Found Deceased CA - Judy Gifford, 11, San Francisco, 1 Jan 1974

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Murkywaters, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Murkywaters

    Murkywaters Well-Known Member

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  2. Fuuro

    Fuuro spicy user

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    1222UFCA
    1222UFCA - Unidentified Female

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Reconstruction of the decedent by NCMEC.

    Date of Discovery: July 28, 1990
    Location of Discovery: Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, California
    Estimated Date of Death: 3-20+ years prior
    State of Remains: Skeletal
    Cause of Death: Unknown

    Physical Description
    Estimated Age: 12-16 years old
    Race: Asian with possible Black admixture
    Sex: Female
    Height: 5'1" to 5'2"
    Weight: Unknown
    Hair Color: Unknown
    Eye Color: Unknown
    Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown

    Identifiers
    Dentals: Available. She had one alloy dental filling on an upper right molar. One of her lower right central incisors were twisted, which would have been noticeable when she spoke.
    Fingerprints: Not available.
    DNA: Available.

    Clothing & Personal Items
    Clothing: Blue and white striped shorts.
    Jewelry: Unknown.
    Additional Personal Items: Yellow, green and red blanket.

    Circumstances of Discovery
    The decedent's skeletal remains were found buried in the courtyard of an abandoned apartment building on the 1200 block of South Western Avenue on July 28, 1990.
    ------
    Race, sex, and PMI all match up, but age is kind of off and location is a bit of a stretch (6+ hours away). Judy doesn't have a height or weight listed, and there aren't any available photos of her, so there really isn't much to go off of in terms of vitals and other characteristics
    when comparing her to UIDs. We also don't have any dental information on her, so we have no clue if she had any fillings.
     
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  3. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Timeline Guru (Still Remembering Cupcake)

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  4. SAMS

    SAMS TC Writer

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    Wow, nothing about this missing girl on the net at all. Just NAMUS. And no back story even on there. MOO
     
  5. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    • [​IMG]
      Judy Gifford
      • [​IMG]
      Judy, circa 1974
      • Missing Since 01/01/1974
      • Missing From San Francisco, California
      • Classification Endangered Missing
      • Date of Birth 01/31/1962 (57)
      • Age 11 years old
      • Height and Weight 5'0, 100 pounds
      • Distinguishing Characteristics Asian female. Black hair, brown eyes.
      Details of Disappearance
      Judy was last seen in San Francisco, California sometime in 1974. She has never been heard from again. Very little information is available in her case.
      Investigating Agency
      • San Francisco Police Department 415-553-1071

     
  6. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    This certainly is a strange case. The little girl was only 11 years old and went missing some where in the San Francisco area sometime in 1974. And it is just now being reported or listed?

    Note that the "missing date" of 1 January is something which is done by many websites when the actual date is not known.

    It would be good to know more information about Judy.
     
  7. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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  8. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud Well-Known Member

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    "Race: Asian with possible Black admixture"
    What does this even mean? :confused:
    Never heard something like that before...
    Does she have a Black father, mother, granpa, grandma or not?
     
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  9. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    This thread should be marked as "found", but many questions remain and it most likely is now considered an unsolved murder. Perhaps it should be listed in the "Cold Case" section.

    Many questions remain. Judy went missing some time in 1974, yet she is listed as having been buried in October 1976. Where was she in the intervening months? Who killed and buried her?
     
  10. Fede

    Fede Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I was thinking just that. The report said that the body had a "recognisable face", so she must have been alive from 01/01/1974 up to september 1976. Weird.
     
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  11. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    From the other thread, i read that she was 15, not 11. ‍
    The missing date might be wrong too, after so much time, people's memories of things might be hazy.
     
  12. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    Possibly a black father and Asian mother. Back during the time of the Korean and Vietnam Wars, there were many marriages between Asian (Vietnamese, South Korean, Japanese, Okinawan) women and US soldiers and sailors. There were also adoptions of these children by couples in the US.

    ETA: From the photo of her with a Hawaiian print dress and lei, one of her parents may have been from Hawaii or another island in the South Pacific.

    ETA2: Here's a link to her brother's post in the other thread with more details:

    CA - CA - San Francisco, AsianFem 1273UFCA, 15-25, buried at Lake Merced, Oct'76
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  13. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    Hello. Thank you for thread. I didn't know that this was here until Fede linked it on the other thread. And I stumbled upon the other thread by chance a few days ago. I simply typed, "San Francisco Jane Doe #40 1976" on the internet search engine, and the other thread from this same site came up.

    Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful posts. I shared the other thread with my younger sister, Susan. I will share this one with her as well. And when I see my Aunt Ogee in a couple of days (because her oldest brother and my dad's oldest brother passed away today at 3pm est at the age of 89), I will show her this site. At least, I am glad he was able to go knowing the status of Judy Gifford.

    As a thank you for everyone who took the time to post some thoughts here, I'll take some time to write up a brief narrative of my family's story.

    Before I do so, I wanted to mention that the information in the OP was based on a very rough ballpark information that I was going off of myself. It was information I was attempting to piece together between:
    • what my dad shared with me,
    • what my mom shared with me,
    • what my Aunt Ogee (my dad's sister) shared with me,
    • and my own memories from when I was 6yo.
    And that was what I then shared with SFPD when I had filed a new report in 2017.

    As a result of the absolutely superb detective work by SFPD, a great deal of the rough information that I had provided (e.g. general time frame of 1974-1976) have smoothed out with greater degree of specificity and clarity.

    Again, I thank everyone here for your thoughtful and caring posts.

    Warmly,
    Will
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  14. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to start with 1953. My Aunt Ogee was 18 years old. She worked at Yongsan U.S. Army base at the small PX. There she met and married an American soldier name John Gifford. Uncle John Gifford hailed from New Jersey. With her husband, Aunt Ogee raised up two sons, John jr. and James.

    Now, Aunt Ogee had three brothers:
    • There was Big Uncle who was 5 years older than her.
    • Then my Aunt Ogee.
    • My dad Mike who was 2 years younger than her.
    • And finally Little Uncle Roy who was about 6 years younger than her. He's only little in age, not in height. Among the siblings, he's the tallest, standing at 6'.
    At one time, I was told that Aunt Ogee had 8 siblings, but the Korean War and post-Korean War death tolls claimed the lives of her father and five of her siblings. So surviving family were her mother, herself, and her three brothers.

    Fast forward to approximately 1960-1961. My dad marries a woman, and together they produce a daughter, Judy Shin, who was born in 1962.

    Not long after that, because Uncle John Gifford and Aunt Ogee PCS'd to Hawaii and then eventually Fort Dix, NJ, Aunt Ogee's entire family moved with her:
    • Her widowed mother,
    • Big Uncle with his wife and children,
    • Little Uncle Roy
    My father did not follow his siblings and his mother. He had a difficult time convincing his wife to move to America. For whatever reasons, she did not want to move to America but wanted to stay in Korea. So they filed a divorce. By Korean custom in a divorce situation, the father has custody of any children. So with Judy in tow, my father caught up with his sister (Aunt Ogee) in Hawaii. This would have been around 1962 or 1963.

    In order to expedite U.S. Citizenship, my father decided to enlist in the U.S. Army. As a single father serving in the Army, he could not care for his daughter well. So Aunt Ogee took care of looking after Judy while Dad was in training, deployed to Vietnam, etc. Because of legal issues that my Aunt Ogee and Uncle John Gifford ran into while looking after Judy (e.g. enrolling Judy in school required parental approval), they thought it best to adopt Judy while Dad was still Single. The plan was that they would look after and raise Judy themselves until Dad was able to find another wife and settle down. So somewhere around 1963/1964 (I'm guessing), Uncle John Gifford and Aunt Ogee legally adopted Judy. She had her last name changed from Judy Shin to Judy Gifford.

    Here are some pictures...
    IMG_0182.JPG Uncle John Gifford, Aunt Ogee, and Judy enjoying the beach.

    IMG_0184.JPG My Dad with Judy in front of him, and Uncle John Gifford with his two sons - John jr. and James.

    Judy with Biological Dad and her cousin John.jpg My dad with Judy and James
    IMG_0202.JPG Judy and John jr.
    IMG_0191.JPG Judy opening up a Christmas gift.
    IMG_0198.JPG Judy and Aunt Ogee.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  15. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere around 1968-ish, my father is stationed in Yongsan Army base. He meets my mother, Sunny, and they get married around 1969. I am born in 1970. My sister, Susan, is born in 1972.

    As is expected of military family life, we moved around a great deal. My father's final duty station was at the Presidio of San Francisco, before he was medically discharged. We lived at the Park Merced community somewhere around 1974 to 1977. At that time, Park Merced served as military enlisted housing for Presidio Army soldiers and Treasure Island Navy sailors, and the Army/Navy Commissary was part of Stonestown Plaza.

    So here's some more pictures.
    IMG_0187.JPG Judy's dad / My dad on wedding day with my mom.
    IMG_0211.JPG Another picture of my parents' wedding.
    IMG_0189.JPG My dad, Uncle John Gifford, and Little Uncle Roy (see, I told you he isn't little in statute). This was my Aunt's house for over 40 years (more about this later).
    IMG_0197.JPG Little Uncle Roy, Aunt Ogee, my Mom, and my Dad.
    IMG_0798.JPG Back Row Left-to-Right: Aunt June (one of my mom's sisters), Little Uncle Roy, Uncle John Gifford, my Dad.
    Front Row Left-to-Right: Unknown woman, Could be my Mom but if not unknown woman, Judy, and me.
    IMG_0818.JPG Me and Judy (I thought this picture was lost, but I just now found it.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  16. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    Some more random pictures of Judy and family before I was born or right around the time I was born.

    Judy (at a younger age).jpg Undated photo of a young Judy.
    Judy and Cousin John2.jpg Judy and John jr.
    IMG_0193.JPG Aunt Ogee and Uncle John Gifford
    IMG_0200.JPG My mom and James
     
  17. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    So picking up the story...

    Around 1974, Uncle John Gifford passed away early from a heart attack while hunting with his friends. That left Aunt Ogee to raise up three children by herself.

    In 1976, having no strong father figure in her life, 14yo Judy began misbehaving. According to Aunt Ogee, Judy's school grades were dropping, she was rebelling against her adoptive mother, she was sneaking out of the house at nights, and she was getting herself into trouble with law enforcement.

    So Aunt Ogee felt that it was time for Judy to now return back to her biological father, as originally agreed upon that the adoption would only be temporary - to give time for my father to find a new wife and settle down. So my Aunt Ogee and Judy flew out to San Francisco in the Summer of 1976. After a brief stay, Aunt Ogee flew back to N.J., leaving behind Judy under her biological father's care.

    I have only two event memories of Judy when she was with us in S.F.
    • A trip to the S.F. Zoo, where an argument had occurred between my father and Judy.
    • A phone call of Judy crying to Aunt Ogee that she wanted to fly back to N.J. to be with Aunt Ogee. And Aunt Ogee telling her that she needed to learn to love her biological father.
    And on October 1, 1976, according to Doe Network, Unidentified Wiki, and namus.gov, a body of an Asian female was found. For 43 years, nobody linked the two together.

    For me, I was told that "Cousin" Judy flew back to Aunt Ogee. My parents never told me that Judy was my half-sister. In 1988, when I was 18yo, I visited Aunt Ogee. It was the first time we had seen each other since 1976. I asked her where was "Cousin" Judy, her daughter? That is when she told me the story of Judy Gifford. But she thought Judy had ran away.

    She had lived in that same house just outside of Fort Dix, NJ for over 40 years with the same house phone number because she hoped and prayed that Judy just might somehow show up at her house or call her. She was afraid that if she moved or changed her phone number, that it could prevent Judy from ever knowing how to get a hold of her. And during the last 40+ years, Aunt Ogee has lived with deep regret and remorse over the phone conversation that she had with Judy. She wishes that she did not rebuff Judy's cries of wanting to fly back to N.J. and live with her, but instead would have said, "Yes, come on back. I'll buy the airplane ticket right now."

    This is the tragic story of the short lived life of Judy Shin / Gifford.

    Unfortunately, the story remains an unfinished tragic story. The chapters of "Whereabouts Unknown / Missing Persons" and "Identifying S.F. Jane Doe #40" have now concluded. A final chapter of Judy's story has begun: "Whodunit? Who killed Judy Gifford and Why?" SFPD has shared their thoughts with both my sister and me. Both my sister and I are fully supportive of SFPD's efforts to finding justice for Judy. Until then, at least my family has closure knowing
     
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  18. Fede

    Fede Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your family story!!!! Now we know that we had Judy' s disappearance date wrong. She was alive in the summer of 1976 (not on January 1974 as we thought previously)
     
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  19. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    My apologies with some of the poor grammar above. Probably around 2am, I started dozing off as I was trying to finish my thoughts. Allow me to finish here by picking up on the last sentence.

    ***

    Until then, at least my family has closure in knowing that she did decease. We just did not expect to hear that her death was so close in time to when she had just arrived in 1976 and so close in location of just a mile or two from our house in Park Merced.

    My Aunt is still in shock and is still trying to process everything.

    Actually, we all are.

    My younger sister, Susan, has suddenly felt grief and loss over a half-sister that she has no memory of ever meeting or knowing. Up to this point, she had no feelings or thoughts about Judy because of that lack of memory or any emotional connection. But she was sharing with me that after the face-to-face interview with the SFPD detectives a couple of weeks ago, she felt a new degree of sadness over Judy's death and all the backdrop story leading up to it.

    We both realized that this is the kind of tragic story that we read about in books and the Bible, we watch in movies, or we hear about on the news regarding other people's lives. So to hear that such an event unfolded within our own immediate family, it brings about a new reality of life that we never personally experienced - death. And not just any sort of death that is impersonal (e.g. earthquake, cancer, military war, etc.), but this one is deeply personal - death of one of our immediate family members by the hands of someone else.

    We thank God for His kindness in finally revealing all this to us, after 43 years. As well, we are... and personally I am... deeply indebted and grateful to the excellent work by SFPD, particularly Sergeant Christopher Long, Sergeant Andrea Creed, and Detective Dedit (retired). After talking with Detective Dedit, I know that he is still actively working the case from his angle of "whodunit." If solving this from that angle is possible, that would be absolutely great, as that would close out the final chapter to Judy's story. But if not, my family has closure and peace in knowing Judy's situation.

    Thank you for taking the time in reading my ramblings. I hope my ramblings make some sense.

    Warmly,
    Will
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  20. Wi11s

    Wi11s Well-Known Member

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    Where is everyone today?


    No Picture.jpg Big Uncle: He just past away yesterday at 3pm EST at the age of 89 in Mt. Holly, NJ. He is survived by his wife, four adult children, and 4 grandchildren.
    Ogee.jpg Aunt Ogee: She still lives in N.J. but no longer at that house that she had been at for 40+ years. She lives in a senior citizen community not far from Fort Dix, NJ. She will soon be a great-grandmother.
    IMG_0618.JPG Judy's, My, and Susan's Dad: He is now in permanent hospice care at the Phoenix VA Hospital.
    No Picture.jpg Little Uncle Roy: He is in permanent hospice care in New Jersey due to advanced Parkinson's.
    Cousin John.jpg John jr.: He retired from the U.S. Army as a full Colonel. And lives in his mother's (my Aunt Ogee's) old house that he grew up in, just outside of Fort Dix, NJ. He will soon be a grandfather, as his youngest daughter, Jennifer, is expecting a child soon.
    No Picture.jpg James: He retired as an electrician, and lives in South Jersey.
    Mom and Skylar.jpg My and Susan's Mom: She lives in Phoenix, AZ with Susan and her family.
    DSC00362.JPG Susan: Lives in Phoenix, AZ as a stay-at-home mom with her husband Peter, daughter, and our mom.

    Final Done With M St.jpg Me: I live just outside of Washington, DC and Baltimore. I am a data scientist/analyst with Social Security Administration.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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