CA CA - Meadowbrook, 2 BlkFems 649UFCA & 650UFCA, in burning building, Jul'69

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Bobby88, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    Unidentified Black Female
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/649ufca.html

    • The victim was discovered on July 15, 1969 in Riverside County, California
    • Estimated Date of Death: July 15, 1969

    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 17-21 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'3; 110 lbs.
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown due to fire damage. Unable to locate any scars, tattoos.
    • Dentals: Available.
    • Clothing: Clothing, if worn, was destroyed in the fire.

    Case History
    This victim and another unidentified woman was located in a burning structure on Highway 74 in Meadowbrook area between Lake Elsinore and Perris, CA.
    About 23.20, Police responded to a structure fire in the 27000 block of Highway 74 in the unincorporated area of Riverside County, CA., known as Meadowbrook.
    After the fire was extinguished, two female bodies were located in the remains. Test indicated that one of the victims had a substantial amount of drugs in her system at the time of her death.
    Preliminary investigation in 1969 indicates that it was believed that both women were possibly transported from the Los Angeles area. Two suspects have been identified in this crime.


    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Riverside County Coroner
    951-443-2300

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
    Agency Case Number:
    25003

    Source Information:
    Riverside County Coroner





    Unidentified Black Female
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/650ufca.html

    • The victim was discovered on July 15, 1969 in Riverside County, California
    • Estimated Date of Death: About 12 hours prior to the fire.

    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 25-30 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2; 125 lbs.
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown due to fire damage. Unable to locate any scars, tattoos.
    • Clothing: Clothing, if worn, was destroyed in the fire.

    Case History
    This victim and another unidentified woman was located in a burning structure on Highway 74 in Meadowbrook area between Lake Elsinore and Perris, CA.
    About 23.20, Police responded to a structure fire in the 27000 block of Highway 74 in the unincorporated area of Riverside County, CA., known as Meadowbrook.
    After the fire was extinguished, two female bodies were located in the remains. Test indicated that one of the victims had a substantial amount of drugs in her system at the time of her death.
    Preliminary investigation in 1969 indicates that it was believed that both women were possibly transported from the Los Angeles area. Two suspects have been identified in this crime.


    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Riverside County Coroner
    951-443-2300

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
    Agency Case Number:
    25003

    Source Information:
    Riverside County Coroner


    Can't help but wonder if this was some type of drug party gone horribly wrong or if these two women were lured to the area and deliberately killed by arson. Could they have been friends, sisters, cousins, etc.? I wonder what evidence was found that lead the investigators to believe that the were from L.A..
     
  2. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    Bit puzzling why we aren't being told exactly what the "burning structure" was.

    The coroner's reports seem to indicate that the younger victim died in the fire, and the older victim died 12 hours before the fire.
    http://www.riversidesheriff.org/coroner/unidentified/1969-5003.asp

    That would tend to indicate certain possibilities to me:

    The dead older victim was the primary target of a homicidal intent, the younger victim was an inconvenient witness.
    OR
    Abducting the younger victim alive was the primary goal of the perpetrator, the older victim got in the way.
     
  3. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    I have tried to find old newspaper articles on the case, but have come up empty. I wonder which of the victims had drugs in her system.

    Perhaps the older victim was in the process of being murdered and the younger victim just happened to stumble upon the incident. In other words, they may not have known one another prior to their untimely deaths.
     
  4. Kodiak

    Kodiak Member

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    This almost sounds like it could be a Zodiac related crime. In 1963, two high school seniors, who were dating and soon to be married, were shot to death on the eve of their graduation in broad daylight on a secluded, Santa Barbara County beach. The killer shot them multiple times, and dragged their bodies to a rundown shack, and tried to set the bodies and shack on fire, but to no avail.

    Also, Zodiac was also suspected of the murder of Cheri Jo Bates in 1966 in Riverside, an area he knew very well.

    http://www.zodiackiller.com/DomingosEdwards.html
     
  5. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    Had Zodiac committed arson? I'm assuming this was an arson case to cover up a murder since the older victim was already long dead.
     
  6. Kodiak

    Kodiak Member

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    Yes, on March 22, 1970, it was believed that Zodiac committed arson on the car of potential victim, Kathleen Johns and her baby girl after he drove them around for two hours saying he was going to kill them. Luckily they both escaped. When the police found Johns' car, he had moved it to another location and set it on fire.

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/highway_5.html
     
  7. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I would definitely like to know more about the two suspects and why they are suspects. Are they from Los Angeles and this is why LE thinks that the two ladies are from the LA area? Would like to know more about the burning "structure." Is it an abandon house, shed, barn, or ???
     
  8. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    The reconstruction of Jane Doe #1 looks much older than 17-21. Is their DNA on file? If so are they related?
     
  9. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    Bump.
     
  10. Fuuro

    Fuuro New Member

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    The reconstructions look a bit... off. First of all, like Ambercat said, the younger victim looks a LOT older than her estimated age is (she looks > 40, but that could just be me) and the older victim looks a bit older than she is supposed to be also. Second of all, the reconstructions look more Caucasian than African-American. If you'd show me these recons and I didn't know anything about the case, I would think that they were two older Caucasian women.
     
  11. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    It looks like a lot of California cases on NamUs have been modified recently. They now list a specific address for the "structure" that these two ladies were found in -- 27820 Hwy 74 (Ortega Highway), Perris, California. Also, I never noticed this before, but [per NamUs] the younger victim had a "recognizable face," while the older victim physical condition is listed as "Not recognizable - Traumatic injuries."

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7224

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7223
     
  12. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    This is all I get when I put in "27820 Highway 74, Perris, CA".

    https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF...+ca&ei=MfXaUoHQLuezsQTa4YC4BA&ved=0CCoQxB0wAA

    That is odd about the younger victim having a "recognizable face". I wonder if they ever took a postmortem photo of her or if this is one of those cold cases where the UID had a recognizable face but, for reasons unknown, a photo was never taken.

    I'd like to know what kind of "structure" these women were found in and who found them. For some reason, I'm picturing something along the lines of an old condemned house or a drug house with them being discovered by a vagrant.
     
  13. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I wasted a lot of time looking through old newspapers trying to find an article about the two murders and fire when they happened, but so far I haven't been able to locate anything.

    If I am looking at the information about the property on zillow correctly, that there was once a single family home on the 1.81 acre parcel. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/27820-Highway-74-Perris-CA-92570/111428720_zpid/

    I would hope that there would be photos of the decedent in the autopsy report but I guess a lot has been lost to time. I know what you mean about it being really frustrating when it says that an UID had a recognizable face, yet there isn't a photo or even a sketch. For example, recently I noticed that https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7648 has a recognizable face. Before this, I thought all of the UIDs from Orange County, CA who were recognizable had a sketch to accompany them.
     
  14. Bobby88

    Bobby88 Whatever happened to Johnnie Herrera?

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    I have a feeling that whoever these two women were, they were never reported missing. Perhaps they were prostitutes or transients who had no real family and therefore no one to really notice their sudden absence.

    My personal opinion is that the women knew each other and that finding the identity of one woman will yield the other's identity.
     

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