims went missing, all over FB and twitter, there were people 'in the know' , saying they were druggies, unstable, etc etc...

    The same thing may have happened here. JMO
     
  20. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    This is a fascinating area IMO

    On two of the cases I have followed in depth, the defence spread significant misinformation online. In one case this was perpetuated by family members & PR. In the other, by PR agency, influencers, hangers on and the perp directly.

    One thing I discovered when I started getting into reading the primary case materials was how often I didn't understand basic facts of the case.

    A primary vector for this is that journalists, bloggers etc frequently take quotes from the defence team etc which is based on misinfo rather than fact.

    But because the journalists themselves tend not to follow primary sources, they don't realise they have been played
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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