CA CA - Long Beach, WhtMale 15-19, 1392UMCA, 'Paid' stamp on hand, Jun'78

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by dearmont, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. dearmont

    dearmont New Member

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    I could not find a thread on this - anyone have any information?
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1392umca.html

    http://coroner.co.la.ca.us/htm/uipdetail.cfm?proc_flg=L&unid_case_num=1978-06979 (**Warning! Post-mortem photo contained in link!)

    Unidentified White Male

    • The victim was discovered on June 3, 1978 in Long Beach, Los Angeles County, California
    • Estimated Date of Death: Day of Discovery

    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 15-19 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'7-5'11"; 130-145 lbs.
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; hazel eyes.
    • Clothing: Blue t-shirt with pocket, size 42-44. Blue Levi's; brown leather belt; blue/white running shoes, "redwings"; blue socks.
    • Fingerprints: Right - 16 TT 06 15 11; Left - 15 06 13 CI 08


    • Case History
      The victim was located lying face down on the street at Division Street, One half block East of Corona Street in Long Beach, CA.
      Pronounced dead at the scene, appears to have been dumped at this location.
      He had a stamped imprint of "paid" on the back of his right hand.
     
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  2. tatertot

    tatertot Well-Known Member

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    His IdentifyUs.org page: https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=4428

    I've come across his case on the various UID sites and would love to see this one solved!

    While it's possible the "paid" stamp could indicate something sinister, I think it's more likely that shortly before his death he visited a friend who worked at a gas station or store and was messing with the supplies in his/her desk, and stamped his own hand. I can see someone that age joking around that way.
     
  3. Julessleuther

    Julessleuther Well-Known Member

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    JMO, but he looks older than 15-19 to me. I wonder how they made that determination?
     
  4. Fairy1

    Fairy1 VOTE!!!

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    I think so too Jules. Was the "paid" stamp temporary ink or an actual tattoo? If it was just ink, I'm thinking he was at some kind of club or special even before being killed. If that was the case, it might be a good starting point.

    I was in L.A. - and more specifically - "Hollyweird" - the past few days. Honestly, there is no telling where this kid may have been from if he wasn't from the area.
     
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  5. tatertot

    tatertot Well-Known Member

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    The coroner's site describes the ink as a "stamped imprint" so it's probably safe to assume it was not a tattoo. (Listing it under the tattoos category is confusing.) Good idea that it might have been a club's way of marking him as a paid attendee. That makes far more sense than my theory.

    Considering those stamps are usually gone several handwashings later and he was found at 4:15 a.m., I'll bet if it was a concert he had attended it on June 2, 1978, the day before. I doubt a huge stadium concert would use such a generic stamp for patrons, which makes me think it could have been a show at a smaller club.

    I see a very vague resemblance to Robert Coe, missing March 12, 1978 from Austin, TX, but Coe seems to have a mole/birthmark on his chin that John Doe doesn't have and the height is off by three inches:

    http://charleyproject.org/cases/c/coe_robert.html
     
  6. dearmont

    dearmont New Member

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    I wonder if he had attended a baseball game at one of the stadiums in Long Beach - Veterans Stadium or perhaps a water sports event at Long Beach Marine Stadium - and that is where the stamp came from? I would think there are records on events for the dates 2-3 June 78?
     
  7. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have not found any possible matches for this case, but I spent a little more time working on the reconstruction.

    The Doe Network:
    Case File 1392UMCA http://doenetwork.org/cases/1392umca.html

    [​IMG]

    WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK
    http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums...em Photos/2616845050045078242S600x600Q851.jpg

    Unidentified White Male

    * The victim was discovered on June 3, 1978 in Long Beach, Los Angeles County, California
    * Estimated Date of Death: Day of Discovery

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 15-19 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'7-5'11"; 130-145 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; hazel eyes.
    * Clothing: Blue t-shirt with pocket, size 42-44. Blue Levi's; brown leather belt; blue/white running shoes, "Redwings"; blue socks.
    * Fingerprints: Right - 16 TT 06 15 11; Left - 15 06 13 CI 08

    Case History
    The victim was located lying face down on the street at Division Street, One half block East of Corona Street in Long Beach, CA.
    Pronounced dead at the scene, appears to have been dumped at this location.
    He had a stamped imprint of "Paid" on the back of his right hand.
     
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  8. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Browsing through HS yearbooks in the Long Beach area, i found this guy's senior photo in the David Starr Jordan High School (in Long Beach) 1976 yearbook. (Although I've looked through dozens of yearbooks, For some reason I keep finding possibles for different UID's from that school)

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Here is the Side-by-sice with the Postmortem photo:
    ***WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK BELOW***
    http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/10592/2115279670045078242S600x600Q85.jpg

    Per the mod's instructions, when discussing persons not known to be missing, we should not refer to them by name, so I will refer to him by his initials RWH. If anyone wants to do some research, and cannot find his name (or cannot access the yearbooks in Classmates), PM me, and I will provide his full name to you.

    Aside from the slightly less bushy eyebrows, he looks just like him IMO.

    I can't find any evidence in the various social networking and phonebook sites that he is still alive.

    Also, I contacted Daniel Machian a few days ago to find out if he could provide me with any info on this John Doe's dental characteristics.

    Yesterday, after looking through the case file, and contacting Long Beach PD, he told me that they have absolutely no dental information pertaining to him.

    However, they were able to find biological samples, and they are going to forward the samples to the State of California DNA lab.

    I have not submitted RWH's name yet. I did send a Classmates PM to a different DS Jordan alum with the same surname to find out if he knos anything about RWH, or whether his whereabouts have been accounted for since June 1978.
     
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  9. tabacue

    tabacue Member

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    Wow. The picture and reconstruction look almost identical!
     
  10. trigger

    trigger Well-Known Member

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    Truly a definite match IMO.
     
  11. Tom Friendly

    Tom Friendly Member

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    Why is there a recreation in the case file? Is that an age enhancement or is the photo not accurate? Just wondering the motive behind that.

    The UID looks a lot like this one too:

    David Arthur Stack
    Missing since June 1, 1976 from Broomfield, Broomfield County, Colorado
    Classification: Endangered Missing
    In June 1976, David Stack left his residence in the 200 block of Laurel Street in Broomfield, Colorado, with the stated intention of hitchhiking to California.
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4309dmco.html
    https://www.colorado.gov/apps/coldcase/casedetail.html?id=2261

    I'm wondering if one of these two cases (the UID and David Stack) could have the wrong year. A hand written 6 can look a lot like an 8 and if that were the case the month of June is accurate.
     
  12. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I did the facial reconstruction on this UID (and about 25 others) for DoeNetwork back in March and April, But someone complained that I am not a "board certified" forensic artist, so they stopped using my reconstructions.

    Just recently, I decided to do a little more work on this image (and a couple others), but DoeNet won't replace the old images with the revisions. So when I started this thread, I posted the revised image here.

    This is not an age progression, it is just a photo of RWH side-by-side with the most recent version of the UID's facial reconstruction. This all occurred prior to my finding RWH's photo in the yearbook. My work on the revision was not at all influenced by the yearbook photo of RWH.

    There is a pretty good resemblance, although he is a little too tall. The LA County Coroner website lists the UID's height at 5'7". (I don't know where DoeNet got the 5'7" to 5'11" height range)

    http://coroner.co.la.ca.us/htm/uipdetail.cfm?proc_flg=S&unid_case_num=1978-06979


    BTW, I was able to find where RWH's brother (I believe) lives, but all of the listed telephone numbers for him turned out to be wrong numbers.

    With a little more digging, I figured out where the wife of RWH's brother works. She wasn't at work today, but she is expected to be at work tomorrow. So I should know by tomorrow whether RWH has been seen alive since 1978.
     
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  13. Tom Friendly

    Tom Friendly Member

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    So you don't even really know if RWH is a missing person? That's going to be one interesting phone call. Let me know how that goes as I'm very interested in your progress.
     
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  14. RubyRed

    RubyRed "Keep on Truckin"

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  15. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    RWH is not our guy.

    I just spoke with his sister-in-law, and she says that just she just spoke with him yesterday.

    Back to the drawing board.
     
  16. Anubis

    Anubis New Member

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    This poor kid sounds like the victim of a party overdose (they call them Rave's now, they used to call them Undergrounds in the 70's in my area (Northern California)). The Doenetwork.org discriptions are so vague sometimes. It would be nice if they listed cause of death. I wonder what the toxicology reports came back at? So many kids were runaways or "free spirits" back then.
     
  17. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree. I am from the same generation, and when I was that age, there were alot of weekend parties like that where everyone would pitch-in for a keg of beer and everyone who contributed would get their hand stamped. Others who didn't pitch in were allowed to attend, but they weren't allowed to drink from the keg.

    I don't think the stamp was from one of the local clubs, as LE would be able to trace the "Paid" stamp to a specific establishment.

    Given where he was found and the layout of the streets, I am thinking that he may have come from Orange County, which begins just southeast of Long Beach. He was found one block south of East 2nd Street (which becomes Westminster Ave in Orange County).

    See Map
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...65,-118.090668&spn=0.083057,0.196209&t=h&z=13

    To someone wanting to turn off a busy street onto a side street to dump a body, it doesn't make sense given the layout of the streets that they would have come from the North (e.g., Lakewood or Bellflower) or from the West (e.g., San Pedro or Palos Verdes).

    They would have had to drive down too many side streets coming from the North, and it is too complicated of a maze coming from the West.
     
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  18. sealevel

    sealevel Member

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    There is a (locally) famous gay nightclub called "Ripples" that is very close to where he was found. Second Street/Belmont Shores is an area that draws people for nightlife and parties; it is definitely a destination, and would not be a place someone would think of as a body dump. It's a beach community and too densely populated.

    Randy Kraft was operating in that area during that time period. Dumping a body without abusing the victim was not his modus operandi, but if he was interrupted, who knows? Or, the victim could have just been a kid who overdosed, and his 'friends' dumped him in a place they figured he would be found fairly quickly and taken to a hospital. He could easily have been a runaway from another area, as Southern California (and especially the beaches) is well-known as a destination for kids on the run.
     
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  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Forensic question: What does it mean when they say it appears he was dumped? How can they tell he didn't just fall into the street? Is there some particular injury, or something?
     
  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The case at the link below is a Randy Kraft victim found in Long Beach.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1155umca.html

    Prior to his death, he was seen in the local gay bars. There used to be a very clear postmortem photo of this guy on the LA County Coroner site, but it (along with all other postmortem photos) was removed from the site. The two facial reconstructions are fairly close, but they don't quite capture his overall look.

    ETA: One of Kraft's murders occurred on June 11, 1978 (8 days after Belmont Shore John Doe's discovery). This murder occurred immediately after he was let out of jail. Kraft kept a "scorecard" (i.e., a cryptic list of his victims), and on his scorecard, he notated this murder with the words "Jail Out". I am unable to find any info on why he was jailed in this instance, or how long he was in jail.
     
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