CA CA - Long Beach, WhtMale 15-19, 1392UMCA, 'Paid' stamp on hand, Jun'78

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by dearmont, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. AkitasAreLovely

    AkitasAreLovely Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a good shot for them being Front of Ripples. Kraft, if he was responsible, probably didn't spend too much time with this victim. The severity of the torture was definitely correlated to Kraft's mood at the time, so he may not have been especially sadistic, horrible at it is to even speculate though.

    Judging by the way the names are matched to victims, the list is definitely NOT in chronological order. Kraft's probable first two victims were entries 1 and 3 on his list, but his fourth, HARI KARI, is what I believe to be a reference to the murder of David Michael Sandt in 1975, definitely not one of his earliest victims. Plus he had references to two July 1982 victims (DEODERANT and DOG, which were entry 20 and 21) before many 1970s victims.
     


  2. bombardier

    bombardier Well-Known Member

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    I emailed the NamUs correspondent last year asking if they had ever compared this boy to Andy Lepley, and still to this day, I haven't heard back/seen either of them listed as rule-outs. Even if circumstances seemed iffy I thought it was worthwhile to look into it based on appearance alone.
    I don't know if they actually DID look into it (and just haven't updated databases) or if it got forgotten and buried amongst other tips. If anyone wants to e-mail the NamUs correspondents/the investigating agencies directly in hopes of generating a response, please do :p
     
  3. Savemecastiel

    Savemecastiel Well-Known Member

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  4. Springrain

    Springrain Who killed Kylen Schulte and Crystal Beck of Moab?

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    So I'm guessing Kraft saw him exit from the front door of Ripples and that was when he caught his attention, but the emphasis on "FRONT" makes me wonder if there could have been some significance to the front of the bar besides him first seeing him there, like possibly struck him unconscious? I don't think it's impossible that he could have rendered him unconscious or something at the front of the bar and have it be passed off as a barfight or something. I wonder if the "paid" was for another party or bar and he was heading towards Ripples (probably alone) and met Kraft at the front of Ripples. Then something happened from there.

    Of course, I'm just theorizing.

    I need to go back to February 1973 Wilmington John Doe's thread after I hit the hay. He is also one that I would love to see ID'd.

    I have mentioned this before in this thread, but my mother is originally from this area of Long Beach and only a bit younger than some of Kraft's victims, and she had NEVER heard of Kraft until I told her about him, which astounded me especially with her having 2 brothers. Her thinking was, many areas of Long Beach just had so much crime that it may have just been thought to be unconnected murders at the time.
     
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  5. Springrain

    Springrain Who killed Kylen Schulte and Crystal Beck of Moab?

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    I spent this morning in Long Beach and I thought of this Doe. I hope more progress is made on his case soon.
     
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  6. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    @othram, you guys have done an amazing job in giving the UID their names back.

    Amazing news that the Woodlawn JD got her identity yesterday.

    I think that you guys can help with the Long Beach John Doe. I’m sure that the funding will be done pretty quickly.
     
  7. Grungster

    Grungster Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think they have JD’s DNA unfortunately, but if they still have his personal items, they might be able to collect something from that.
     
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  8. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    I think that he was cremated, I wonder if any DNA swap was taken before that.

    I’m sure that they still have his clothing, preserved.
     
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  9. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly certain they do have a DNA profile for this set of remains. Whether or not it's something which can be used for forensic genealogy, I don't know. But I believe his DNA is in CODIS.
     
  10. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info!
    Do you know if the item or swab is preserved after the DNA is put on CODIS?
     
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  11. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    That I wouldn't know, sorry. I'm hoping whatever ever they used to obtain the DNA sample was preserved. They had to have kept some bio material, because DNA wasn't really a thing when he died, and they obtained it somehow.
     
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  12. AkitasAreLovely

    AkitasAreLovely Well-Known Member

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    I think they were aware of both Long Beach Does from the 1970s. I know LA County was trying to test DNA on some socks found there.
     
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  13. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I didn’t know that there were a pair of socks nearby.

    As far as I’m aware, LBJD was found wearing dark blue socks.
     
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  14. AkitasAreLovely

    AkitasAreLovely Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry, I forgot I was in this specific thread, not the Othram thread. There were clothes on this victim, yes. Another John Doe found a year later had a sock found with them. Clothes should probably be saved and could be tested for DNA.
     
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  15. HeeBeeGigi

    HeeBeeGigi New Member

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    Hello all, new to WS. Found this case via...ready for this lengthy explanation...another IG/blog I follow (nothing to do with sleuthing/unsolved crimes) and in her weekend reading included the article AARP had written about Carl and there 'found' this case.
    1. I was thinking the same thing when I saw his picture...he's a baby...more at the 15-17 age...those freckles disappear once you start hitting 20 or so.
    2. Re: PAID stamp. I know a lot of focus has been in Ripples/victim possibly gay. But, Elvis Costello and The Attractions performed at Millikan HS on June 1, 1978. Could he have attended that? Was he a lower classman? I know from attending concerts at high schools in the 1980's that they do stamp your hand to confirm you paid. So there's that thought. Concert 1978-06-01 Long Beach - The Elvis Costello Wiki
    3. The tennis shoes aren't 'RedWing' they are made by Pro Training. Could the word Pro Training on the side of the shoe been misread as 'Red Wing?' I could see a bit of that. The Deffest®. A vintage and retro sneaker blog. — Vintage four stripe sneakers by Pro Training
    As with many/all of these cases, especially of super young people...why hasn't anybody come for them? That's what pains me is this boy (and mind you I was 10 at the time of his murder) died a painful, horrid death and nobody came for him. From what I've read elsewhere unclaimed bodies are kept for 4 years then cremated and placed in a mass grave somewhere in L.A. county.

    I grew up in La Palma, and was born in Long Beach - so all of this was literally taking place in my backyard. I can now see, as an adult, my parents did a good job of shielding me and my sisters from all the serial killings that were going between 1970-1989. I remember living in fear the summer of 1985 due to Richard Ramirez.

    I really hope this JD finds his family, or at least we can start calling him by his real name.

    Thanks!
    G
     
  16. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Welcome to websleuths. Interesting point about Elvis Costello.

    Yes, there is a county cemetery on the corner of 1st and Lorena in the Boyle Heights district of Los Angeles. For the past 100 years, all unidentifieds and indigents in Los Angeles county have been cremated and buried in that cemetery under markers indicating only the year of death.
     
  17. HeeBeeGigi

    HeeBeeGigi New Member

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    Thanks for the welcome.

    And in looking at a map and the lone crime scene photo I've seen, the car he was in more than likely came down the alley he was found next to. They pushed/dumped his body out to the right as they were making their left turn on Division, a one-way street.

    Assuming those residents were interviewed? In the short time between his dumping and his body being found, you just know someone had to see something. I mean, it's 1978...cars are not quiet. They're still made of steel at this point. They squeak and make noise. It's a early June morning in a busy retail and residential area.
     
  18. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to WS @HeeBeeGigi ! I hope you stick around! :) Thanks for your thoughts and insight.
     
  19. Grungster

    Grungster Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Websleuths HeeBeeGibi!

    I'm going to look for a live video from the concert - people upload those a lot. Maybe I might be able to find him and my dad, who taped a bunch of bands at his venue during the 2000s, could possibly help me.
     
  20. HeeBeeGigi

    HeeBeeGigi New Member

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    Back to the crime scene photo Long Beach John Doe 1978 body2 Stock Photo - Alamy...which was really a photo taken by a local/passerby. Let's focus in on the marks on his left wrist - looks like he was bound at some point. And the more I thought about it, I think he was placed on the street. Look at his positioning and his feet. If he was shoved out of a car, I don't believe he would have landed laid out like that. I could be wrong. What does the back of his t-shirt say? This could be a big clue. Also, in looking at the high res picture namus.gov posted, this boy never even had his first shave. Soft peach fuzz all along the sides of his face and a few longer hairs coming in over his top lip.

    Once again, more questions than answers.

    Thanks for listening to my stream of thoughts!
     

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