CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Wagtales10, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. jjenny

    jjenny On Time Out

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    Would that sort of defense work for a regular citizen? For instance, could a regular citizen shopping at Costco become terrified at the sight of a cop because cop recently shot three people at Costco?
     
  2. Wagtales10

    Wagtales10 2024

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    It wont. The man who shot the off duty cop at jack in the box had no idea he was a cop. That wasnt a motivating factor. It cant factor into this off duty cop
     
  3. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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  4. Jessthinkin

    Jessthinkin Well-Known Member

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  5. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    I do like the contingency at the bottom of the policy, when the video release may be delayed to protect the constitutional rights of the accused. Hmm, isn't that interesting...

    Don't hold your breath, waiting for the video.
     
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  6. jjenny

    jjenny On Time Out

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    Presumably an accused is someone who is being charged. Are we going to see any charges in this case?
     
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  7. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    In all probability, yes.

    The officer tried to use lethal force against not one, but three people. Though it is theoretically possible that the use of force was justified, the totality of available information suggests that even proving that lethal force against the deceased was justified is going to be an uphill battle.

    For example, to justify lethal force against the two other victims, the officer would probably need to show that they were either directly participating in an attack- or say, ordering an ongoing attack in which could have killed the officer or severely injured him. Given what we know, that is extremely unlikely, but still possible.

    Even with the deceased, the officer had regained his feet and there is no current evidence indicating that the deceased was continuing the attack, was say, fixated on the child, or that the officer was incapable of defending himself with his hands, retreating, warning him off with the weapon etc. . Though it is possible that evidence may come to light that establishes these things, it does not seem very likely.

    Then factor in the conspiracy angle:

    - Shooting was extremely public, thus harder to spin.
    - The two surviving victims are probably going to be attractive to the public (no criminal records, were not wearing gang colors, were not intoxicated or high, were not engaged in any kind of criminal activity). Thus less room to spin the encounter.
    - The police officer is going to be investigated by officers who are not from his department. Less chance of a friendly investigation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  8. jjenny

    jjenny On Time Out

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    Well I sure hope so. I agree, while he might have a chance of justifiable self-defense against a son (and even that is murky if the son wasn't attacking at the time he was shot), I don't see how that would work in arguing self-defense against the elderly parents. Nobody suggested parents did anything to attack the officer.
     
  9. PaperDoll

    PaperDoll When I'm Silent, I make the most sense

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    I understand that the police officer may have felt threatened, at first, however there was enough time, IMO, to when he got up from the fall, announce who he was, draw his weapon, hear the father defend his son to realize that maybe it's not a life threatening situation. Why he fired 6 or more shots is beyond me. Now a days there is so much shootings/violence going on in public places that he may simply have panicked. He maybe a trained officer but he was off duty with his family shopping, then to be knocked to the ground not really knowing why. I'm not defending him because I think 6 shots was excessive, that killed one man and seriously wounded 2 others who were also shopping and wasn't expecting anything like this to happen to them.
     
  10. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    I have refrained from commenting on this case so far until we can see that video. Too much speculation. I do not think that the LAPD will be able to withhold the video past the 45 day policy deadline. In fact they very well may be forced to turn it over sooner. I don't think any of the exceptions apply in this case.
     
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  11. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    It seems like we have become so desensitized to violence that people are not totally freaked out about being shot while shopping at Costco.

    School shootings happen and there are a few comments on here.

    Bizzaro world
     
  12. Jax49

    Jax49 Florida Native

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    Apologies if already posted.

    Clashing views emerge in Corona Costco shooting, with family’s attorney saying gunfire was ‘unjustified’ – Press Enterprise

    Police chief says surveillance video being reviewed, calls most social media accounts of incident ‘erroneous.’

    bbm
     
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  13. BayouBelle_LA

    BayouBelle_LA Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a reasonable expectation to be be able to shop while holding your baby and not be assaulted. I would do everything in my power to protect my child.
     
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  14. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. This thread may as well be closed until the video is released, because everyone will be posting their POV from the various spin articles from MSM. No objective information is available for review.

    I wonder about the potential liability for Costco, this situation may very well be the end of the free samples from Costco. Pretty much everyone else waits patiently, but this situation, an accidental push, or maybe deliberate, by Mr. French, and a reaction by Mr. Sanchez, who happened to respond by shooting his gun, wounding two people and killing Mr. French.

    Is there possible liability to Costco for setting up a situation where a misunderstanding or misinterpretation could occur? People crowded around a table, jockeying for their sample of Chicken Teriyaki...
     
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  15. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    I agree this thread very well could get shut down. Its not productive to argue when so little actual facts and objective information is available.
    I don't see liability for Costco. The same lines could occur at the check out or other places.
     
  16. SoCalDavidS

    SoCalDavidS Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to turn public opinion against the Shooter, have Costco take away the free samples due to this incident.

    Obviously that's not going to happen, because unfortunately in today's Gun Freak America, incidents like this can't be prevented, and thankfully are not common.
     
  17. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I don't think it's a defense at all. I think it's an excuse.

    It could be a mitigator. And yes it could be a mitigator for a private citizen if the facts were slightly different. For example, if it was a woman who was being stalked and someone knocked her to the ground from behind and she came up shooting.

    Was it reasonable under the circumstances to shoot wildly 6-7 times without knowing what the threat was or whether it was her stalker, etc? Probably not. But it's an excuse as to why she might have behaved that way and isn't just some monster with a gun itching to use it.
     
  18. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    I used to work in a very reactive, contentious environment (with attorneys, imagine that). Anyway, I noticed that in my personal life, I reacted to everything in an adversarial manner, because that was the personality I was developing from my professional career. I interpreted everything as an "attack", even if it was just a question.

    I can see how a police officer may respond to as interpreting something as a threat, but that doesn't justify or excuse the over reaction.

    I switched jobs, and am a much nicer person now. :p
     
  19. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    True but the government also has a right to charge you with a crime if what you do to protect yourself isn't lawful. In this case that means not reasonable under the circumstances.

    For example, if you saw someone pointing a gun from across the room, at your child, and that person was standing in a group of unrelated people, including children, is it lawful for you to throw a maltov cocktail in the crowd to stop the shooter?

    I mean you say you would do anything in your power. Well that would be something in your power if you had that weaponry available.

    Just because someone carries a gun doesn't mean they're allowed to use it whenever they want and in whatever circumstance they deem necessary. We have laws.

    I frankly feel more threatened by some yahoo with a gun shooting wildly in a supermarket because someone pushed them than I am by some huge, mentally ill guy pushing me down.

    From what I've seen, most private gun owners lack the training necessary to safely carry a loaded weapon.

    I mean this is an actual cop. Trained. And he unloaded 6-7 shots hitting three, separate people. Presumably because of one violent push.

    So if that's what a trained LE officer can do, I trust some private citizen even less.

    I think a person has to be training regularly in intense situations in order to be totally safe and recognize a true threat. But of course even then we are dealing with the variable of human emotion and experience. Which is what makes people carrying loaded firearms in public scary for me.

    Whatever experiences they may have, whatever emotional state they're in, whatever mental issues they may have, can affect their ability to perceive and address danger.

    And then there's also the factor that too many people who carry become complacent and their kids somehow access and use their loaded weaponry.

    I think it comes down to which risk is more relevant to a person - the risk of someone doing something life threatening to you or your family or someone near you, that is done in such a manner that you can actually neutralize the threat by having the time to grab, aim, cock and shoot your weapon, versus the threat of being shot by someone lawfully carrying a gun who can't aim straight, is too paranoid to assess the actual danger, is overeacting due to rage, or has a mental health issue that is either undiagnosed or became much more significant than previously thought.

    Everyone has different feelings about which risk is greater.
     
  20. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    The job title isn't what provides the excuse. Being a cop who gets knocked down from behind, in line to get food with your family, in the same county where a cop was shot in the head recently, also while in line to get food, IMO, it is an excuse. A moral excuse.

    Context matters.

    Again, it's not a legal defense but could mitigate.

    And I wouldn't have a problem with that.

    What I do have a problem with is different treatment from the outset. Covering up what happened. Not releasing the tape.

    And with my belief that even when the evidence is incontrovertible, LE almost always gets away with unlawful shootings/killings of unarmed people.
     
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