Identified! CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Manson Victim, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson

Discussion in 'Identified!' started by Richard, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Unidentified White Female
    The victim was discovered on November 16, 1969 in Los Angeles, California.
    Estimated Date of Death: November 14, 1969
    Stabbed to death

    Vital Statistics

    Estimated age: 20 - 23 years old
    Approximate Height and Weight: 5'9 1/2"; 112 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Tinted dark brown hair; green eyes. Vaccination scars on left arm and left outer thigh, one-quarter-inch scar under right breast, light brown birthmark on right buttock.
    Dentals: Available. She had silver amalgam fillings in upper teeth numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 12, 13, 14, and 15, and lower teeth 18, 19, 20, 21, 28, 29, 30 and 31.
    Clothing: Blue corduroy jacket, size 9-10 made in Canada; Blue hip-hugger Levis, made in Boston, MA.; tan, knee-length, riding type boots (possibly made in Spain), well worn and resoled; tan sweater, size 32; belt marked Thom 38 or Tham 38, The belt is leather, about two inches wide, with one-inch leather strips which go through a brass ring.; Yellow metal ring with red oval stone on right ring finger; white metal ring with Indian designs on left middle finger, made in Mexico.
    Fingerprints: Available

    See below link for Composite sketch of victim and drawings of her Jewlery and Clothing.

    Case History

    The victim was located on Mulholland Drive and Skyline Drive, Los Angeles, CA. She was found down an embankment alongside of Mulholland Drive, near Laurel Canyon, by a hiker.

    She had been stabbed to death, and there is evidence of a "rage" or overkill.

    The DNA evidence is tentative. Police are still attempting to extract a DNA profile from blood from her clothing.

    Because of the labels in her clothing, detectives suspect she may have come from Canada or the east coast, possibly Europe.

    A witness remembered seeing the girl with the Manson Family at Spahn, and thought her name was "Sherry".

    Investigators

    If you have any information about this case please contact:

    Los Angeles Police Department
    Robbery Homicide Division
    Cold Case Homicide Unit
    Detectives C Shepard and J Ramirez
    213-847-0970

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    Agency Case Number: 69-668376
    Coroner Case Number: 1969-12644
    NCIC Number: U-393785300

    Please refer to these numbers when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Source Information:
    Los Angeles Police Department
    Helter Skelter
    The Doe Network: Case File 358UFCA

    LINK:

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/358ufca.html
     
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  3. ASU2USC

    ASU2USC New Member

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  4. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    It is possible that this unknown girl is Sherry Cooper, but why has no identification been made in the past 38 years? Indeed, if there were family looking for Sherry Cooper (if that was her real name) then DNA could be compared.

    A lot of young people came and went at the Spahn Ranch, as did Biker gangs. Most of the girls (and guys) associated with Charles Manson went by nicknames or aliases. I wonder if "Sherry Cooper" might also have been such as name.

    The website indicates that another girl was with Sherry Cooper. Has she ever turned up? Is she listed as missing?

    It would be interesting if this girl could be positively identified and Charles Manson tried for her murder so many years later. Manson and several of his followers were given Death Sentences, but when the Death Sentence was declared "Unconstitutional" back in the early 1970's they (along with many others) got lucky and were awarded Life Sentences instead. Now that the Death Penalty is back in place, it would be sweetly ironic if they could be tried for another murder committed so many years ago.

    There are, of course, some other possibilities regarding this case. This was a time when the Zodiac Killer was operating. Also, see the Websleuths thread on the Lompoc Jane Doe, who was also stabbed to death in Southern California - in August 1969. There could be a link there.
     
  5. ASU2USC

    ASU2USC New Member

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    http://books.google.com/books?id=vI...ts=tM-6t5neol&sig=HyO40vJS0S88blZRBR2LAxj9sG0

    This excerpt from Helter Skelter seems to indicate that the LA Sheriff's office verified that Sherry Cooper was still alive after they found Sherry Doe. I'm not really sure after a bit more searching what the verdict is - I've found about half and half of websites that think this is Sherry Cooper or don't think so.



    It sounds like the whole story was that Sherry Cooper walked out of Spahn Ranch with another girl, Barbara Hoyt, when the activities of the Manson Family got too overwhelming for them. Manson followed them, but when he caught up with them, they were in a public place with other people around, so all he did was give them bus fare to Los Angeles. Here's a link to a page about Barbara Hoyt:
    http://charliesfamily.tripod.com/barbara.html
    According to this page, she is still alive - it sounds like she and Sherry may have separated when they got to Los Angeles.
     
  6. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    My first post about "Sherry" Doe was basically right out of the Doenetwork files. Note that it includes as a source a book titled "Helter Skelter". That book was written by Vincent Bugliosi and Curt Gentry and was first published in November 1974.

    Bugliosi was Deputy District Attorney for Los Angles County, and he prosecuted Charles Manson and some of his "Family" for what was called the Tate Murders and LaBianca Murders. Those murders took place on 8 and 9 August, 1969 respectively.

    Bugliosi tells the story of Charles Manson and his followers, and he mentions many other murders connected with or attributed to them. It is Bugliosi who wrote of the finding of this unknown girl, who was officially listed as Jane Doe Number 59. Here is what he says about her in "Helter Skelter" (page 646):

    ----------------------------------
    (quote) On November 16, 1969, the body of a young girl was found dumped over an embankment at Mulholland and Bowmont Drive near Laurel Canyon, in almost the same spot where Marina Habe's body was found.

    A brunette in her late teens, five feet nine, 115 pounds, she had been stabbed 157 times in the chest and throat. Ruby Pearl remembered seeing the girl with the Family at Spahn (ranch), and thought her name was "Sherry".

    Though the Manson girls traded aliases often, LASO (Los Angles Sheriff Office) was able to identify only one Sherry, Sherry Ann Cooper, aka Simi Valley Sherri. She had fled Barker Ranch at the same time as Barbara Hoyt and was, fortunately , still alive. The victim, who had been dead less than a day, became Jane Doe 59 in police files. Her identity is still unknown. (unquote)
    -------------------------------

    Note 1, the girl named Marina Habe was the seventeen year old daughter of writer Hans Habe. She was abducted at about 3:30 AM on 30 December, 1968 outside the West Hollywood home of her mother and her body was found on New Years day 1969 off Mulholland near Bowmont Drive. Cause of death was multiple stab wounds in the neck and chest.

    Note 2, Ruby Pearl was a former Circus horse rider who had been working as sort of Ranch Manager for 81 year old George Spahn. She hired and fired ranch hands and wranglers, and ran the stables. According to Bugliosi, she IDENTIFIED Jane Doe Number 59 as a girl whom she had seen at the Spahn Ranch, and she thought that the girl went by the name Sherry.

    Bugliosi states incorrectly that the ONLY girl named Sherry was Sherry Ann Cooper who ran away with Barbara Hoyt (aka Barbara Rosenburg).
    According to Barabara, Manson intended to kill them, but instead caught up with them at a restaurant and gave them $20 bus fare. It is entirely possible that he ordered his Family to kill these girls. Barbara Hoyt agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and the Manson Family did indeed try to kill her by giving her a poisoned hamburger.

    Two observations here:

    First, Bugliosi never met or spoke with this Sherry Ann Cooper. If he had, he would have mentioned it and certainly would have tried to get her to corroborate the testimony of Barbara Hoyt. So his statement that she was "fortunately, still alive" is at best second hand hearsay.

    Second, there WAS another Sherry at the Spahn Ranch and Bugliosi, himself includes her in "Helter Skelter". She went by "Sherry Andrews" which was an alias. Her real name was Claudia Leigh Smith, who was arrested and detained with others for a short time on 2 October 1969 when police raided the isolated Barker Ranch.

    I have no further information on either of these two girls. It is possible that "Sherry Doe" is one of them, or maybe neither. But it is very possible and likely that she was associated with the Manson Family in some way.

    Manson himself claimed 35 murders, and other Family members estimate as many. Some of the victims were just teenagers like most of the Family Members. The manner of death is certainly similar to many of the Manson Murders.
     
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  7. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Setting aside for a moment, the possibility that the Manson Family was involved in this girl's murder;

    There seems to be a strong connection between "Sherry Doe's" murder and that of Marina Habe. Both were killed in the same manner and then their bodies dumped in the same place.

    There are a number of other similar unsolved cases, and there were several known and yet unknown serial killers in California around that same time. Perhaps some connections can still be made.
     
  8. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    I have not been able to positively determine what became of the two girls who used the name "Sherry" and who lived with the Manson Family at the Spahn and Barker Ranches in 1969. I did, however, find a website which contains a lot of information, including mug shots of both girls.

    If you click on the link below, you should see the two girls photos side by side at the top of the screen. You can then compare their photos with the composite of "Sherry Doe" in the link in an above post.

    Photo on left is:
    Sherry Ann Cooper
    birth dates given: 5-17-49 / 8-1-49 / 5-19-52 (Spahn Ranch Raid)
    Other names used: Simi Valley Sherri or Sherry, Sherry, Ruthie, Ruth Ann Heuvelhurst (Spahn Ranch Raid)

    Photo on right is:
    Claudia Leigh Smith, born 8-11-1950
    aliases:
    Collie
    Beth Tracy
    Sherry Andrews
    Claudia Andrews
    married William Cole, (aka Bill Vance)

    Note that it is possible that all the names are aliases. The website has a listing of all known Manson Family members and a list of aliases used. Family Members switched identities with eachother and used stolen ID's and credit cards.

    Source:

    CharlieManson.Com - Manson Family Mugshots

    LINK:

    http://www.charliemanson.com/mugshots/mug-4.htm
     
  9. raindrops300

    raindrops300 New Member

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    I did a side-by-side. I dunno. What does anybody think? I'm not very good at identifying people.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the side-by-side comparison. Makes it a bit easier to see. There are similarities between Sherry Ann Cooper and "Sherry Doe", such as hair, mouth, and nose. But I also see similar points when comparing the Doe drawing with the photo of Claudia Leigh Smith (aka Sherry Andrews)

    Unfortunately, I do not have other information such as height, weight, hair and eye color for the two Manson "Sherrys".

    The sad thing is that this girl likely had parents or family somewhere, who have never known what became of her.
     
  11. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Some believe that Marina Habe was a victim of the Zodiac Killer. Others think that she was murdered by members of the Manson Family, possibly by Tex Watson. Marina's body was found in an area where "Sherry Doe" would be found.

    Here is a news story about the murder of Marina Habe - a case which remains unsolved.

    --------------------------------------
    Chicago Tribune

    Purse Leads Police to Co-Ed's Body - Strangers Seen By Mother

    Hollywood, Cal. Jan 1 (1969)

    Marina Elizabeth Habe, 17, co-ed daughter of author Hans Habe and actress Eloise Hardt, was found slain this afternoon in a ravine off Mulholland Drive, a few miles west of her home.

    Her body was found a little more than two days after she was abducted from her West Hollywood home as her mother watched from the front window.

    She had been stabbed a number of times. No murder weapon was found, police said.

    Detectives indicated they had clews to the identity of her killers.

    Find Girl's Purse

    Police found the body after a sightseeing couple found the slain girl's purse on the road. A search of the area, a desolate section at least a half mile from the nearest home, was made by police on foot. Miss Habe's body was found two hours later.

    She was lying on her back, fully clothed, under heavy brush, police said. An autopsy was performed, and police sought to learn if she had been sexually assulted.

    She was last seen alive when she left a friend's house at 3:15 am Monday. Her mother said she was awakened at 3:35 by the sound of a loud auto exhaust and went to the front window. Her daughter's auto was in the driveway. Parked alongside was a black sedan and between the autos stood a man.

    Stranger Shouts "Go!"

    The girl's mother said the black car backed out of the driveway and the strange shouted "Go!" to the driver before getting into the car, which sped west.

    Miss Hardt said that she did not see her daughter at this time.

    The girl's father, author of "Christopher and his Father", "The Mission", and "A Thousand Shall Fall", reportedly was on his way here from his home in Zurich, Switzerland.

    The girl's mother, divorced from Habe and remarried, has appeared in several movies and television shows. Her most recent film was "Games" with Simone Signoret.

    FBI is Informed

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation was informed immediately after the abduction, but did not actively participate in the search for the co-ed.

    Miss Habe, 113 pounds with brown hair and blue eyes, was on vacation from the University of Hawaii. She drove her car Sunday afternoon to the Sunset Boulevard home of John Hornburg, 22.

    Hornburg told police they met two other couples in a cafe. She left Hornburg's home at 3:15 am in her own car to return home. A second purse, containing a small amount of money was found in her small foreign sports car left in the driveway of her home.

    Miss Habe was graduated from University High School in West Los Angeles in May.

    Friends Since Childhood

    According to her family, she and Hornburg were not romantically involved, but had been friends since childhood. It was said that she had been dating another.

    Habe, 57, is an Austrian who laid aside a career as a journalist to fight the Nazis in World War Two, first with the 21st Infantry of foreign volunteers in the French Army, and after the fall of France, with the American Army.
    He won numerous combat decorations and wrote a book about his war experiences, "A Thousand Shall Fall".

    He formerly edited the Vienna Newspaper "Der Morgen" and covered the League of Nations before World War II.
     
  12. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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  13. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    This article from the Frederick Daily Leader on December 3, 1969 makes mention of both Marina Habe and [extremely briefly] "Sherry Doe."
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=3VlDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=r60MAAAAIBAJ&pg=1096,5644986&dq=marina-habe+murder&hl=en

    This article from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette is from when Ms. Habe's body was found (about 11 months prior to Sherry Doe's murder)
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WoMkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HlEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7232,8610&dq=marina-habe+murder&hl=en
     
  14. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    There are a lot of variables (Ms. Egnoski's height and eye color aren't listed, both of which would be extremely helpful to determine if she is Sherry Doe), but if they are consistent (which is a really big "IF"), I think Ruth Egnoski might be a possibility --
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/egnoski_ruth.html
    [​IMG]
    The photo is from 1966, which is long enough ago for her have let her hair grow and relocate to California. Reportedly, she took a bus from Wisconsin to Chicago in 1966 and that was when she was last seen.
     
  15. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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  16. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's another artist's sketch of Sherry Doe, along with a newspaper article about the discovery:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Source:
    http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/372-police-sketch-of-victim-and-article/

    And here's a you-tube video of "Simi Valley Sherry", taken after Manson was arrested.

    Charles Manson Family Member Simi Valley Sherri/ Danny DeCarlo Interviewed Backporch Tapes - YouTube

    They look similar, but SVS might have more chin than Sherry Cooper, but aside from that, they look like the same person. If they aren't the same Sherry, Sherry Cooper could be Sherry Doe.

    As for SVS, It is not clear when this video was taken. Manson was arrested on October 12, 1969. Sherry Doe's body was found on November 16, 1969. This video was taken after Manson was arrested, so for SVS to be Sherry Doe, the video would have had to have been taken sometime during the one month period from 12-Oct-69 to early November 1969. The portion of the video featuring Vincent Bugliosi was taken after the trial (he alludes to interviewing Danny "before the trial"). And SVS speaks of Manson being in prison, so it appears that she would have been alive well beyond the time of Sherry Doe's death.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Donald "Shorty" Shea (September 18, 1933 – August 26, 1969) was a Hollywood stuntman, actor and victim of the Charles Manson murders. The location of his body was not discovered until 1977, nearly a decade after his death. Manson family leader Charles Manson and family members Tex Watson, Steve "Clem" Grogan and Bruce Davis were eventually convicted of murdering Shea.

    In the video link contained in the above post, the two former Manson family members refer to the murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea. Here is a link to more information on him. They refer to Shorty having been dismembered and cut up into nine pieces. That was the rumor told at the time of his death. Shorty's body, however was not recovered until after 1977.

    Bugliosi refers to the interview having taken place BEFORE the Manson trial and also states that Shorty's murder was unsolved. That means that the program in which the interview was included was made before 1977, because that is when Manson and others were actually convicted of Shorty's murder.

    Note at the link that it was Shorty's murder in August 1969 that caused Barbara Hoyt (aka Barbara Rosenburg) to leave the ranch. Bugliosi states in his book that she ran away with Sherry Cooper.

    It would be nice to know exactly when this video interview of Sherry Cooper was made. Because if it made. If after 14 November 1969, it would tend to rule out Sherry Cooper as being Sherry Doe. If made before 14 November 1969, it could have been a reason for her death, since she seems to be speaking out against Manson and even states that she thinks Manson would be killed if he were to be let out of jail.

    The video does show her teeth well, and they seem to be more straight and less protruding than the sketch of Sherry Doe (Jane Doe number 59).

    Source:

    Donald "Shorty" Shea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LINK:

    Donald "Shorty" Shea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  18. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Here is a news article dated 24 November 1969, in which the writer speculates that 13 Los Angles area unsolved murders might be connected. Note that at the time, Tate and LaBianca murders, had not yet been tied to the Manson Family.

    The "Sherry Doe" murder is mentioned in the second to last paragraph.

    Could her murder be related to any of the others?


    -----------------------------------
    13 ‘OVERKILLS’ ARE UNSOLVED

    Monday, November 24th, 1969

    LOS ANGELES, Nov. 24

    – Unsolved murder is not a stranger to the Los Angeles area.

    Since the beginning of the year there have been 13 brutal slayings, most of which have been called “senseless” or “thrill murders” by police. They are not what could be called ordinary murders – those committed for revenge, punishment or in fits of anger.

    Authorities refuse to speculate on whether there is any connection between the 13 killings. The only apparent relation is that the murders were brutal – one of which was termed “overkills” by the county coroner – and they remain unsolved.

    The murders range from the Benedict Canyon massacre of actress Sharon Tate and four other persons to the beating death of an unidentified young woman.

    The latest occurred during the weekend. The mutillated bodies of a nude 19-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy were discovered Saturday. The victims were identified as Dorren Gaul, Albany, N.Y., and James A. Sharp, Crestwood, Mo. The faces of Miss Gaul and Sharp had been so badly mutilated police at first believed they were wounded at point-blank range with a shotgun. The victims had been beaten to death.

    The string of slayings began Jan. 1, when the body of Marina Elizabeth Habe, daughter of screenwriter Hans Habe and actress Eloise Hardt, was found in heavy brush off a mountain road in the Santa Monica Mountains. Police said she apparently had been abducted from the driveway of her mother’s home in West Hollywood. She had been stabbed to death.

    On May 22, the body of Rose Tashman, 19, a former college student, was found in an isolated area in the Hollywood Hills. She had been raped and strangled. Police believe she had been abducted, from the Hollywood Freeway after she stopped her car at an offramp because of a flat tire.

    The body of another young girl, Virginia Lynn Smith, 13, was found June 23 in a creek bed in a deserted canyon near her home in Claremont. She had been raped and strangled. Her nude body was found by two hikers. The vivacious brunette with blue eyes had been vice president of her class at school.

    The mass murder of actress Sharon Tate and four other persons followed on the night of Aug. 8 or the morning of Aug. 9. The Hollywood names involved brought international publicity. Miss Tate, coffee fortune heiress Abigail Folger, men’s hair stylist Jay Sebring, Polish emigree Voityck Frokowsky and 18-year-old Steven Parent had been shot or stabbed to death. There were footprints in pools of blood about the house rented by Miss Tate and the word “Pig” as scrawled in blood on a door. The only main clue police have revealed is that amber-rimmed eyeglasses, believed to be those of the killer, were found at the scene.

    The following night, on Aug. 10, the knife-slashed bodies of Mr. and Mrs. Leno A. LaBianca were found in their home in Los Angeles. The grisly scene was similar in some respects to that at the Benedict canyon home. Police theorized the slayings were the work of a “copy cat” killer.

    On Nov. 16, the body of an unidentified woman, about 25, was found in a brush-covered ravine in the Hollywood Hills. Police said the woman had been slashed with a knife over most of her body.

    The motives in all of the murders remain unclear and authorities admit that the longer time lapses the harder it may be to solve the crimes.

    LINK:

    http://www.cielodrive.com/archive/?p=707
     
  19. branwynbreeze

    branwynbreeze Active Member

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  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The site also indicates that the interview of Sherry Cooper and Danny DiCarlo was filmed around 1975.

    http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/2132-pictures-of-sherry-circa-1975/

    So that pretty much nixes the theory of Sherry Cooper (AKA Simi Valley Sherry) being Sherry Doe.
     
  21. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    You are probably correct in stating that the girl in the tape is not the unidentified murder victim. But this does not rule out the possibility that "Sherry Doe" might have been at the Manson ranch and might even have used the name Sherry Cooper or Simi Valley Sherry.

    Members of the Manson "family" were known to swap identities and use stolen or forged ID cards all the time. All of them went by nicknames or aliases.

    The murdered girl was identified by Ruby Pearl (a horse trainer at the ranch) as someone she saw at the ranch whom she knew as "Sherry". So that was probably the nickname she went by - whether or not it was her real name.

    I may have missed it, but did the girl in the tape actually state that her real name was Sherry Cooper? Or did she admit to being "Simi Valley Sherry"?

    The even bigger question would be did Bugliosi ever ask her about the unidentified murder victim?

    Did he ever ask ANY of the Manson family members who she was or who killed her?
     

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