CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by dalsglen, Aug 18, 2021.

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  1. rahod1

    rahod1 Well-Known Member

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    BBM and Snipped
    True.. all we'll ever know is their decision to undertake this hike and the preparations they took. However, they could have had an epiphany...a moment of realization of impending doom and salvaged this journey into the depths of hell. Yet, they sojourned on. That for me is the ultimate mystery. There's a word for this..and no one here has used it for good reason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021


  2. Lilibet

    Lilibet Well-Known Member

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    Heat was so obvious, it did seem strange it wasn’t mentioned at first. Determining heat as a cause is kind of a process of eliminating other causes, so I wonder if the sheriff was just trying to reassure the public how thorough they were being about investigating all possible causes, rather than implying an immediate assumption about it being heat-related. But yes, you’d think it would have been on the short list of causes he mentioned.
     
  3. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are correct. I mistakenly and automatically thought of this hiker who ignored calls from SAR. I was just as you are pointing out that it had been debunked. After reading about the tragedy here with the JG/EC family my mind went straight to "Oh no that's not safe!" Thanks for pointing this out.
     
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  4. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    A thought: If JG/EC were alive they would say what actually happened and why they were on this hike in this temperature with their vulnerable dependents. So its possible they wouldn't be charged if they were trying escape from a potential problem of some kind. However, this hike was not survivable.
     
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  5. 5W's

    5W's Well-Known Member

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    Lets try posting this again hopefully it works this time around.
    I personally think when it comes to the strange or bizarre aspects of a case, the mystery of what happened is what draws my attention, other factors such as race, attractiveness, or socio-economic status don't matter. The more mysterious the case the longer it will be etched in the public's mind. Take for example 9 yr. old Asha Degree's disappearance in 2000. Or the young black man who disappeared while with a work crew as he was behind the others, ( I don't remember the name at the moment) change had fallen out of his pocket as if he had been turned upside down, part of his clothing had been caught in the fence next to the roadway where his crew was working in a rural area, anyways so many bizarre aspects to his case even though he disappeared in the 90's (I believe) we still wonder what happened to him. Just like the JG/EC Family "what made them be found where they were?" "How did they get there? Its not possible they walked as far as they did without dying sooner!
     
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  6. Megnut

    Megnut Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible they powered faster than we imagine and by the time the temperatures became uncomfortable, they felt they were close to water and pushed on, only to have the dog or baby quickly fall into distress? So staying put in the water was not viable, their only hope -- to reach the car and get help? It couldn't have been a static or linear process for them -- still, if they made it a couple miles before it got hellish, maybe the water seemed like the solution, to hunker down, so they pushed forward, until an emergency changed everything.

    JMO
     
  7. HannahJJJ

    HannahJJJ Well-Known Member

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    Moo. It "appears" that JG was the One who mapped/researched the hike. If it "was" his intention that morning that they do this specific hike, it stands to reason that he at least approved of what EC was wearing/gave some direction as to appropriate clothing for such a hike and the supplies they should take. Moo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  8. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    IMO most women don't get apparel directives from the men in their life for sports activities. Women hikers with any kind of experience know what's appropriate to wear in sunny hot conditions on a trail if that's on the schedule. Same with guys. They may get it wrong, but outfit choice is on them. The biggest red flag in all of this IMO: no hats.

    I'm a little concerned that it's so difficult to wrap a head around two people making decisions which created a perfect storm of a catastrophe, that we run the risk of piling the responsibility on one person. There were two people here. The responsibility was shared.
     
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  9. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Article from a few days ago, no new information, bbm:

    “That final hike was supposed to be a day-long family outing with the dog, Oski, an 8-year-old Aussie/Akita mix. The dog was also killed.

    They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there,” Briese said at the time.”
    Redirect Notice

    In the bolded text he referred to them in the present tense, so that quote may have been given between 2:00 am —(ETA: fixed time) 9:30 am during the search?

    The first post on the original thread began with them being found deceased. I was curious as to what was initially reported.

    ETA: I’m interested in this from the viewpoint of what the SAR teams may have been told. How that input may have been a factor in the search.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  10. Lex Parsimoniae

    Lex Parsimoniae Well-Known Member

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    The transcript from the last presser says: "Tuesday, August 17th, at 9:30am, Search and Rescue teams located Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski approximately 1.6 miles from their vehicle on the Savage Lundy Trail deceased." Initially MSM said they were found at 11 am, but apparently that was an error. There was more to your bolded quote too: “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike,” Briese said of their final hike together." That makes it sound like his comment came after they were found, with just day hiking gear. I think it likely that it didn't become a big news story until they were found, too. So I'm thinking his use of present tense was just an error in the transition between the search and the recovery phases. MOO.
     
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  11. LifeIsAMystery

    LifeIsAMystery Well-Known Member

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    I think they liked to travel light and fast and on that day it was not possible. I think they were overconfident re: heat and that was a big part of the misjudgments that day. Very sad, hopefully others will learn from this. But, since this happened after all the Kreycik publicity, think it will take more of a directed campaign. Phrases like "brain damage," "CPS" and "animal cruelty charges" as being in play and trails being announced as closed when there are extreme heat warnings might chip away at some of the denial. Where I live people start hiking up a mountain close to dusk in flip flops and have to be rescued more often than you would believe. Often with no supplies or water in high heat and humidity. People think of what they want to do, what fits with their other activities and commitments (Kreycik was delayed by an Amazon return) and not much else seems to register.
     
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  12. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Thank you—I corrected the time found in my post based on what you pointed out.
     
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  13. Lex Parsimoniae

    Lex Parsimoniae Well-Known Member

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    They started about 8 am, rested and ready to hike, temperature in the low 70's. It's all downhill to the river, so that would be the fastest, easiest, most comfortable part of the hike. At 3 mph, they could have gotten to the river in an hour. Down there, at that time, it's estimated it was 92F. I read a recommendation that babies shouldn't be exposed to temperatures over 90F, and at that temperature we wet down our dog to keep her comfortable during a walk. So from then on, it's getting increasingly dangerous for the baby and dog as the temperature soared to as much as 109F. Some of the trees along the river survived the fire, so there would be some shade, which would have helped. A cave or recess in the rock would also provide shade and cooler temps, if there was one. But the river was there for sure, immersing in the water, or using evaporation on your skin or clothes would have kept them alive. They would even have to be careful not to get the baby too cool. I don't think they did this, if they had, they might have started up the Savage Lundy trail, but realized they were better off staying at the river until it cooled off. MOO
     
  14. Megnut

    Megnut Well-Known Member

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    Staying by the river and hiking back out at or before sun up might've saved lives but IMO time in the water may have buffered the mounting heat, but the two things the river couldn't yield-- a veterinarian or a pediatrician. I think they had no choice but to make a run for it, desperate for aid. IMO the advanced hour, the advance mercury, the advanced exertion created this tragic end.

    JMO
     
  15. Han

    Han Well-Known Member

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    The unanswered question. Why did they find themselves in an emergency situation? The water they took was completely inadequate for a long hike. My participation here has convinced me of that much.

    IMO we know some of what EC and JG did and we know what it appears they intended to do.
    • Their clothing
    • Their choice to take Miju and Oski
    • 2 1/2 liters of water
    • The high temperatures in the afternoon
    All indicate IMO that they intended a short hike in the morning down and back the wide OHV road their possible destination Marble Point, not a hike up a narrow trail choked by chapparal in extreme temperatures.

    Yes, something lead to a different result but I doubt we will ever know what it was unless analysis of the phone reveals something. And so the things I’ve listed lead to everyone’s death from extreme heat.

    Searching for a trail on an app, even as recently as the day before, doesn’t prove intention to take the trail. It could just as easily lead to a decision not to take the full loop. At least they were aware the SLT existed when they apparently had to change their plans. It’s regrettable the trail was so inadequate for return from the canyon and that they weren’t prepared for an extreme contingency.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
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  16. lotus777

    lotus777 Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree... I think you're mischaracterizing one partner asking the partner who's likely done more research of the hike in question as "women getting apparel directives."

    If JG did most of the research for this hike (which he may have based on his mapping the trail), it's certainly reasonable that EC might have asked him what he could tell her about the weather or appropriate apparel. Same if the female partner had planned it. Sharing that kind of information is normal. Of course we don't know if this is what happened, but it's not unlikely.
     
  17. MrsEmmaPeel

    MrsEmmaPeel Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the nod, @Lex Parsimoniae. I'm a longtime Daily Mail reader which is where I saw the story. "Mysterious" and "Unexplained" are always hype. (Daily Mail, after all.) I also suspected the Sheriff Briese didn't know as much about heatstroke as I did after 1000 WS posts on Philip Kreycik. (wink, wink)

    The only things that made this story newsworthy -imo- were the overall attractiveness and privilege of the young family, deaths of a baby and dog, and no witnesses. People had been dying all summer of heat-related accidents, and for me, this fit the bill. Had just one person made it out alive, we wouldn't be here today.

    (Before you judge me for reading the Daily Mail, I also read the Washington Post, the LA Times, The Guardian, The New Yorker, and most recently all seven volumes of In Search of Lost Time. Human nature is human nature wherever you find compelling stories. )
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    He changed his mind later about the gear and the amount you need and don't need [water would be key].
     
  19. MrsEmmaPeel

    MrsEmmaPeel Well-Known Member

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    I believe LE deeply regretted the sensationalism of their first press releases and redeemed themselves by keeping tight lips thereafter. They seemed to wise up, which is to their credit.
     
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  20. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    They were in the middle of heat wave. This wouldn't require asking someone else.
    I keep coming back to the hats. The no hats. In oppressive heat and sunshine. That's a choice. No one needed to be asking for guidance on whether a hat was necessary. It's common sense. And you forgot your hat? Turn right around and don't step on that trail.
    I wonder if the baby was wearing a hat.....
    IMO
     
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