CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

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Been thinking about reasons why they would go out in those conditions. From their social media posts it seems they used the walks as a way to de-stress as many of us do.
You can imagine after a stressful week, especially as new-ish parents and Jonathan having a new job, the need to get out on a trail may have been overwhelming.
As someone said earlier in the posts they could have planned to go out early before the heat set in, not realising it was already very hot and quickly became overwhelmed by the conditions, after all this was a trail they had done before, it should have been okay.
The answers that the family need are there, it might just take a while.

His AllTrails has a different section of the trail mapped, the easier part known for wildflowers in spring. It does not show it as hiked. Where did you see that they had hiked this strenuous section of the trail in the past? To me it is more understandable if they were unfamiliar with how "aggressive" a hike it was, as LE put it.
 
His AllTrails has a different section of the trail mapped, the easier part known for wildflowers in spring. It does not show it as hiked. Where did you see that they had hiked this strenuous section of the trail in the past? To me it is more understandable if they were unfamiliar with how "aggressive" a hike it was, as LE put it.

You make a good point that it would be more understandable for them to have encountered unforeseen problems if they were on an unfamiliar hike. Personally, I assumed some degree of familiarity given the family’s proximity to the trail head, their love of hiking, and other life circumstances that might prohibit more distant adventures (quarantine, baby). However, a reasonable assumption is not a fact. I am also now realizing that I have assumed the carrier pack is new based upon the IG post. Also a fact not in evidence.
 
Information that should be available hasn’t been released, which is frustrating. By now, LE should know:

- did they attempt to make any calls or send texts? We don’t need to know details, but they should provide a yes/no answer as to whether they attempted to summon help
- exactly what time they arrived at the trail (this should be available from their vehicle and/or when their phones lost reception)
- what their apparent route was (based on footprints and other evidence), and how long it would have been expected to take
- preliminary tests on the water (pop it under a microscope and tell us what you see! Is there a possibility it is tainted?)
- whether the dog was leashed. I.e., could he run away?
- whether any clothing had been repositioned (e.g., did anyone take a shirt off, use a shirt as a bandana or makeshift support for a sprained ankle or other injury that may not have been obvious on physical exam?)
- what did their trash contain? Typically hikers will not litter. Diapers, food wrappers, anything?
- what were they carrying with them? Water filtration equipment?
- did both adults have phones?
- did either adult have a smart watch?

If homicide is off the table (as they said), why not release this basic information?

I'm interested to know these things but I'm not sure what would be gained from them releasing this information though? I'm sure when they are ready and there is any news the public needs to know we will be told.
 
Yeh, I get that. I get it's rural. But I still think 9 hours to find a body 1.5 miles in on a trail is still a heck of a long time.

I don't know if SAR or LE waited until dark, they may have done, but why would they? In many situations, waiting can cost lives, and portable flashlights are other lighting is available to deal with the dark.

Just my 20 cents.....

I know others have also reponded, but here's my take -- in addition to my thinking that LE started searching down the Hites side of the loop (following the family's footsteps if that's how they went) and therefore had a several mile trek before they would have found them almost done with their loop, I think we also need to keep in mind that LE obviously did not know they would be found right on the trail. So their searching needed to include some distance off the trail as well, and probably up and down the river a ways at the bottom as well. All that adds time to the search, especially given that the first half would have been done in the dark.

MOO

I really wish/hope one of the adults left some kind of message on their phone -- either an attempted text, or in some note app etc. I'm afraid that most people would assume they will get out ok and by the time they realize they won't, they've already lost their ability to think clearly enough to remember to leave some kind of note. Hoping otherwise. MOO
 
You make a good point that it would be more understandable for them to have encountered unforeseen problems if they were on an unfamiliar hike. Personally, I assumed some degree of familiarity given the family’s proximity to the trail head, their love of hiking, and other life circumstances that might prohibit more distant adventures (quarantine, baby). However, a reasonable assumption is not a fact. I am also now realizing that I have assumed the carrier pack is new based upon the IG post. Also a fact not in evidence.
Since they routinely went hiking every weekend (presumably) on this same trail, now I wonder what the weather forecast was like from the weekend before (on all hours of the morning/day), and if it was just as hot or a bit milder.
 
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I'm a pretty regular hiker. I haven't seen a paper map in years. Alltrails, Gaia and/or Guthook are all great apps for hiking. There are also some fantastic GPS out there I've seen widely used on trails.

Thanks for updating me. I am old. I would hate to navigate my hike via technology vs a paper map, so I erred on the side of wistfulness :) Perhaps all this technology has made folks too trusting of their ability to negotiate wilderness experiences?
 
So here's a question that popped into my head while chewing on the different scenarios -- for those of you who've had the misfortune of losing someone to suicide, how many of those people made the effort to reach a place like this for the purpose of taking their life? Of the many, many people I have lost to suicide, all of them chose a place that was at least moderately private -- rooms with closed doors, barns, garages. Those who chose a public place still made an effort towards privacy -- a cemetery at night, a dense patch of woods in a state forest, parked in a car on a remote, unpaved road. I mean, I know that there is no rulebook for suicide, but I feel like midway through a hike on a public trail is a very odd choice unless it had some sort of significance to them. It makes me think that suicide is the least likely choice just based on location alone.
 
PiggyBacking on @NSamuelle's post above ⬆︎ - A lot of assumptions have been made, in my opinion. Below are things I don't know.

1. What time did they start hike? (morning or afternoon? I know LE says afternoon.)
2. How long had they been hiking?
3. What trail/route they took? (is this absolutely known?)
4. How experienced were they were as hikers? (ie What did they have with them? Only one container of water for 4? A map, paper or electronic? Food? GPS watches? No indication they had hiked regularly that I've seen as proof. On Ellen's IG some of their travel shots indicate tours they were on led by commercial groups.)
5. How well did they know area conditions including microclimates and temperature changes? (Only lived in the nearby house a year. had a new baby last year. moved there during Covid.)
6. Does ANYONE else use these area trails in summer? How much trail traffic, in general? (After Covid restrictions lifted, CA trails everywhere were packed! So a lonely trail with no one would have been strange.)
7. Had the two of them or either ever been on this trail before? (John had done only a short hike there or nearby indicated by his AllTrails account.)
 
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So here's a question that popped into my head while chewing on the different scenarios -- for those of you who've had the misfortune of losing someone to suicide, how many of those people made the effort to reach a place like this for the purpose of taking their life? Of the many, many people I have lost to suicide, all of them chose a place that was at least moderately private -- rooms with closed doors, barns, garages. Those who chose a public place still made an effort towards privacy -- a cemetery at night, a dense patch of woods in a state forest, parked in a car on a remote, unpaved road. I mean, I know that there is no rulebook for suicide, but I feel like midway through a hike on a public trail is a very odd choice unless it had some sort of significance to them. It makes me think that suicide is the least likely choice just based on location alone.
It would be a really difficult way to do it, I agree.
 
You make a good point that it would be more understandable for them to have encountered unforeseen problems if they were on an unfamiliar hike. Personally, I assumed some degree of familiarity given the family’s proximity to the trail head, their love of hiking, and other life circumstances that might prohibit more distant adventures (quarantine, baby). However, a reasonable assumption is not a fact. I am also now realizing that I have assumed the carrier pack is new based upon the IG post. Also a fact not in evidence.

I also wondered if the backpack was new. I did not see any posts with the baby in one? They had just moved to the house near the trailhead in late July, and that trail was not on either of their AllTrails so I assumed it was unfamiliar, but maybe we will learn more. It was a very demanding and unforgiving environment in that heat. This headline should be posted at trailheads. How Heat Kills: Deadly Weather 'Cooking' People From … (webmd.com)
 
Was this a trail they had done before with the baby?
Does their social media have pics of the family (including baby) on hikes midday in that area? Are any of their friends posting or talking about hikes the parents have been on recently? They also have a nanny that works Monday through Friday, so she would give the parents a break during the week.
Jonathan had posted on Alltrails confirming he had done this hike before, with the baby we don't know.
My point is that we don't know their state of mind and decision making process when it came to this hike, a decision which has lead to a tragic outcome.
 
In the case of the French couple who died from heat at White Sands Monument, the temperature was 100 degrees, but the feels like temp (air temp, relative humidity, wind) was more like 110 degrees. So imagine what it really must have felt like in the canyon that afternoon.
The footage of the helicopter retrieving their bodies shows the heat haze, that to me was an indication of the conditions they must have faced.
 
The results for the dog might be back that quickly. Tox screens for adults usually take around 6 weeks and they generally don't return the results one at a time--they wait until they're all ready.

That's a very broad generalization, though, and since they asked for expedited results, it might be quicker.
 
I also wondered if the backpack was new. I did not see any posts with the baby in one? They had just moved to the house near the trailhead in late July, and that trail was not on either of their AllTrails so I assumed it was unfamiliar, but maybe we will learn more. It was a very demanding and unforgiving environment in that heat. This headline should be posted at trailheads. How Heat Kills: Deadly Weather 'Cooking' People From … (webmd.com)
Did they move into the new house in late July of 2021 or late July of 2020?
 
His AllTrails has a different section of the trail mapped, the easier part known for wildflowers in spring. It does not show it as hiked. Where did you see that they had hiked this strenuous section of the trail in the past? To me it is more understandable if they were unfamiliar with how "aggressive" a hike it was, as LE put it.
I didn't mean the switchbacks section, just the general area he had been in before. From what I have read even the wildflower trail is not easy at this time of year, especially carrying a child. Did you read the review on Alltrails from July 2017 saying how hot it got and water was essential?
The lesson we can all learn is that the heat can be a killer, dont take a chance. Looks like temperatures are going to be similar again this weekend on the trail.
 
As a runner and hiker, I KNOW we can and do some pretty risky things.

I know that to be true. I once "memorized" (yeah right) the general ranger station map after a friend turned back with the copy. Later, I encountered a deliberately twisted trail sign. A five mile hike then turned into a nine mile hike during August heat in Texas.

After that sweaty and thirsty lesson, I order and use the USGS topographic map for any area that I am hiking- and also take two copies of the ranger station map.

.
Its as if they were not truly all there mentally. Its as if they all were not thinking logically as if something caused there brain or thinking ability to not function properly. They wouldn't leave the baby in a carrier to die alone.

What drug or poison effects your brain thinking, and behaviour like that and kills within 1 hour or less?

There might not of been a drug or poison. Rather, there could have been collective panic, stress and tunnel vision compounding each other and snowballing.

In hiking groups, this can lead to the abandonment of needed gear, the rejection of clearly viable courses of action, energy wasted trying to do everything at once- but actually doing nothing, obessive tunnel vision on a risky or contradictory solution as being the "only solution", obsessively retaining un needed gear etc.

My guess is that one of the adults started to falter. This produced stress. But.... the presence of and danger to the baby snowballed the stress into stress approximating close combat. The adults had probably never experienced anywhere near this level of stress in the past.

Sadly, on this occasion, panic might have set in resulting in tunnel vision, contradictory efforts, energy wasted on doing everything, but accomplishing nothing. Heat can lead to thinking in slow motion. The second adult then started to falter and things got worse.

I experienced some of the above on a hike. Many points of logic said to ignore the sign (twisted) and take the trail off the mesa. A brief backtrack confirmed the logic. My mind just kept going into "re-set mode".
 
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