Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by Richard, Mar 20, 2008.
Could there be a connection?!
I really think there is a connection; but how does one prove it?
Bumping for little Lisa Dickinson; who were those creeps that were crawling around California in the 70s ?
Bumping for Lisa Dickinson
There were a lot of creeps period in the 70s. Who was Rachel Hanna Ziselman?
Did you submit this possibility?
Wow! I don't remember hearing about this gal. I sure am familiar with the locations mentioned in the article. This is the area I grew up and Lisa and I are the same age.
I remember spending time at Heather Farms Park and feeling safe. Plesant Hill Bart Station would have felt threatening to me.
I lived three BART Stations away, but the economic differences between my "village" and Plesant Hill were very obvious even to a kid.
I'm interested and eager to do some nosing around on Lisa's behalf
Rachel Ziselman disappeared at age 11 from Pacific Palisades, Calif. on Sept.5, 1977.
Hi, mom2four717, thank you for your interest in Lisa's case and thank you for your offer to do some "nosing around". I actually wouldn't know exactly where to start. I do think Lisa's disappearance is connected to that of Tara Cossey as well as many other young girls and women in California in the 7Os and beyond. Do you have any specific ideas yet as to what you might do? Again, thank you.
I have been doing some research on some other cases and this crossed my memory. I and my mother are both natives, I spoke with my grandmother last night as well, so I will try and mention a few more things.
As I mentioned above my mother was best friends with Lisa in elementary schoool. I spoke with both her and my grandmother about their memories about this last night. It's been almost 4 decades, so I don't really know how much this will help.
- My mother and Lisa were 4 days apart, both born in April 1967. She was surprised when I told her the year this happened(they were 9). She thought they were much older, she said around 12. However, my mother said that both she and Lisa were both close as they were only children and had no brothers and sisters. She mentioned feeling like she was alot older alot of times.
- My grandmother did not remember Lisa's disapperence at all. She was shocked, keep in mind that this is 40 years later and she is in her 70s now. But my grandma usually has a memory like a hawk. She DID remember Lisa however. She mentioned that she was a beautiful child, a sweet girl, and that she was over a lot with my mother. My grandmother does not remember Lisa's parents at all. She thought that Lisa was a brunette though. She said she did not remember her being blonde. My mother recalls her being blonde but more dirty blonde.
The Weather/Her Curfew
- As I mentioned, September is a warm month is Northern California. I grew up in Pittsburg/Antioch, close to Walnut Creek. The weather here is usually in the low 70s to high 60s. It's actually very nice typically. September 5th, 1976 was a Sunday. The sunset was at 7:33. I looked up the weather that day, the high was 70, the low was 57. Keep in mind that it would have been sunny so it feels alot warmer, the wind was around 8mph. So, generally a very warm day. It would not have been strange for her to be riding her bike and not strange for her to have an 8PM curfew
Heather Park Farm
- I'm not sure where Lisa lived in WC, but it's a generally safe area. The area she was hanging out in is a middle-class neighborhood. Heather Park Farm, is just a regular city park with lawns and a two large lake/pondish areas. I was surprised they did not search this area
- I mentioned I thought the Park was quite far from BART. I mistakenly thought they were refering to the Walnut Creek BART Station and not the Pleasant Hill one. The Pleasant Hill Station is about a 1-2 mile walk from the park.
Contra Costa Canal
- The canal is just that. A canal and there is a trail next to it. Contra Costa Canal Trail is a trail that goes through several areas/towns and goes through Heather Park Farm.
- BART is our local subway system. It goes throughout the East Bay, South Bay, and San Francisco. In the 70s BART was a big deal. It first opened in 1972, so the BART station Lisa was finding her way to was only a few years old.
- BART stations are generally considered a place to be alert. It has been sometime since I have been there, but if I recall the Pleasant Hill BART station has a lot of weird entrances(most BART stations do) and it's dark in the station, even during the day.
-On a Sunday, it would have been DEAD, especially in the evening. There would have been very few people at the actual station. Trains run on a limited schedule and there's usually one ticket agent.
- BART Police? Yes, we have those. They don't really do much(except shoot people jk!). I have never seen a BART cop casually hanging out at a station. Well, I have seen their cars hanging around the station a lot. But especially in a suburban area on a Sunday.. I don't imagine there wouldnt be many on duty.
Photo of Pleasant Hill BART:
- My grandmother and mother have differing opinions on the general attitude of how safe the area was. My mother mentions that she remembers people not being particularly worried for their childrens safety. She remembers being able to wander pretty freely throughout her neighborhood. She said she remembers riding bikes was the go-to means of transportation for kids.
-My grandmother told me she would have never let my mother go out alone. Especially to BART or near the canal. My grandmother was also a victim of a crime when she was a young woman. So she has very real intense fears of crime in general. So, this could just be her paranoia.
- My grandmother does remember the 60s/70s being a scary time for young women in the bay area. The Zodiac Killer was a real media scare for bay area residents in the late 60s. In the early 70s, there was a string of murders in the North Bay of women hitchhikers, the Santa Rosa Hitchiker Murders.
- I just want to add that I think it might be a bit difficult for people who are not from/have not lived in California to realize how big and different it is. The Bay Area is a 6 hr drive from LA, but the culture is completely different and always has been. If you were to drive from end to end of the state it would take about 12 hours or more. So, I just don't buy the missing girl from Pacific Palisade is related to this. She absolutely could be, I could be wrong. But Pacific Palisade is about a 6 hour drive from Walnut Creek.
- Lastly, there were alot of dissappearences and a few murders of young girls in the bay area with blonde hair and blue eyes. They remain unsolved and I really wonder if they could be related.
Here's a list I made:
Jan 1969 - Walnut Creek, CA - Elaine Davis - blonde/blue eyes - 17 yrs old - murdered
Jan 1971 - Hayward, CA - Christine Eastin - blonde/blue eyes - 19 yrs old - missing
Jan 1973 - San Mateo, Ca - Anna Christian - blonde/brown eyes - 6 yrs old - missing
Apr 1974 - San Jose, CA - Cindy Sumpter - blonde/blue eyes - 9 yrs old - missing
Sept 1976 - Walnut Creek, CA - Lisa Dickinson - blonde/blue eyes - 9 yrs - missing
Jun 1980 - Antioch, CA - Suzanne A. Bombardier - blonde/blue eyes - 13 yrs - murdered
June 1988 - Pinole, CA - Amber Swartz - blonde/blue eyes - 7 yrs - missing
Nov 1988 - Hayward, CA - Michaela Garecht - blonde/blue eyes, 9 yrs - missing
Dec 1991 - Farfield, CA - Amanda(Nikki) Campbell - blonde/blue eyes, 4 yrs - missing
kellay, thank you for sharing all this info about the Walnut Creek area. I am a native Californian also but I'm not familiar with Walnut Creek. I am glad you are addressing the issue of so many missing blonde girls and women in California. Blondes make up approximately 2% of the world's population and about 15% of the U.S. population. Therefore, a disproportionate number of blonde females have been murdered or gone missing. I understand why you would not want to include Rachel Zeilselman in your list due to the geographical factor; but IMO , the monster(s) responsible for the above mentioned disappearances and slayings might have moved to Southern California for a while.
Here are a few more women and girls for the listec. 1972- Santa Rosa, CA- Yvonne Lisa Weber-blonde, 13 yrs (COD unknown; but she disappeared on Feb 4,1972 along with her good friend Maureen Louise Sterling.. The skeletal remains of both girls were found on 12-28-72 without clothing.) Dec. 1972-Santa Rosa, CA-- Lori Lee Kurtz- blonde, 13 yrs- found nude and lifeless( COD broken neck) July 1973 Santa Rosa, CA - Carolyn Nadine Davis-blonde-15yrs- sexually assaulted and murdered (poisoning) Oct.1974 Palo Alto, CA-Arlis Kay Perry -blonde- 19yrs-murdered ( tortured, beaten, choked, sexually assaulted and then murdered with an icepick to the base of her skull) May 1976 Berkeley, CA-Lynn Ruth Connes-blonde-20 yrs- missing- Sept.1982- Sunnyvale, CA-Karen Stitt- blonde -15-murdered (found nude, bound with her own clothing and dead from 60 stab wounds)
They had a suspect, who later confessed to Amanda (Nikki) Campbell's kidnap and murder. Not sure I believe Curtis Dean Anderson had anything to do with it, I think they just wanted the case closed. Timothy Binder was also a suspect, he later sued Fairfield Ca. for defamation and settled for $90,000.
I agree with you about the culture being completely different in the Bay Area and Southern California. But if someone (suspect)was based in the Bay Area a 6 hour drive south, north, east, cant really go that far west :thinking: is not that long. BUT I am thinking with the traffic in the past decade or so, many people commute 4 hours a day just to get to and from work now. I am not sure how it was in the 70s. I know I have family in both northern and southern California and the drive has never been that big of a deal, going back to the 70s. JMO.
There is no doubt in my mind who took this girl but right now there is no evidence.
May I ask who your suspect is? Thanks
Phillip Joseph Hughes was a serial killer, originally from Contra Costa County, who was convicted of three murders in the 70's. He is often named a strong suspect in this case but there is no evidence. There were about a dozen girls or young women murdered in the 70's in Contra Costa County that fit the pattern of a serial killer. Some have been solved but six, including Lisa's case have not. Four occurred between Nov 1969 and March 1970 in the part of the county near Walnut Creek. They were very likely committed by the same Perpetrator.
Lisa was the only Contra Costa victim who was an obvious child. The others were between 15 and 25 . Otherwise there was nothing that really either links or separates her case from the others.
Central Contra Costa County was very typical suburban than ranged from middle class to Rich. It had a reputation for a very low crime rate but the small communities had Police Departments that may not have been up to the challenge of this sort of thing.
Is there DNA for Lisa? These two photos seem very close.
Bumping for Lisa
Is her family active in the case?
Lisas case should have gotten more attention.
She lived in the Eichler homes where the EARONS GSK aka Joseph James DeAngelo,attacked his victims. Its just a few short streets, not a large area.
Can some sluething see if it could be related?
I think you could be onto something. Nobody knows for sure what JJD was up to all those years he was running around free. I wonder if there was DNA obtained and collected in Lisa's case.