CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

[RANCH]

Addressing cops' confusion over 'the public duty doctrine'
Addressing cops' confusion over 'the public duty doctrine'
Proper training on the principles of the public duty doctrine and how it applies to police officers is essential to avoid liability on the part of the department and officers
Jan 5, 2012
The so-called public duty doctrine provides that “absent a special relationship between the governmental entity and the injured individual, the governmental entity will not be liable for injury to an individual... the governmental entity owes a duty to the public in general. The doctrine has been commonly described by the oxymoron, ‘duty to all, duty to none’.”1
[...]
In Our Nature to Help
While neither the California Constitution’s oath of office, nor the International Association of Chiefs of Police model oath of honor8, suggest that officers have duties other than the support and defense of the Constitution, and the maintenance of character, integrity, and public trust, no officer wants to see innocent individuals victimized or suffer harm of any sort.

One duty-dilemma issue, for example, may be the concern of contracting a fatal disease from performing CPR on a subject. Indeed, this is a real concern as just this past March, a deputy in Florida died five years after having contracted a virus while conducting CPR on an infant.9 Officers must discern the pros and cons of taking action in such a case to balance this unlikely tragic outcome against the more likely heartbreaking consequence of failing to act in a timely manner.

An officer’s misconception of his duty owed to the individual, however, may cause that officer to believe he has no choice but to provide assistance in the matter. While the officer is under no legal obligation to render aid to any one individual, once that officer decides to render aid to a victim, a special relationship may be established that produces a duty to an individual.
[...]

Thanks for the post. But this case is about an off duty police officer who shot and killed someone. It's not about the off duty officer rendering aid to a person in need. JMO

 

[SeesSeas]

Thanks for the post. But this case is about an off duty police officer who shot and killed someone. It's not about the off duty officer rendering aid to a person in need. JMO

I realize the cases are different. The point in sharing the article is to grasp some legal sense as to whether the Off Duty police officer in Costco was viewing himself as having the Public Duty Doctrine (ie, to protect the public in addition to protecting himself). [EVEN if it seems (to many of us) that his actions were possibly OVERKILL].
Video please.

 

[RANCH]

I realize the cases are different. The point in sharing the article is to grasp some legal sense as to whether the Off Duty police officer in Costco was viewing himself as having the Public Duty Doctrine (ie, to protect the public in addition to protecting himself). [EVEN if it seems (to many of us) as OVERKILL]

This is just my opinion but I doubt this officer was trying to protect the public. The only one who was attacked was him and his child who he was carrying.

 

[SeesSeas]

This is just my opinion but I doubt this officer was trying to protect the public. The only one who was attacked was him and his child who he was carrying.

But we don't know if there was action or movement deemed to be a further threat to the Citizen Off Duty Officer & his child and/or others nearby.
Waiting for video and investigation details.

 

[SeesSeas]

Another interesting article:
Off-Duty Confrontations: Legal Issues
[...]
This same training, experience, knowledge and dedication flow into off-duty incidents. While off-duty, officers may encounter situations which cry for some type of law enforcement response. Some have said that there is substantively no difference between on-duty and off-duty incidents, that law enforcement officers are officers 24-7 and that they may take action as off-duty officers as though they are on-duty.

But is this true? Are there legal issues which may impact that concept? Are there personal, departmental and/or municipal exposures which should be identified and considered? Off-duty incidents not only have the potential for similar legal issues as on-duty situations, they also have additional pitfalls not necessarily involved in on-duty encounters.
[...]

 

[apricotpeach]

Thank God they are going to make it! Why did the parents get shot? How many shots were fired? Sorry I need to catch up!

From what I remember, there haven't been any official details from Corona PD on why the parents were shot or how many shots were fired. One possibility is that the parents may have been shot while either shielding their son or trying to explain to the shooter about the son's disabilities. As for the number of shots, I think some witnesses may have put the number at six or seven.

 

[RANCH]

But we don't know if there was action or movement deemed to be a further threat to the Citizen Off Duty Officer & his child and/or others nearby.
Waiting for video and investigation details.

I agree 100%. I'm on the fence on this case until we get that video and investigation details.

 

[Catmommy]

Deadly force was used against three UNARMED people killing one of them and severely injuring the other two. The use of deadly force HAS to be justified when used by law enforcement. I see absolutely NO justification here. Just a hesitation to reveal the complete truth - moo.

 

[mickey2942]

Deadly force was used against three UNARMED people killing one of them and severely injuring the other two. The use of deadly force HAS to be justified when used by law enforcement. I see absolutely NO justification here. Just a hesitation to reveal the complete truth - moo.

I find this to be very true. And in comparison to, for example, the death of "Freddie Gray" when he died while in police custody. Every detail of what occurred, what the officers did, was covered in minutiae, basically moment by moment. And this was right after the incident. During the investigation, there was constant media coverage, and daily updates on how the investigation was unfolding.

Geez, even what the officers ate for lunch, and the time stamp was reported.

This situation has been almost a media blackout, in comparison.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

But we don't know if there was action or movement deemed to be a further threat to the Citizen Off Duty Officer & his child and/or others nearby.
Waiting for video and investigation details.

One example of this might be if French was (or was reasonably perceived to be) trying to grab the gun.

We don't know that that happened, but we don't know that it didn't. It's the only situation I can think of, short of French having a weapon, that might justify the shooting. And even then maybe not. (because if you can access your gun to shoot it, wouldn't you be able to access it to keep it away from someone trying to grab it? I just don't know.)

 

[RANCH]

I find this to be very true. And in comparison to, for example, the death of "Freddie Gray" when he died while in police custody. Every detail of what occurred, what the officers did, was covered in minutiae, basically moment by moment. And this was right after the incident. During the investigation, there was constant media coverage, and daily updates on how the investigation was unfolding.

Geez, even what the officers ate for lunch, and the time stamp was reported.

This situation has been almost a media blackout, in comparison.

I have no need to immediately know all of the facts of this case. I'm fine with letting the investigation run it's course.

While I agree that it would be nice to know more about what actually happened I will be satisfied if a through investigation is done and in the end the truth is known to all. JMO

 

[Angleterre]

I agree, and I do wonder if the parents tried to defend their grown son and that is how they ended up getting shot.

I can see how the officer's attorney's statement could be very accurate. It is possible that he was hit from behind while holding his baby son, knocked to the ground, momentarily either loses consciousness or is just completely in shock, looks up and some big guy is coming toward him, is afraid for himself and his son, and fires his weapon. 7 shots is excessive imo, but in the moment, who knows what was going through his mind. I do know that when your child is threatened you are very much in flight or fight mode, especially if you have any sort of PTSD (not saying that is the case here, but a possibility). Maybe French's parents either stepped in front of him or moved toward the officer in defense of their son.

A totally different situation and no gun involved but just to put it in perspective- my brother was out one night with friends and as he got to the front of our house, he was ‘jumped’ by a car load of large men ( mistaken identity) .
My brother was alone with 4/5 men kicking him on the floor. Somehow through superhuman strength he managed to grab an iron gate that was on a nearby home ( UK and houses very close together) and rip it off the hinges . By now, my parents had heard a commotion and looked out of the window and went rushing outside to protect my brother. In the melee, my mum managed to get in the middle of them , all 5ft 4” of her and 100lbs and as my brother lifted the gate to hit the men away, he hit my mum because she got in front of him in a split second to stop my brother hitting the men with the iron gate and making the situation worse by seriously hurting them , albeit he was doing so to prevent them attacking him. It was a split second and my mum got hurt, my dad reacted instinctively and he too got in the way and got hurt . The men retreated ‘FAST’ and left . I mention this not to justify anything that has happened here or to excuse any nefarious actions taken by the Cop or otherwise but purely to point out how, in a split second, everything can change . I was about 12/13 and was watching it all take place through my bedroom window. I was terrified but more terrified that my brother could have killed one of them with a heavy iron gate, merely by defending himself. And there were no CCTV cameras in 1982 . Just to try and explain how much can happen in a split second x

 

[Angleterre]

I agree, and I do wonder if the parents tried to defend their grown son and that is how they ended up getting shot.

I can see how the officer's attorney's statement could be very accurate. It is possible that he was hit from behind while holding his baby son, knocked to the ground, momentarily either loses consciousness or is just completely in shock, looks up and some big guy is coming toward him, is afraid for himself and his son, and fires his weapon. 7 shots is excessive imo, but in the moment, who knows what was going through his mind. I do know that when your child is threatened you are very much in flight or fight mode, especially if you have any sort of PTSD (not saying that is the case here, but a possibility). Maybe French's parents either stepped in front of him or moved toward the officer in defense of their son.

Excellent post and I concur that this is a possibility and until we either know more or see the cameras cctv , none of us know what happened and we are all trying to answer the 6/7 shots being a total overreaction or a possible justification ( if there can be such a justification for that amount of shots). Let’s wait and see until we know more... moo

 

[Angleterre]

I agree, and I do wonder if the parents tried to defend their grown son and that is how they ended up getting shot.

I can see how the officer's attorney's statement could be very accurate. It is possible that he was hit from behind while holding his baby son, knocked to the ground, momentarily either loses consciousness or is just completely in shock, looks up and some big guy is coming toward him, is afraid for himself and his son, and fires his weapon. 7 shots is excessive imo, but in the moment, who knows what was going through his mind. I do know that when your child is threatened you are very much in flight or fight mode, especially if you have any sort of PTSD (not saying that is the case here, but a possibility). Maybe French's parents either stepped in front of him or moved toward the officer in defense of their son.

Excellent post and I concur that this is a possibility and until we either know more or see the cameras cctv , none of us know what happened and we are all trying to answer the 6/7 shots being a total overreaction or a possible justification ( if there can be such a justification for that amount of shots). Let’s wait and see until we know more... moo

 

[mickey2942]

Excellent post and I concur that this is a possibility and until we either know more or see the cameras cctv , none of us know what happened and we are all trying to answer the 6/7 shots being a total overreaction or a possible justification ( if there can be such a justification for that amount of shots). Let’s wait and see until we know more... moo

When will we "know" more? The investigation by Corona PD has been completed, and sent to the DA for determining whether or not to pursue charges.

I wonder what happens next? Will they convene a grand jury? Or just decide not to press charges?

What about LAPD? Sanchez is currently on "administrative leave". How long does that last? Will LAPD terminate Sanchez? Or send him back to work?

Lots of unanswered questions here...

 

[Angleterre]

When will we "know" more? The investigation by Corona PD has been completed, and sent to the DA for determining whether or not to pursue charges.

I wonder what happens next? Will they convene a grand jury? Or just decide not to press charges?

What about LAPD? Sanchez is currently on "administrative leave". How long does that last? Will LAPD terminate Sanchez? Or send him back to work?

Lots of unanswered questions here...

I agree
Too many unanswered questions
I’m just getting up
to speed and only halfway through the thread

 

[Angleterre]

Well, I wouldn't count that this witness saw everything, considering she believed the cop fell because he had a heart attack, so she apparently did not even see an initial shove/push, whatever it was.

You are surmising though and none of us know so it may be better that we wait for more information rather than attack witness accounts to justify your own scenario that the cop, no matter what, was in the wrong.
From the information we have, I find it hard to determine how it wasn’t a total overreaction by the Cop, but we don’t know for certain and in good faith, a witness has come forward and given their own ‘perspective ‘ which is just that - their own perspective. It’s difficult enough these days for people to be brave enough to be a witness to a crime, without their account, given in good faith, being vilified on here , Websleuths, a site which is professional and has strict rules of engagement and is fair until all information is verified as accurate. Please don’t attack the witness in this way . MOO

 

[SoCalDavidS]

This is just my opinion but I doubt this officer was trying to protect the public. The only one who was attacked was him and his child who he was carrying.

Supposedly carrying. Thanks to the investigators & police department keeping the facts from us, and refusing to release the video, the only account we have that says he was carrying his child, is.....wait for it........His Attorney! It could turn out to be true, and it could also turn out to be a wild distortion of the truth.

But in their effort to keep things from the public, the police are allowing people to form their own conclusions, a month after it happened. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[wary]

A month? That’s nothing. Minnesota investigated for eight months before they arrested MN for shooting JD—and they didn’t even have a video to study.

 

[mickey2942]

Supposedly carrying. Thanks to the investigators & police department keeping the facts from us, and refusing to release the video, the only account we have that says he was carrying his child, is.....wait for it........His Attorney! It could turn out to be true, and it could also turn out to be a wild distortion of the truth.

But in their effort to keep things from the public, the police are allowing people to form their own conclusions, a month after it happened. Nothing to see here, move along.

Yes. And the Frenches are still in the hospital. Probably too banged up and in grief to really care about anything. I wonder who their attorney is going after? Sanchez is unlikely to have much. LAPD? Civil lawsuit against LAPD? For lack of training?