CA CA - Los Angeles Co., Wht/HispFem UP7573, AsianMale UP7571, Angeles Forest, Dec'09

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by CarlK90245, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_14072006

    Skull is found in wildfire burn area
    From wire reports
    Posted: 12/25/2009 09:54:22 PM PST

    A human skull was found on a hillside in the Angeles National Forest and authorities plan to return to search for more remains, a homicide detective said early Friday.

    "Investigators were out there about eight hours," Detective Peter Hecht of the sheriff's Homicide Bureau said. "But they can't dig at night. They need forensic archaeologists and doctors."

    The discovery of human remains was made around 5:35 p.m. Thursday on the Angeles Forest Highway near mile marker 19.36, said Deputy Rick Pedroza of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

    Mile marker 20 is near Lucas Creek, a steep drainage that feeds Big Tujunga Canyon above the Big Tujunga Dam, according to a duty officer at the Crescenta Valley sheriff's station.

    "It was a skull, found by a hiker," said Los Angeles County Coroner's Investigator Jerry McKibben. "They're going to go back up there (today) to search."

    The hillside where the skull was found is in or near a recently burned part of the forest, McKibben said. The Angeles Forest Highway winds its way through mountain watersheds that sustained severe damage during the Station Fire in August and September.

    "Apparently it's part of the burn area, but it sounds like the bones are pre-fire," McKibben said. "Just from the condition of the skull, it sounds like it was skeletonized before the fire. It's definitely a skull, not attached to the body."
     
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  3. Pandora

    Pandora New Member

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  4. dreamweaver

    dreamweaver New Member

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    http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_14075594?source=rss_viewed





    ANGELES NATIONAL FOREST - The investigation into a human skull found with an apparent bullet hole in it in the Angeles National Forest on Thursday led to the discovery of a second human skull in the same area Saturday.
    The second set of human remains were discovered about 10:30 a.m. near Angeles Forest Highway mile marker 17, about 2 miles south of where hikers discovered another skull Thursday afternoon, Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said.
    The remains appeared to have been in the forest prior to the massive Station Fire that burned large portions of the forest - including the area where the remains were found - after it erupted in August, officials said. "From what I understand, they'd been there quite a while," Los Angeles County sheriff's Sgt. Jeff Hardt said. Officials declined to estimate how long the bones may have been there.

    ..more at link..
     
  5. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    Are they thinking it's a dumping ground for someone?
    Or just coincidence?
     
  6. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Angeles Crest Hwy and Angeles Forest Hwy are well-known dumping grounds for bodies. They are desolate mountain highways that are an easy drive from the Los Angeles basin and San Fernando Valley. But I would think that the close proximity of the skulls to each other would suggest that they were dumped by the same person(s). Either a double-homicide or a serial killer.
     
  7. future criminologist

    future criminologist Active Member

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  8. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I suppose the timeframe could go that far back, although I doubt it because the numerous fires that have swept through there since 1969, and the subsequent mudslides and flash floods since 1969 would have either destroyed the bones or swept them into the reservoir below where they were found.

    And aside from the timeframe, I doubt that these were Manson victims. For one, the Manson family did not bother to dispose of their victims. They left them right in place where they murdered them, and enjoyed the spectacle that they left behind.

    Secondly, they used knives, not guns.

    The Angeles National Forest is a vast, largely unpopulated mountainous area in the northeast end of Los Angeles County that separates the L.A. Basin and San Fernando Valley (i.e., the two primary population centers) from the Mojave desert communities of Palmdale and Lancaster. Angeles Crest highway is a 70-mile mountain road that snakes through these mountains (See Map).

    Angeles Forest.JPG
     
  9. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    After a little thought, I am starting to think that these murders may be unrelated.

    The fact that one skull had a bullet hole, and the other skull showed some other form of trauma (presumably other than a bullet hole) would suggest that they were not killed in the same act.

    Also, the articles indicate that they were found two miles apart in a creek bed. Just this year, we had a large forest fire in the area followed by heavy rains (by Los Angeles standards) a couple of weeks ago. If the bodies were left in the vegetation in different locations prior to the fire, the fire would eliminate the vegetation that was holding the bodies in place, and the water from the rainstorms would wash the skulls into the creek bed.

    As I wrote earlier, that area is a good place to dump a body because there are few other places in Los Angeles with so few people around to see what you are doing. I would think that there are probably many more bones in the same area.
     
  10. future criminologist

    future criminologist Active Member

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    ugh, creepy. This just makes me want to have the whole area excavated! Think of how many cases you could possibly solve. But then again, I don't think the state of California has the budget for that kind of undertaking right now :-(.
     
  11. future criminologist

    future criminologist Active Member

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    side note - this is exactly why I am not a woodsy person. When I see woods and large rural areas now, I don't think about the beauty as much as how many remains are possibly buried there.
     
  12. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think of the same thing when I see the Florida Everglades.

    How many of our Florida MP's were thrown in the Everglades and eaten by alligators?

    And these MP cases will remain just that forever.
     
  13. dsntslp

    dsntslp New Member

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    Future,
    It's funny you say that. When hubby is driving I now see every piece of land we drive by as a prospective search area, lol.
     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  15. Billylee

    Billylee New Member

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    OMG! Don't ever come to OR you'll never sleep! lol I dunno, but I see dumpsters in NYC just as scary a dumping ground!
     
  16. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My sister lives in Redmond Oregon. There are underground caverns that run all through that area. They were formed in ancient times when lava flowed over the landscape and formed into large tubes. She took me into one near the Redmond Airport that from the outside looked like just a hole in the ground but turned out to be a cavern a mile long.

    In fact, as I recall, it was known as skeleton cave, so fortunately the dumped bodies in that particular cave had already been found before I got there .
     
  17. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Wow. That's creepy.

    I googled and it appears that Skeleton Cave has been gated off, partly from vandalism and partly to help restore bat populations. Wonder if that's enough to keep the bodies out.

    And back on topic, I guess until they get some more information about those skulls, there's no use even speculating about ID. Could be thousands of possibilities.
     
  18. tehcloser

    tehcloser New Member

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    Jewelry found near skulls in Los Angeles forest





    LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Los Angeles County sheriff's detectives hope jewelry found near two skulls in the Angeles National Forest may help identify the deceased and reveal more information about how they died.

    Three jewel-encrusted rings and a gold necklace were found near the skulls of a man and woman in an area of the forest that was ravaged by flames in the massive Station Fire in August.

    The skulls were found in the burned-out area Dec. 24 and 26.

    Detective John Duncan says it appears there was some trauma to at least one of the skulls. He says there may have been a bullet hole in the male skull.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CALIFORNIA_SKULLS_FOUND?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
     
  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This is the case that comes to mind when we were discussing the area on this thread.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/houchman_michalle.html

    Michelle's narrative mentions the city of Acton. This is where Angeles Forest Highway (as oppoded to Angeles Crest) begins from the 14 freeway, so Michelle's body was probably dumped pretty close to where these skulls were found.

    The narrative also goes on to mention the cases of Peter Davis and his wife Joan.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_peter.html
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_joan.html

    There is not enough info on the bodies to even think of them in terms of possibles. I am sure there are hundreds more.

    By the way, carbuff's article mentioned several famous murder victims dumped on Angeles Crest and Angeles Forest Hwy. Another one that comes to mind was the 1995 case of Linda Sobek, the Raiders cheerleader who was raped and murdered by a photographer while they were out on a presumed photo shoot. Her body was dumped in the same area.
     
  21. Cymro

    Cymro New Member

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    Could this be a murder suicide? The man beats the woman to death, goes to dispose of the body, shoots himself, bones dissipate over time until being found?

    Otherwise we're left with two bodies, killed by different methods:

    If a double homicide, why kill two different ways? A killer would probably choose the easiest method to enable him to control the situation with what he had at hand.

    If a serial killer, it's one who changes the gender of his victims and his method of killing, but disposes of bodies together... seems odd.

    Or they could be totally unrelated... which implies that the only person ever to discover the first dump site was going to dispose of his own victim... unless of course the two were quite widely separated.
     

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