Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by dalsglen, Aug 18, 2021.
Never is a long, long time. But you may be right.
But do they do all these risky things with their 1-yr old child? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.
The family on the beach had a 4 yr old and a 7 yr old. Even a swimming pool is dangerous for kids that young, if the parents are not attentive. Ocean beaches more so, since they have breakers. I was recently at that same beach with my very attentive wife, 6 yr old granddaughter, and dog. The waves were only 2', no worries. It's not the beach that was so dangerous, it was the conditions on that day. Other people hike the Savage Lundy trail safely, but not in hot weather. Same trail, different conditions. Their bodies were found on that trail. Res ipsa loquitur. MOO.
OK..we MAY never know on accidental poisoning
Do you have a link to either of these comments by any chance? TIA.
The obvious answer (MOO) >>>They didn't perceive the hike as risky. The real quandary is this>> was there a point in the hike where they QUESTIONED that?? MOO>> There certainly must have been a point where they had thoughts of turning around...but decided to venture on because the thought of turning back as too daunting.
Hmmm.... that's interesting. I looked it up earlier, all the trails were closed for a couple of years after the 2018 Ferguson Fire, but were reopened, maybe early this year. I also read that off highway vehicles are allowed at some times, but because of fire danger they do close it to OHV's during the summer. I couldn't find past information on that though, and it's now closed to everything due to the "unknown hazard". Perhaps JG planned to drive down the HCT and park near the bottom, then hike around down by the river and drive back up. But finding the gate locked, decided to hike the part he planned to drive. I don't know how difficult it is to drive, there was a review of hiking down the HCT and meeting full size 4WD vehicles coming up, so at least it could be done in the recent past. MOO.
I'm certain they grew alarmed as it got hotter and the baby reacted as babies do when they are uncomfortable, and their water dwindled. They could well have been past the halfway point in miles when that happened, as the first half is almost all downhill, fast and easy. Going back or going forward, the second half is uphill, a lot harder and slower, and the day is just getting hotter. So they may have realized that it was too late to turn around, and pressed on. My take on their climb up the SLT is they thought they had no better option, and their loved ones were depending on them. It shows drive and perseverance to push yourself to your limit. MOO
I don't think the majority necessarily believe there is a "nearly unanimous disbelief" either! I certainly am of the opinion and mindset that this is not a murder or drug related incident, but rather an unintended heatstroke tragedy. Maybe a poll is in order! However, at this point I just hope that the complete results of all the tests with be revealed soon!
As to the bolded above, I think BOTH those things were true, sadly enough.
I think they underestimated the danger, which is understandable. The reviews of that hiking area make it sound difficult, but certainly not lethal. I don't think they took into account the recent fire damage, which took away all sources of shade, in which to rest and cool down.
And there seemed to be a recent spike in heAt on that particular few days.
On top of underestimating the danger, I think some things went wrong, which disrupted their original timeline, keeping them on the trail longer, making them more susceptible to the heat and causing a domino effect of maladies. JMO
There are quite a few pictures of them hiking, along with their baby girl and their loyal fur baby. It was what they routinely did as a family.
So I am not at all surprised that they took them on that hike. I do wish they had done the hike alone first, just the 2 of them, just for safety's sake. But hindsight is 20/20.
Hi, I'm new to WBS. I've been reading all the threads so far on the JG/EC tragedy. I tend to agree with those who have posted (so to speak) out of the box suggestions in other words not the obvious HS. I believe it may be a combination (including HS) of things that befell the family. Like others have posted about the footprints I wonder about that too. But what if a drone was used to harm he family. They were forced to do the trail by an unknown operator with malicious intent. In 2015 a Connetticutt teenager added a gun feature to his drone but LE became aware. There's a video on Youtube that shows this thing firing. I am not a tech saavy person nor am I interested in drones. However, the Russell Hill/Carol Clay mystery made me aware that drones can be used for recreation so then I started thinking about them anytime a news story came about drones. Apparently they can spray seeds from above. So why not an aresol. Can a drone also have technology to block cell phones. Obviously by the time they got to where SAR found them later their phone may have been damaged by the heat. I'm sure JG had the latest technology for his phone since his profession was such. I tend to agree that this family was delayed. They would have gone to their vehicle in the morning on Saturday like 9AM. This is all my opinion. Any thoughts?
new here. messed up my posting. let me try again.
i haven't seen quite a few pictures of them hiking with their baby girl. if they routinely did so, does anyone know what hikes they took the baby on prior to this one?
Sure. Snipping if you hit a paywall.
“My thought initially was perhaps the car veered off the trail,” said Mr. Jeffe, who cut short a trip to Croatia when he learned that the bodies had been found. “People were going to go out and look.”
Family’s Death in Sierra National Forest Is Shrouded in Mystery
Sunday’s outing with the family dog, who was also found dead at the site, was supposed to be a day hike, Jeffe said.
You make a good point about SJ - I can’t find anywhere in the media that he says he knew they were going hiking on that day. He is only speculating like the rest of us. At the time he was on holiday in Croatia.
Would you call a friend on the weekend to discuss a hike when you know they’re on hols? Wouldn’t you discuss it with your child’s nanny or rental manager as they are locals?
Our only evidence so far that they intended to do that hike is they were discovered on the SL trail, Jon accessed information relating to HC trail on Saturday, Ellen posted a pic of a backpack (that isn’t available online anymore), and a sighting of the vehicle travelling in the direction of the trail at 7.45am - yes it sounds simple.
But let’s suppose you knew the couple. Let’s suppose you had spoken to them the day before and they hadn’t mentioned going on a hike. Wouldn’t you think that odd?
And, since you know them very well, you also know they wouldn’t go anywhere without taking all the precautions everyone has mentioned in this debate? Yes - they might do it as a couple - but not with their daughter and dog. And what if you knew that Jon was actually over-cautious and very protective of his family? Wouldn’t that hike, in that heat seem very ambitious?
Yes, we are all fallible, and the events that have been used as examples of human error/dangers of nature are tragic and a cause for consideration in this case. But the similarities and our conceptions of those events are all based on what we’ve read in the media. We don’t know the people involved or what’s going on in their lives. The woman on the hike with her baby was with a group of others. If she’d tried it alone the outcome may have been much worse. The family who took their children to the beach didn’t take buckets and spades - it was known to be dangerous and they made that choice anyway. A very sad and tragic choice - but they were not Jon and Ellen.
I’m asking these questions of those more experienced hikers/walkers on here who say they’ve taken their families to ostensibly dangerous places. Do you think the alleged hike taken by Jon and Ellen is a poor decision - not apportioning blame to them - but is it something you would do given the same set of circumstances?
SJ says ‘You have to figure it was a day hike’ - that suggests to me he didn’t know, he was just surmising.
We can’t put ourselves in the Gerrish’s shoes because we don’t know them. Yes there are people who undertake many dangerous, exhilarating activities - they don’t usually do it with babies and dogs. And if we did know them we might be very surprised they would do something so out-of-character.
This is a brilliant explanation and totally plausible except - this was not a popular place at this time of year. We don’t know if there were any people frolicking in the river - and if there were people there they could probably attest they’d seen Jon, Ellen, Miju and Oski doing the same. As far as I’m aware there wasn’t anyone who saw them anywhere on that hike. MOO
If we had a poll I would vote heat stroke.
I have hiked many desert trails over the years, and I know that heat exhaustion can occur very suddenly, and once it sets in it can affect decision making. Heat stroke can soon follow.
A hike seems very doable in cooler morning temperatures but the situation can quickly go bad when the temperature spikes, especially when you have an uphill climb.
Years ago on one of my desert hikes I made some bad decisions when I became overheated. I couldn’t figure out if I should go backward which was a longer distance or keep going forward, which was shorter in distance but uphill. I didn’t want to drink the last of my water because I thought I should save it because I still had so far to go. At one point I thought I could see shade off the trail when there was none. I reasoned if I closed my eyes and rested for a few minutes I would have the strength to continue hiking.
I managed to hike two more miles that day and made my way out, but a couple other hikers in the area had to be rescued.
I understand how quickly and unexpectedly heat can overtake even experienced hikers, and it affects decision making.
Incidentally, on my most recent desert hike my companion and I passed two different couples who were hiking with babies, on a very strenuous, mostly uphill trail, in the mid day heat.