Identified! CA - Long Beach - WhtMale 15-19 - 1392UMCA - 'Paid' stamp on hand- Jun'78 - Kenneth Nevada Williams

[CarlK90245]

wow. do we know that JP is missing or otherwise unaccounted for?

I left a voicemail message with Cerritos PD to ask if JP is listed as a missing person. I also found three of his classmates in Facebook and sent them PM's to ask whether they knew JP, and if so, if they have seen or heard from him since 1978. And if yes/no, respectively, if they know the names of any of his friends or relatives.

 

[Cubby]

JP seems to strongly resemble the UID, however in his untouched photo on the beanbag chair he appears to have quite a bit of acne not seen in the UID's photo. He also appears to have what looks like a scar on his upper lip (his right/our left) in both the 1976 and 1977 photos. There is no mention of a scar on the UID's lip.

 

[CarlK90245]

I spoke with a LA County detective regarding JP. She says that she has no record of a missing person in the State of California by that name. However, she says that record keeping was much different back then, and it's quite possible that the casefile got lost in the shuffle.

 

[Ambercat]

I noticed that Michael Gaughan who went missing at age 17 from El Paso, TX on July 20, 1975 looks quite a lot like this IUD. Mr. Gaughan's height and weight are about the same as the unidentified young man. The UID's eye's are listed as hazel, while Michael Gaughan's are listed as green. I'm not sure if the three years between when Michael Gaughan disappeared from Texas is too long to consider him to be the young man found in 1978

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[micheleonelonly]

I just wanted to offer my thoughts on the "Paid" stamp. 1978 was before I was even born, but these days bars seem to use really unique stamps to show if a person has paid their cover or had their ID checked. Some places even use a different stamp for every day of the week so you can't squeak in for free the next day.
This past weekend, I went out with some friends and came home with 3 "club tattoos," a frog, a funky swirly design, and fireworks.
I'm not sure if this was the habit of clubs back then or not, obviously. Just my 2 cents.

The resemblance between John Doe and JP from Cerritos is spooky, but I'm assuming that approach went nowhere.

 

[CarlK90245]

The resemblance between John Doe and JP from Cerritos is spooky, but I'm assuming that approach went nowhere.

I sent out a bunch of Facebook messages to Cerritos HS Class of 77 alumni, but I only got a response from one guy who knew him. They were on the same soccer team in HS, but he didn't know him very well, and he hadn't seen him since high school. JP is not listed in NCIC as a missing person.

I haven't entirely given up on this, but I'm not sure where to look next.

ETA: The one thing that leans me against this guy being our John Doe is that the Cerritos HS Class of 77 has a webpage. He is listed on their Alumni list, but he is not listed on the "missing list" (i.e., those alumni for whom they have been unable to locate current contact info).

http://www.webcove.com/chs77/

 

[Ambercat]

Recently, because of something I read about Oral Stuart Jr, I beginning to wonder if this young man's death was something more sinister than undetermined. This is what was said about Mr. Stuart's cause of death --

The cause of death was initially classified undetermined, though the medical examiner who worked on the case in 1974 came out of retirement to help police and coroner's investigators rule the death a homicide last year with the cause listed as blunt force trauma

<modsnip: broken link>
Sorry I keep referring back to Mr. Stuart, but there are a few UIDs who were found during the 1970s in the Long Beach area and I can't help thinking about how the information relates to them as well.

 

[outofthedark]

"PAID" stamp = amusement park? That was the first thing that came to my mind. When I go to Playland (Amusement park in British Columbia), they stamp your hand before you enter.

 

[Ambercat]

"PAID" stamp = amusement park? That was the first thing that came to my mind. When I go to Playland (Amusement park in British Columbia), they stamp your hand before you enter.

I think both Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm used to do the same in the 1980s (so they probably did in the 1970s as well). Those would be the two closest amusement parks to where he was found.

 

[CarlK90245]

I think both Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm used to do the same in the 1980s (so they probably did in the 1970s as well). Those would be the two closest amusement parks to where he was found.

As far back as I can remember, the Disneyland hand stamps were in invisible ink, viewable under a blacklight. I don't remember what the Knott's Berry Farm stamps looked like.

 

[Ambercat]

As far back as I can remember, the Disneyland hand stamps were in invisible ink, viewable under a blacklight. I don't remember what the Knott's Berry Farm stamps looked like.

Sorry...its been sort of a long time since I had been there. As soon as I read it, I remembered that they had sort of a yellow look to the ink.

Roller skating rinks also used to stamp your hands, too. I think those were popular back then.

 

[Ambercat]

It has been 34 years today since this young man was found in Belmont Shore. The Long Beach Press Telegram has an article about him, Shoreline Jane Doe, and another UID (a woman found near Esther St on the west side of Long Beach in 1989). There is a crime scene photo from the original investigation and a new [I believe] reconstruction of the UID --

<modsnip: broken link>
My hair stood on end when I read his cause of death in the article (until now, I had always thought his death was a toxicology issue) --

John Doe No. 146 could have still been in high school when he was strangled and his body was dumped in 1978, face down in the street in Belmont Shore. The long-haired teen looks like he is sleeping in the yellowed crime scene photos. Neither his body, found near Corona Avenue and Division Street, nor his clothing showed any signs of living on the streets.

Could he be "Front of Ripples?" He is only two or three blocks away (Ripples is located at Granada and Ocean Blvd). I had just intended to check the news headlines and go to sleep, yet when I read the Press Telegram article, I had to relay the information. fftobed:

 

[CarlK90245]

Here's the location where the John Doe was found. He was lying right where the "A" marker is in this photo on the north side of the street. E. Division Street is an eastbound one-way street.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5230...,+Long+Beach,+California+90803&gl=us&t=h&z=19


I wonder if the street was one-way in 1978. If it was eastbound one-way, it would be strange for someone to dump a body from the driver's side of the car. Either (1) there was a second passenger dumping the body from the rear-seat on the left-hand side of the car, or (2) the driver got out of the car and pulled the body out and dragged him to the side of the street (unlikely), or (3) he was driving the wrong-way on a one-way street when he dumped the body.


ETA: Oops, never mind. I can see it was a two-way street based on the positions of the cars in the crime scene photo.

 

[CarlK90245]

It has been 34 years today since this young man was found in Belmont Shore. The Long Beach Press Telegram has an article about him, Shoreline Jane Doe, and another UID (a woman found near Esther St on the west side of Long Beach in 1989). There is a crime scene photo from the original investigation and a new [I believe] reconstruction of the UID --

http://www.presstelegram.com/rss/ci_20769916/cold-cases-when-even-victims-are-mystery

My hair stood on end when I read his cause of death in the article (until now, I had always thought his death was a toxicology issue) --

Could he be "Front of Ripples?" He is only two or three blocks away (Ripples is located at Granada and Ocean Blvd). I had just intended to check the news headlines and go to sleep, yet when I read the Press Telegram article, I had to relay the information. fftobed:

I noticed in that article that Detective Jones completely misstated the way CODIS and DNA testing works.

Before detectives Jones and Dugan's last day on the job Thursday, all five profiles were entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS), on the chance that a match might still be found. A relative can be swabbed and have their DNA compared to the DNA of the victims, though only if the relative is male, because an X chromosome must be present to make a match, Jones explained.

BBM.

First of all, it's the "Y" chromosome that is present only in males, not the "X" (Males are XY, females are XX).

Secondly, the relative doesn't have to be male to be entered into the CODIS database. For nucDNA testing, any close relative, male or female can submit a DNA swab for comparison.

And then there's mitochondrial (mtDNA) testing, which also can utilize the mtDNA from both males and females (provided that their familial chain that connects them consists of all female relatives.

If Jones was correct, then he wouldn't have been able to enter the female UID's in CODIS because they don't have a Y chromosome.

I wonder how many female MP family members have been told incorrectly by Jones that they cannot submit DNA to CODIS because they are not male.

 

[Ambercat]

Recently, I e-mailed John Garcia, one of the owners of Ripples inquiring if they had used a PAID stamp on customers' right hand in 1978. He responded that he couldn't remember if they had or not. After looking at the reconstruction of the UID and reading the Press Telegram article, he said this about the UID --

I read the article you sent me and that person you talk about could have been one of my customers back then, but I just am not able to positively say that he was. Maybe if there were more pictures that we could see I just might be able to help out, but with just this photo is an almost impossibility.

Ripples is on Ocean Blvd at Granada, about 4 blocks from where the unidentified young man was found.
http://goo.gl/maps/Igx8

In the past, I read that John Doe "Wilmington," Edward Daniel Moore, Paul Fuchs, and Kevin Clark Bailey (previously John Doe "Airplane Hill") were believed to have been seen at Ripples prior to being found strangled (probably there are other victims of Randy Kraft who had gone there as well, these are the only young men I can think of off the top of my head). Also, Keith Crotwell was last seen alive at the parking lot on the other side of Ocean Blvd.

 

[CarlK90245]

Did you send him the postmortem and my recon?

WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums...em Photos/2616845050045078242S600x600Q851.jpg

I wish I had saved the pm of John Doe Wilmington when it was still up on the LA Co Coroner website.

 

[Ambercat]

Did you send him the postmortem and my recon?

WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums...em Photos/2616845050045078242S600x600Q851.jpg

I wish I had saved the pm of John Doe Wilmington when it was still up on the LA Co Coroner website.

I sent him a link to your reconstruction; I was a bit hesitant to send him the actual postmortem.

I know what you mean about John Doe Wilmington. There's something about him that doesn't come through on the reconstructions.

 

[Ambercat]

Recently, I noticed Jean Vincent on the Doe Network who was from Canada, but was last seen in April 1978 in Arizona. Even though he was 20 years old when he went missing, there is something about him that really reminds me of this UID.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/3758dmon.html

 

[Cymro]

1 year and 1 inch outside the age range. Other looks are similar, as is weight.

Circumstances are not inconsistent - three months between disappearance and location of the body, and involving someone who took off 6 hours in one direction to look for a job... if that didn't work out, he could easily have ended up 6 hours in another direction, especially if his choices were go home or head to where the apparent prosperity is.

Good find!

 

[Ambercat]

I e-mailed Daniel Machian (from the LA County Coroner's office) and the Missing Persons Department at the Ottawa Police asking if they could be the same person. Clines Corner (Torrance County), NM is sort of an unusual place to go to look for a job. I wonder if he had met someone in Flagstaff who offered him something there or if it was an advertisement or ???

On a side note, I really believe that the UID that this tread is about was murdered by Randy Kraft. If the UID is in fact Jean Vincent, it adds another dimension to the "Vince M" notation on his list for Vincent Cruz Mestas (and why Mr. Mestas wasn't listed as simply Vince).