CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by dalsglen, Aug 18, 2021.

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  1. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    You are correct IMO about having WATER. However LE has said there was no other source only what they had. This is one of the reasons this is so strange. Your are correct its not possible otherwise. LE works what they have.
     


  2. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Well, that they willingly did that hike with little water, a baby and a dog leans toward the ludicrous. So rather than believing they were not of sound judgment, and guilty of child and dog neglect and abuse, at this point I tend toward going with the nefarious element theory. It’s the only thing that makes sense to me. Just because there’s no evidence of that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Jmo
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  3. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for pointing out the Himalya trip. Then again they didn't have the baby and dog with them either. The Gobi desert trip one can say that the couple did with support. Even on the Himalya trip he had others with him. Yes pushing the envelope but to a certain point, however not to the point of no return (so to speak.)
     
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  4. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out. The fact is that authorities closed this area until very recently this tells me that the river water had a higher content of the toxin than what was in the location you are speaking of in your area. That is why the authorities in your area didn't close it otherwise they would have.
     
  5. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    That’s very odd IMO. How would a magazine columnist know what it feels like to die?
     
  6. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    I haven’t seen those photos, but IIRC they had gone on guided trips. Those tell you what to bring and what to wear. No matter, on this hike they were not at all set up to match the conditions.
     
  7. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    IME a trek in the Himalayas would generally involve a guide. They arrange overnights in the mountains, etc. You can easily arrange one locally if you don’t come with one from the US. I happen to know this because, although I couldn’t follow through, I’d made all the arrangements to go on a trek with a Nepali guide company.
     
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  8. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    The area was a potential crime scene, and at the very least LE were evidently trying to trace the family’s path. IMO it would have been closed even if not for the toxins.
     
  9. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I don’t use onX, what temperatures were forecasted for that day according to that app?
     
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  10. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Verified EMT

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    I have gone on many guided trips with several different organizations. Some have been hiking trips in extreme conditions, some were winter canoe trips in single-digit temperatures, others were extended cycling trips in rough terrain.

    In each guided trip the equipment is either provided for you or you are provided with a list of required equipment and clothing. Everything is checked before the start and if you do not have proper clothing or equipment you don’t go. End of story.

    A guided trip is completely different than hiking on your own.
     
  11. lotus777

    lotus777 Well-Known Member

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    But it wasn't 109 degrees throughout the entire hike. It was in the 70s when they started out.
     
  12. ItalyReader

    ItalyReader Well-Known Member

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    The temp of 74-76 was just at the beginning around 745am.

    The sheriff’s report on the Mariposa County FB page states that already after the 2nd mile of 6+ miles, the temp had reached a minimum of 92-99 degrees.

    Presumably that means by maybe 9-10am MOO it was already 92-99 degrees, since from the truck to that point was 2 miles going downhill.

    I can paste that heat by distance traveled info here too if anyone doesn’t have access to Facebook.
     
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  13. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    bbm
    Yes, please!
     
  14. MrsEmmaPeel

    MrsEmmaPeel Well-Known Member

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    Like Kreycik's case, this case reminds me of two things. 1. Digital reality is not the same as nature's reality. Focusing on all the things digital reality offers (spiffy maps, waypoints) will keep you from learning the truth about nature and life. For instance, temperature as a number on a screen vs what it feels like to a dog's paws. Long-sleeves are cooler than sleeveless . . .

    2. What I want may not correspond to what is possible. This understanding comes with maturity. I want a free and easy early morning hike, light on my feet, walking quickly. To be free in nature. But wait, there's my baby and her new carrier that needs adjusting, my wife and what she wants, do I have the map downloaded, where's the Camelback, where's Oski's leash and water bowl, snacks, hurry it's getting late, do you have the baby bottle. . . .

    I realize some of you can't see this, but this site has given me deeper understanding of the world we live in and what Covid has done to our sense of reality. There is a desperation to feel normal and be who we once were. Those days are never coming back.
     
  15. LifeIsAMystery

    LifeIsAMystery Well-Known Member

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    First person experience / close call per the article.
     
  16. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Thank You. I wish we could stickie this to the front page. I did read this but didn’t study the details of the statement. He was very concise.

    From the statement above (bbm):
    “Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski then began the steep incline section of the Savage Lundy trail. This section of the trail is a south/southeast facing slope exposing the trail to constant sunlight. There is very little shade along this section of trail due to the Ferguson Fire of 2018. The temperatures along that section of trail ranged between 107-109 degrees from 12:50pm -2:50pm cooling slightly from 4:50pm to 8:50pm from 105-89 degrees. The family hiked approximately 2 miles up the Savage Lundy trail.”

    So LE possibly believes they may have started the S-L climb between 12:50pm - 2:50pm. (?) They may know the possible speed, but not how long the breaks were.

    We could possibly map it with that data. (I may have missed it if anyone has already.)

    I believe they knew they were in trouble as they approached the switchbacks, but the choice was to get to the vehicle, not back to the river.

    For the hikers, or anyone who may know, would hiking back to the river make sense (presuming they were thinking clearly, not affected yet by heat exhaustion)?

    Stay by the river overnight, if heat and exhaustion were the two main issues? Rest and hike at dawn?
     
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  17. LifeIsAMystery

    LifeIsAMystery Well-Known Member

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    People have different relationships to risk, even hikers, parents and pet owners. What Makes Risk Takers Tempt Fate? (nationalgeographic.com) What may be unfathomable to one person might be both appealing and rewarding to another. Close calls may push some to become more cautious, others, not. Some people are drawn to adventure travel and riskier activities. Sometimes there are misjudgments re: risk. I think they hiked fast and light JG posted about climbs. On that day, rather than exhilaration and a sense of having "pushed through", the day sadly ended in tragedy. I imagine one's risk tolerance impacts what factors are deemed relevant and how they are weighed up. As climate change causes temps to rise, there really needs to be public education about the dangers of brain damage and death re: heat IMO. Closing trails when there are extreme heat warnings may help prevent deaths to some degree. Again, MOO.

    I am not entirely convinced that they even tried to call 911. They may have never truly understood what danger they were in. As HE progresses to HS it impacts cognition.
     
  18. HannahJJJ

    HannahJJJ Well-Known Member

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    Moo. I have always tended to believe nefarious element or mental health issues (perhaps converging on marriage relationship, Moo). Imo/Moo, in this most unusual case--I believe the Sheriff said he hadn't seen one like it in his twenty plus years--one has to look deeper than the 8 or so mile hike in 100 plus temperatures. Imo, Moo, of course, go deeper. Of course. Moo. All Moo.
     
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  19. Rocky Mountain Hi

    Rocky Mountain Hi Well-Known Member

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    While there are good points in terms of plans one makes in one's head working out differently in reality, I don't see the relevance to Covid. The kind of scene you describe could have happened before Covid, and similar ones did, though fortunately most didn't end in death.

    But people overestimate their capacity to hike, the strenuousness of a hike, the weather (too cold or too hot, or changing from overcast to rain). They may overestimate children's ability to keep up or a pet's ability to handle warmer weather. They may fail to bring enough water or food, taking only snacks for an outing that for whatever reason lasts longer than expected. And family hikes are different from individual or couple hikes. There are more members to care for and keep an eye on. A lot of this tends to be learned through experience, and trail-and-error, unless one has more experienced people to consult with.

    JG and EC had been hiking in the area for years, though we don't know for sure if they had much experience with doing so in high temps. You'd think that they would, but this may have been the first time they took the baby and dog.

    I see this as more global-warming related, than Covid-related. People planning outdoor recreation in the future will have to be more mindful of the potential for temperature spikes and the like.
     
  20. MrsEmmaPeel

    MrsEmmaPeel Well-Known Member

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    If you haven't been affected by Covid and its changes to our daily life, you're luckier than I and my friends and family. J and G moved to Mariposa in part because of Covid, as I've read. Until fairly recently Public and Social Life shut down, including yoga studios, restaurants, libraries, playgroups. Anything that may have helped the GC's adjust to their new life. Life migrated online. Covid, imho, is just one of the factors in this Perfect Storm. I believe failure to adjust to our changing world-- albeit CChange and Covid-- played a part here.

    While all of you are wishing they'd been better prepared for their hike, I've been wishing they'd had friends with a child who could have come over for brunch and spent a lovely day around their pool. ie. Life before Covid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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