CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[Speculaytor]

They were in the middle of heat wave. This wouldn't require asking someone else.
I keep coming back to the hats. The no hats. In oppressive heat and sunshine. That's a choice. No one needed to be asking for guidance on whether a hat was necessary. It's common sense. And you forgot your hat? Turn right around and don't step on that trail.
I wonder if the baby was wearing a hat.....
IMO

Oh NO, they weren't wearing hats? I have been away from the thread for a bit, sorry if I have missed something here??

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

The unanswered question. Why did they find themselves in an emergency situation? The water they took was completely inadequate for a long hike. My participation here has convinced me of that much.

IMO we know some of what EC and JG did and we know what it appears they intended to do.

• Their clothing
• Their choice to take Miju and Oski
• 2 1/2 liters of water
• The high temperatures in the afternoon

All indicate IMO that they intended a short hike in the morning down and back the wide OHV road their possible destination Marble Point, not a hike up a narrow trail choked by chapparal in extreme temperatures.

Yes, something lead to a different result but I doubt we will ever know what it was unless analysis of the phone reveals something. And so the things I’ve listed lead to everyone’s death from extreme heat.

Searching for a trail on an app, even as recently as the day before, doesn’t prove intention to take the trail. It could just as easily lead to a decision not to take the full loop. At least they were aware the SLT existed when they apparently had to change their plans. It’s regrettable the trail was so inadequate for return from the canyon and that they weren’t prepared for an extreme contingency.

He didn't just search for a trail on an app- he placed waypoints on the map, marking the loop. From the transcript of the sheriff's last presser: "On Saturday night, August 14th, Jonathan used an app on his phone to plot out the route of travel for the Hites Cove hike. We know while using the app, he only entered “way points” or point to point mapping, although this does not calculate the exact trail mileage or elevation changes. This was not uncommon; Jonathan used a few different trail-mapping apps and frequently took hikes."
That's evidence he planned to hike the loop, the track evidence and location of the bodies confirms he did. The GPS in his phone would show him where he was in relation to those waypoints, they are used for navigation. "A waypoint is an intermediate point or place on a route or line of travel, a stopping point or point at which course is changed." He most likely used them to mark his start/finish and the turns he wanted to make. MOO

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

thanks for the nod, @Lex Parsimoniae. I'm a longtime Daily Mail reader which is where I saw the story. "Mysterious" and "Unexplained" are always hype. (Daily Mail, after all.) I also suspected the Sheriff Briese didn't know as much about heatstroke as I did after 1000 WS posts on Philip Kreycik. (wink, wink)

The only things that made this story newsworthy -imo- were the overall attractiveness and privilege of the young family, deaths of a baby and dog, and no witnesses. People had been dying all summer of heat-related accidents, and for me, this fit the bill. Had just one person made it out alive, we wouldn't be here today.

(Before you judge me for reading the Daily Mail, I also read the Washington Post, the LA Times, The Guardian, The New Yorker, and most recently all seven volumes of In Search of Lost Time. Human nature is human nature wherever you find compelling stories. )

Well, kudos, you learned from the Kreycik case. I followed that too, just casually wondering how someone disappears in a suburban park. You have my admiration for wielding Occam's Razor like a ninja wields a katana!

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

They were in the middle of heat wave. This wouldn't require asking someone else.
I keep coming back to the hats. The no hats. In oppressive heat and sunshine. That's a choice. No one needed to be asking for guidance on whether a hat was necessary. It's common sense. And you forgot your hat? Turn right around and don't step on that trail.
I wonder if the baby was wearing a hat.....
IMO

I agree. No hats in a hot climate?!

 

[lotus777]

They were in the middle of heat wave. This wouldn't require asking someone else.
I keep coming back to the hats. The no hats. In oppressive heat and sunshine. That's a choice. No one needed to be asking for guidance on whether a hat was necessary. It's common sense. And you forgot your hat? Turn right around and don't step on that trail.
I wonder if the baby was wearing a hat.....
IMO

You implied there's no reason for women to ask their partner about clothing for a hike. My point was that asking the more prepared party makes perfect sense, not that it was required in this case.

Many threads ago someone mentioned that EC and JG probably lived in almost constant air conditioning. To say with certainty that they were aware of the heat wave, I think we'd have to know how often they left the house and whether they paid regular attention to the weather/news. Their friends said they hiked on weekends, but that doesn't mean they hiked every weekend or during the heat wave leading up to that weekend. Some people do news blackouts and "digital detoxes." It's easier to live in a bubble than many realize. But I do think it more likely they were aware of it and overestimated the abilities of the human body.

 

[Bekind89]

Hello all,
I have been following this sad and baffling story from the beginning, as we all have on this thread. I have grown very fond of the kind, intelligent, witty posters here and look forward to hearing from you everyday. I have learned so much from all of you and I thank you kindly for that.
Learning the COD was not a surprise to most of us here. It would have been shocking had it not been hyperthermia and dehydration, both of which cause mental confusion.
The shock was the lack of preparation. It still is and we will never know why they made the choices that sadly turned out to be fatal.
I have looked at the video of the SLT and that place is haunting to me. Please forgive the hyperbole, but that dystopian area seems brutally harsh in places, yet quite mysterious and beautiful as well. I have to admitt to spending a ridiculous amount of time studying the video from the PC, not to mention Google Earth, lol. It has been very difficult to understand, just as a mother myself, the catastrophe choices these parents made, one after another. Lack of water, (Shockingly inadequate), inappropriate clothing, no water bowl for sweet little Oski, and most of all the extreme temperature that day. Why not turn back? Why not stay in the life giving water until the temperature went down? Couldn't they see the distress the two little ones were in? Very disturbing.
I find myself thinking what if they had packed enough water for each person, and Oski of course, would they have survived? If dehydration hadn't been a factor, would the end result be different? I don't think so. Not with the 107-109 temp, the time exposed to the heat, and the brutal incline of SLT. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on that.
My heart goes out their loved ones. I try to keep in mind that we don't know what all happened on that hike. They may have had to chase Oski down if he ran to the river. I have no doubt that JG probably had to carry him at some point, since Oski was found tethered to JG.
Heartbreaking and so sad.
Edited because words are hard.

 

[Seattle1]

You implied there's no reason for women to ask their partner about clothing for a hike. My point was that asking the more prepared party makes perfect sense, not that it was required in this case

^^rsbm

What was Ellen wearing that seems to have made her clothes an issue?

 

[Bekind89]

My apologies this has already been posted:

What we can learn from the death of the family hiking near Yosemite, and too many others.
The sprawling investigation looked at possibilities ranging from foul play to lightning strikes to mine gas to toxic algae. But in the end, the deaths of Jonathan Gerrish, 45, Ellen Chung, 30, their 1-year-old daughter Miju and their dog Oski were all attributed to hyperthermia and “probable” dehydration.

It’s rare for multiple hikers to succumb to heatstroke at the same time, according to search and rescue professionals, but during this unprecedentedly blistering summer, hikers fell ill from the heat and died across the state. As climate change ramps up, it’s only going to get worse, experts say, meaning that Californians need to learn how to protect themselves and their families.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...exhaustion-death-family-yosemite-16566472.php

 

[Yvettea]

He didn't just search for a trail on an app- he placed waypoints on the map, marking the loop. From the transcript of the sheriff's last presser: "On Saturday night, August 14th, Jonathan used an app on his phone to plot out the route of travel for the Hites Cove hike. We know while using the app, he only entered “way points” or point to point mapping, although this does not calculate the exact trail mileage or elevation changes. This was not uncommon; Jonathan used a few different trail-mapping apps and frequently took hikes."
That's evidence he planned to hike the loop, the track evidence and location of the bodies confirms he did. The GPS in his phone would show him where he was in relation to those waypoints, they are used for navigation. "A waypoint is an intermediate point or place on a route or line of travel, a stopping point or point at which course is changed." He most likely used them to mark his start/finish and the turns he wanted to make. MOO

Yes, waypoints. I’m so glad Jon mapped them. It may have been helpful in making the “loop.” But they needed so much more IMO

 

[rahod1]

. Why not turn back?
I find myself thinking what if they had packed enough water for each person, and Oski of course, would they have survived? If dehydration hadn't been a factor, would the end result be different? I don't think so. Not with the 107-109 temp, the time exposed to the heat, and the brutal incline of SLT. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on that.
.

Snipped an BBM
Bold #1>> That's the *64K Question* (for those old enough to know what means)
Bold #2>> MOO.....NO.
I snipped a lot, but this was a great post over all, since it conveys the way most of us feel about this tragedy.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

^^rsbm

What was Ellen wearing that seems to have made her clothes an issue?

They both were wearing shorts, sleeveless tops, & no hats. moo, as I think that was in the press conference.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

^^rsbm

What was Ellen wearing that seems to have made her clothes an issue?

According to the Chronicle "The family members were wearing shorts and tank tops, with no hats." I hope that doesn't mean the baby too, but surely it means both adults were dressed the same. So I don't know why it's just EC's clothes that are under discussion.

 

[5W's]

The transcript from the last presser says: "Tuesday, August 17th, at 9:30am, Search and Rescue teams located Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski approximately 1.6 miles from their vehicle on the Savage Lundy Trail deceased." Initially MSM said they were found at 11 am, but apparently that was an error. There was more to your bolded quote too: “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike,” Briese said of their final hike together." That makes it sound like his comment came after they were found, with just day hiking gear. I think it likely that it didn't become a big news story until they were found, too. So I'm thinking his use of present tense was just an error in the transition between the search and the recovery phases. MOO.

BBM
I don't understand with a few snacks and so woefully unprepared I'm baffled as to how this could be a day hike MOO.

 

[5W's]

DBL Post sorry Have to get the hang of this.

 

[everybodhi]

BBM
I don't understand with a few snacks and so woefully unprepared I'm baffled as to how this could be a day hike MOO.

A day hike can be 30 minutes or 10 hours, it only implies you aren't prepared to spend the night. Jmo

 

[5W's]

A day hike can be 30 minutes or 10 hours, it only implies you aren't prepared to spend the night. Jmo

Yes, that's why I think how can this be a day hike. Especially with the water and food I can see an hour max if that. I realize not prepared to spend the night which in this case is obvious. IMO. I guess I was just confused at how he phrased it IMO.

 

[katydid23]

I was away for a week and unable to post, but I am so glad to see a resolution to this tragic case.

All along I have felt this was going to be a devastating case of heat stroke.As I have posted a few times, our 18 month old son was riding in a backpack on my husband, in August in the LA Zoo. We thought he was asleep, but when I took him out of the pack he wouldn't fully wake up.

His face was white as a sheet and beaded with sweat, he was really groggy, couldn't keep his eyes open or respond. I called out for help and a nice woman led us directly to a large First Aid tent by the entrance.

The medics seemed to know exactly what was wrong. They told us he was overheated and they immediately sat him in a sink of cool water up to his waist. They they put a cold pack on the back of his neck and one on his chest. He barely reacted and that was so frightening to see because he was not a passive kid.

After a couple minutes he began fussing and crying and pushing back at them, which made the medics happy. They told us that was a good sign but we need to continue bringing down his core temperature. They took him out of the water but put him on my lap and had us hold the cold packs on him for awhile longer.

He also sipped some ice water. They were considering giving him an IV of fluids for dehydration, but he was responding well and his vitals were good, so they didn't do that. But they didn't want us to take him to the hot car for the ride home yet. They suggested we keep him in the a/c somewhere while we cool down the car first. They didn't want him to have anymore spikes in hot temps for his body until he was fully recovered, so we went to the restaurant and sat in the shade and kept him cool with cold packs for another hour, while he ate chicken nuggets and relaxed.

But I imagined the horror of what we could have done if we had been on a rugged hike instead of at the Zoo. If on a hike, we'd have no shade or a/c, no cool water sink or cold packs, no ice water to drink, and no medics to monitor the situation.

The medics told us it was really good that we woke him up, because if we had let him sleep and continued walking around the zoo, he might have become unconscious and gone into full blown heat stroke. He had symptoms of heat exhaustion but not full blown stroke.

And he had been fully hydrated that day before we went into the heat. And that was lucky too.

So when I read about this case, I really felt that the baby probably had heat exhaustion at some point early on. And her parents tried desperately to turn things around but they didn't have any of the most important tools to do so. And from then on it would just be like deadly dominoes...falling into place.

 

[everybodhi]

DBM

 

[ItalyReader]

I was away for a week and unable to post, but I am so glad to see a resolution to this tragic case.

All along I have felt this was going to be a devastating case of heat stroke.As I have posted a few times, our 18 month old son was riding in a backpack on my husband, in August in the LA Zoo. We thought he was asleep, but when I took him out of the pack he wouldn't fully wake up.

His face was white as a sheet and beaded with sweat, he was really groggy, couldn't keep his eyes open or respond. I called out for help and a nice woman led us directly to a large First Aid tent by the entrance.

The medics seemed to know exactly what was wrong. They told us he was overheated and they immediately sat him in a sink of cool water up to his waist. They they put a cold pack on the back of his neck and one on his chest. He barely reacted and that was so frightening to see because he was not a passive kid.

After a couple minutes he began fussing and crying and pushing back at them, which made the medics happy. They told us that was a good sign but we need to continue bringing down his core temperature. They took him out of the water but put him on my lap and had us hold the cold packs on him for awhile longer.

He also sipped some ice water. They were considering giving him an IV of fluids for dehydration, but he was responding well and his vitals were good, so they didn't do that. But they didn't want us to take him to the hot car for the ride home yet. They suggested we keep him in the a/c somewhere while we cool down the car first. They didn't want him to have anymore spikes in hot temps for his body until he was fully recovered, so we went to the restaurant and sat in the shade and kept him cool with cold packs for another hour, while he ate chicken nuggets and relaxed.

But I imagined the horror of what we could have done if we had been on a rugged hike instead of at the Zoo. If on a hike, we'd have no shade or a/c, no cool water sink or cold packs, no ice water to drink, and no medics to monitor the situation.

The medics told us it was really good that we woke him up, because if we had let him sleep and continued walking around the zoo, he might have become unconscious and gone into full blown heat stroke. He had symptoms of heat exhaustion but not full blown stroke.

And he had been fully hydrated that day before we went into the heat. And that was lucky too.

So when I read about this case, I really felt that the baby probably had heat exhaustion at some point early on. And her parents tried desperately to turn things around but they didn't have any of the most important tools to do so. And from then on it would just be like deadly dominoes...falling into place.

Thank you for sharing this.

I also think that in an urban/town environment we have the knowledge that official help (hospitals/police) and unofficial help (good Samaritans/bystanders) are usually readily available.
Example: When I go to NYC in summer I don’t bring water knowing I can easily buy it.

In a wild environment we are 100% dependent on and responsible for ourselves. Life or death depends on this.

 

[RickshawFan]

Oh NO, they weren't wearing hats? I have been away from the thread for a bit, sorry if I have missed something here??

Correct.