Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by CARIIS, Dec 3, 2016.
Terrific sluething TY!!
On the Them Are Us Too FB page, there is a post from December 6 that says something like "this is the last song Cash and I recorded together". Not an exact quote.
The song is called Angelene and it is amazing!
I agree- there was something that really bothered me about the pic. In the gut - and it is interesting the way you worded it-- my initial reaction was this is not a Dennys and it was taken BEFORE the tragedy.
And the way your worded is actually what struck me (but did not know why) and its true - this just does not "emotionally" look like a group of folks who just went thro some horrific part of living.
This is about the fire in Oakland and the victims.
Do not get political on this thread. Your politics are not the topic here.
There is a lot of justifiable anger about this entire situation. I'm definitely one of the people that feels a lot of contempt for Ion and I do think many of his actions were outrageous enough that he should be held accountable in a court of law. But no matter how much anger we have - at Ion, at the building owner, at the total system breakdown that put so many lives at risk - we need to keep in mind that there is a community in mourning right now. Emotions are high on all sides and everyone mourns in a slightly different way. I think the most important thing right now is showing support for all the innocent victims and their families. No matter who we feel is responsible, nothing will take away their pain right now. I know anger is a stage in the grief process but a lot of the families probably haven't reached that point yet. All we can do is support them right now.
Apologies if this was posted already.
The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse
Absolutely heartbreaking details.
Ion and his wife should spend the rest of their lives behind bars. Those who survived should be treated with empathy and respect, whether they have forgiven Ion or not.
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Some creative ideas here in trying to help preserve artist collectives in a safe manner. A new web site called "saferspace" is also trying to help the artist community From the site:
IMO that's a wonderful way to make use of members of the community who are professionals, like electricians, carpenters, etc. and want to donate their time helping artist collectives. I think if they are released from liability or at least partly released then many would step forward. Customize city codes specifically for warehouse collectives. Find an insurance company willing to write a policy.
On a personal note but relevant to the discussion, I'm older than the Oakland artists but am a musician. Luckily I don't depend on it to make a living, lol, but I'm very involved in the music community. We share some things in common but in different ways. We don't live together but when we get together for sessions and festivals we are very much like a big family.
I get what the artists and musicians in these collectives strive to build. In my case we actually have built a couple of venues for our music and more - but being an older crowd for the most part we not only have some money to invest we also found wealthy sponsors and managed to accrue enough money to create safe buildings. Of course, this is all in small towns in Washington. While I'd love to see fundraisers for building safe warehouses or even renovating them the cost of doing so in a city like Oakland is probably astronomical.
It seems like if a city can buy property to make a park then it could buy property for artists. It's not like these warehouses are in the middle of a multi-million dollar housing development. It would be similar to Habitat for Humanity I guess, but on a larger scale.
Anyway, enough dreaming for now - I'm rambling again. :blushing:
What an article. I know many firefighters and marvel at their courage. Crawling tbrough that building looking for people to save knowing the whole time something could collapse on them.
Years ago a 9 year old boy perished in a fire by my house. He was hiding from the fire in a closet.
The firefighters at that fire talked about the grief even 20 years later.
Amazing brave selfless people
I do not wish to hang on the side of the landlord, since I know virtually nothing, but as the wife of someone who owns a condo in the Bay Area, I can tell you that it took us over two years to evict a tenant, at the cost of over $10k in travel & attorneys' fees & annoying communications. All to get rid of someone who was running an active porn site in a high-end condo despite signing a rental agreement that prohibited any business activities in the condo. A nightmare. The agency we used for the rental agreements alledgedly did a thorough background & credit check & still missed the red flags that appeared when I did a small amount of Internet research. My husband relied on them, much to his financial & emotional dismay.
This quote brought it home for me. They tried so hard and were fated to fail because it was a deathtrap.
"Heart wrenching"! 'The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse conflagration will haunt the victim's families, friends, and loved ones, as well as the firefighters and other first responders for decades to come'..
<snipped from article linked & BBM>
Just before dawn, after an exhausting night, Robertson and his fire crew finally returned to Station 4. After filling out paperwork, he gathered his firefighters. They still didn’t know how many had perished inside. But they knew they hadn’t saved a single soul.
“Take care of your mental health. Don’t do something self-destructive. I know this is hard to deal with,” Robertson told them.
His shift over, Robertson — father of a 21-year-old daughter and a school-age son — showered and drove home. His wife greeted him when he walked in the door about 6 a.m. He opened his mouth, but no words came out. They embraced, and Robertson started sobbing. She had never seen him break down like that before...
It took me three attempts to read it...I was crying too hard to see. None of those involved will ever be the same. MOO
There is a little girl around the 2:00 mark on the left side.
Should have included the video. I see a little girl.at around the 200 mark on the left.
What kind of hold does Ion have on them? Seems cultish like some have mentioned. Moo.
Just to bounce off of your post, I think it's also important to remember it doesn't take one who is 'weak-willed', drug-addled, or dim-witted to fall prey to a psychopath/abusive personality/malignant narcissist. These types of personalities are so predatory and spend their entire lives perfecting their manipulations. Any type of presumed vulnerability is exposed and exploited to their gain. They learn your biggest hopes, your deepest fears, your beliefs and values - and weaponize every single one of them.
JMO and FWIW
What a beautiful voice. I'm crying at such a tragic loss.
I used the term "weak-willed" upthread - I should have been clearer in that "vulnerable," like you say, is probably more accurate. I encountered a few Dericks when I was very young, 13 to 15 and yes, I saw intelligent, loving friends go off the rails following these dudes. I can see how Derick and his wife can suck people in like ramen noodles when they are living on the fringe of society and undervalued as people. It's just heartbreaking.
Investigative report from the New York Times: