CA - Oakland Teacher watches 2nd Graders perform sex acts in classroom

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by Salem, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Salem

    Salem Former Member

    Messages:
    29,160
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
  2. Loading...


  3. sherbetjello

    sherbetjello Where is Kyron?

    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wait, what?
     
  4. Valleyboy

    Valleyboy Grumpy Old Man..

    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    How bloody sick can you get..

    Wonder if it was a male or female teacher
     
  5. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

    Messages:
    8,769
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This sounds so far fetched like something out of those satanic daycare cases of the 1980s. 2nd graders performing oral sex in front of the class? Come on. I can definitely believe "Doctor" but I still think most kids would be a little shy about doing that in front of the entire class but oral sex? I think the second the student took their clothes off, the teacher would be like, "What are you doing?!" Now, if this story is 100% true and these 7-year-olds are performing oral sex acts, then they can probably expect a life of drug addiction, prostitution, and alcohol abuse ahead for them. :/ And I hope they investigate the families of these kids, because I bet there's a lot of sexual abuse going on. These kids are not normal so I really hope people don't start freaking out and think that every 7-year-old is having oral sex at that age. If you're 7 years old and you know how to perform oral sex, then it's because some sicko has performed it on you before or you've watched two people perform it.
     
  6. rpipergirl

    rpipergirl proud owner Kidmissing

    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Has anyone concidered that maybe the teacher is a perv who encouraged this behavior in these kids because I don't believe it was spontanious. IMHO
     
  7. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

    Messages:
    10,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This article states that the teacher was present but was unaware of what was going on:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/oral-sex-in-oakland-class_n_812263.html

    The fact that the teacher was placed on leave and not arrested tells me something. The school seems to be standing behind his story so far and is reacting appropriately by notifying parents and calling in counselors. This type of thing is like letting the cat out of a bag. It's very hard to undo the damage and there will be fall-out, to be sure.

    I know that 2nd grade class sizes have exploded in California and teacher's helpers have been cut to the nub. I'm going to say that there is a possibility that this occurred--both the sex acts and nudity and the teacher being unaware. It's not likely but it is possible.

    With so many little ones watching TV and films they shouldn't and watching older sibs, it does occur. Many foster parents can attest to having very young children show up exhibiting behaviors once unheard (or not spoken of) of in children. Children do mimic what they see. Just check out youtube for the tiniest toddlers shaking their booties.

    Until more info comes out, I'm going to bet that one child was the instigator. That child most likely has experienced abuse. The other child would probably have been a more vulnerable child.

    I have to remember that my children were brutally raped while in the school restroom and when my husband and I were in the house and they were 40 feet out the back door in their fort. Incidents like this are the reason that most schools have done away with lofts, tents, and nooks.

    Be aware that the photo which accompanies this article is a stock photo and not a photo of the actual classroom.


    ETA:

    An even more detailed report here:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17161104?nclick_check=1

    "....Dr. Stuart Lustig, a child and adolescent psychiatrist at UC San Francisco, said sexual play among children -- though often worrisome to adults -- is not uncommon, even at a very young age. "They do experiment with each other's bodies," he said. "It's part of normal development." If the activities are coercive or repetitive, however, it raises concerns that a child has been abused or exposed to sexual activity or material, Lustig said. He also said oral sex is not as common, "and probably more concerning."

    more at link


    Note by me: I would agree 100% with Dr. Lustig, after raising 14 children. Normal and healthy sexual exploration typically occurs between the ages of 2-7, IME, but it's up to the caregivers to teach that it is not OK to touch other's private spots. Coercion changes everything, however. And this article states that there are 20 children in that class--not an inordinate number. Hmmmm.
     
  8. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

    Messages:
    8,769
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    36
    No, IMO, it's much more likely that someone in the child's life, such as a family member, is sexually abusing the child.

    This wasn't playing Doctor. This wasn't just touching each other. This was oral sex. There's a huge difference. There's nothing "normal and healthy" about having oral sex in 2nd grade.
     
  9. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked Karma is a beautiful thing ~

    Messages:
    5,966
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No way can I believe that 2nd graders took their clothes off and performed oral sex in the classroom and the teacher DID NOT KNOW??? Wow!!!!!
     
  10. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

    Messages:
    10,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I didn't say that the children were playing doctor. I'm in no way minimizing this issue. I'm fully aware that oral sex was reported and even the doctor I quoted above found that disturbing.

    FWIW, we caught our children in numerous situations that went far beyond normal, after their rapes--never before. That's why I said that I believe there's an instigator. The vigilance and eyes on supervision for the next 12 years really took their toll. That's why I'm pleased that these children can benefit from immediate processing and therapy. Only a couple of my children were deemed able to benefit from therapy due to their special needs.

    A trauma assessment will most likely be done on each child in the class and appropriate services provided. I'm just hopeful that it's not a once only therapy session. Issues like this can come back again and again at each developmental level. A while back it was thought that children would forget and that it was best not to remind them. Hah!! They do not forget. EVER. Visuals outside our scope of experience are imprinted for life.
     
  11. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If oral sex is occurring in the classroom of seven year olds and the teacher is unaware, the entire system of teaching at this school needs to be reexamined! We couldn't even pass a note without getting caught.
     
  12. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    48
    2nd graders who somehow know about oral sex?

    and a teacher who doesn't notice them doing it in the classroom?

    that's quite the coincidence
     
  13. Melanie

    Melanie Inactive

    Messages:
    12,328
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When my son was in 2nd grade, he didn't know anything about sex! How can a child perform oral sex unless they were instructed to do so?

    OMG!!!

    Mel
     
  14. Melanie

    Melanie Inactive

    Messages:
    12,328
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    AMEN to that!
     
  15. Pandora

    Pandora New Member

    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I had to look up the average student/teacher ratio for that school. It is 20:1.
    Keep in mind this is just an average--I've taught in schools where one teacher had only 7 students in a class, while I had 35. :(
    The source for the student/teacher ration: http://www.city-data.com/school/markham-elementary-ca.html

    It's hard to imagine a situation where this could happen unless perhaps it was a self-contained classroom (w/ bathroom) and there was no aid. In that case, the teacher COULD have been w/ a student in the bathroom while this got started. I totally agree w/ others that at least one of these children had to have been abused in the past. . . .

    On another note, this type of thing could explode into everyday occurances as class sizes sky rocket. I'm concerned for the teachers of Detroit who are looking at class sizes of 65 next year. I cannot for the life of me imagine how I would teach a core class with that many students.
     
  16. kileyizzle

    kileyizzle ♥ we have but two lives. The life we learn with, &

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IMHO.. it could happen..

    I worked as OSCH co-ordinator... i had 45 kids under my care... ages 5 - 12

    Ratio was meant to be 1:15... having said that i was often alone with the entire group. Now there were victims of abuse present & under my care - there are strategys put in place... IE - No dress up's, No matieral for building cubbys that wasn't sheer, stand near the bathroom stalls, keep an eye out for misleading or inappriproate behaviour... etc etc

    My point being is. And i dare i say it. As a Survivor myself i take THIS very seriously. That even though all measures and precautions are taken... it can & will occur.

    Now - I am was an OSCH worker ( After school care ) - I can not fathom how a teacher has pull over that amount of kids. There is an incrediable amount of variables to consider also. He may have had special needs children, high maintence kids that need that one on one.. without an aid... it's difficult. it really is.

    Also would liek to add my nephew is 5 - a child in his class was talking about sex. Times are a changing. They know alot more than they should. It is not so ludachrist to belive that a 7 year old would know about oral sex. It's a sad but true fact todaii...

    Abused child perhaps. More than likely.

    Point is. Without knowing the variables - The info that the teacher was put on leave and not charged speaks volumes alone.

    People who work with children... have children in the best of their hearts, not only that but a duty of care - a reputation to uphold in a community that their school is a safe place for their children. I don't think they would stand behind the teacher if it were to be true.
     
  17. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

    Messages:
    12,690
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There's part of me that wants to think that the teacher had something to do with it, just because it does seem odd that they didn't notice.

    And then, there's the part of me that knows better. My oldest son, 4 years old, attends a specialized school with specialized classes. He is autistic, and here, he is offered the different therapies and such that he needs to overcome or at least deal with his developmental delays. This is a good thing.

    The bad thing? Many of the other children at the school have developmental delays for different reasons, such as severe neglect, abuse, undiagnosed conditions that had a huge effect before they were caught.

    Parental involvement is a huge part of the curriculum at the school, at any given moment, there are at least five parents, one aide and one teacher in a class of 25-30 students. And there are still incidents, simply because so many of these kids have been subject to abuse and/or neglect. Luckily, my son has never been an instigator, to the best of our knowledge, but he has pulled his pants down in gym, because another child told him to. In plain sight, he did not realize he was doing anything wrong. Whether the other child did or not, no one really knows. The other child has a rough background, is a foster child, and is mostly non-verbal by choice. So there is little information coming from that angle.

    What I'm getting at is that there was likely an instigator, and I would be inclined to believe that there have been other incidents between the kids in that class that went unnoticed, and since they were unnoticed and uncorrected, they felt little shame about it and moved their activities to a more public forum.
    There is likely an abused child that started the whole thing. I hate to say it, as it places even more stigma on them. But, it's likely the truth.

    As for the teacher, we have no idea how long this incident lasted. Was it five minutes of oral sex, or was it fifteen seconds? Was it full blown oral the way that adults think of it, or was it more geared towards childish exploration?
     
  18. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

    Messages:
    10,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Excellent post, NMK. Unless someone has spent a day in a 2nd grade classroom in the last few years, it's hard to imagine. Sunnie is correct in that we couldn't pass a note. But today's classrooms follow a very different format--far more unstructured. Children are not always in their seat. In some classrooms, they rarely are.

    With the push for full inclusion of children with special needs and the budget cuts, very needy children are often placed in regular classrooms without an aid. I can easily see how a cluster of children could gather around to hide something like this. We need to remember that 7 year olds have a rebellious streak--they push the limits, they love dares, and to shock. It's a stage that comes on suddenly and fades...for most. They are finding their way in the social group and this is when the "class clowns" present themselves. My guess is that the sex act was more of the "15 second" variety than what we adults imagine. And the nudity was most likely not parading around the classroom with no clothes at all. It could be lowered pants or a dress pulled up. Second graders absorb and mimic what they see in the home, in films and TV and on the internet.

    This is a wait and see. JMO Thank goodness that a child told. It was upsetting and startling enough to elicit a response. I would think that if the child saw the teacher directing the actions, that would have been disclosed. Once again, though, we need to be mindful that many children who likely saw, did not tell. That always floors me.
     
  19. hedhdf

    hedhdf New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is awful :furious:
     
  20. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

    Messages:
    10,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmmm. It seems that the children told the truth.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_17414537?source=rss&nclick_check=1

    Oakland police: Sexual conduct did occur in second-grade classroom

    "Police say they think children at Markham Elementary School were telling the truth when they reported that two students engaged in sexual conduct in their second-grade classroom last month. "The kids interviewed actually gave similar accounts...."

    and

    "....investigators from the police department's Special Victim's Unit do not think an adult orchestrated or was otherwise involved in the explicit activity. The investigation has been closed, she said, and no criminal charges will be filed. On Jan. 20, school district officials said they had just received a report that two second-graders had engaged in oral sex in class sometime during the previous week and that a group of children had been "clowning around" in various stages of undress -- all while the teacher was present...."

    and

    "....The district is trying to determine who, if anyone, was with the children when the sex acts were happening and how the lapse in supervision occurred. "There are more nuances than people know," [Oakland Schools Spokesman, Troy] Flint said, though he wouldn't elaborate on what those nuances were."

    more at link


    JMO, but I think this teacher was either not paying attention, had slipped out of the room or was inexperienced and/or burned out. Children can be remarkably fast and circumspect with misbehaviors. Being that no charges were brought tells me that sexual exploration simply got out of hand due to a lapse in supervision. Many parents really have no clue as to what little ones will do when unsupervised. And children these days are seeing far more sexualized images than is appropriate, IMO.

    If I was that teacher, I'm not so sure I'd want to go back to the classroom. Teaching is not for the faint of heart, these days. One MUST have eyes in the back of their head.
     
  21. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

    Messages:
    8,769
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I think it's more likely that the two children who were engaging in sexual conduct were being molested at home (or one of them was and persuaded the other one to go along with it) than them seeing something on TV. You can't turn on the TV and watch a girl give a guy a BJ, unless you have some porn channel. Yes, TV implies sexual stuff but for 7-year-olds to know how to engage in sexual conduct, well they watched someone. I don't believe that any 2nd grader would learn how to give a BJ (not saying that's what the sexual conduct was, but I wouldn't be surprised) just by watching TV. Would HBO or Showtime show something like that or would they just implied it happened?

    ETA: Another reason I believe these children are being molested is not just because they knew about sexual conduct, but that they actually engaged in it in a pretty public place.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice