CA CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by PommyMommy, Dec 21, 2020.

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  1. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Oh WOW !!!
    that amount jumped up quickly.
    Hoping that "someone" who knows something comes forward soon.
     


  2. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    And we all know how "rambunctious" 3-4 yr olds can be.
    Plus add in Covid factor--not allowed to play outside, said dad
    due to Covid
    Dear Lord--- cooping up 3 and 4 yr olds inside a house for how long???
    Yeah, I'm not buying it
     
  3. Luckyzmom

    Luckyzmom Well-Known Member

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    Just breaks your heart doesn't it, praying these little guys are found soon Thanks to you all for great info.
    Wish I was feeling more positive about this disappearance MOO
     
  4. Jo in Calif

    Jo in Calif Well-Known Member

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    I feel sorry for the CCPD, people don't realize what information they want. They will be getting, I had a vision, I had a dream. I read the cards, did you do this did you do that.
    The person manning the phone has their work cut out for them.
     
  5. AmandaReckonwith

    AmandaReckonwith Defective Detective

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    Reward = $50K.

    I hope it works!
     

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  6. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Bio mom and family have been very vocal in the media (sorry I don't have a link) that they feel the system failed them and I think the bio grandfather is suing. A lot of emotion when one feels they have been robbed of something.
     
  7. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Another search in Bakersfield is scheduled for Sunday.

     
  8. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    "When asked if biological parents can obtain custody post-adoption, Slagle said the cases are rare, but still possible. It’s carefully decided by the courts and the biological parent has to prove they’ve changed since their custody was denied."

    This^^^ is shocking to me. :eek: As an adoptive parent, in California, I would have been terrified to hear that statement....

    We were always told, 100%, that our adoptions were FINAL and there was no way for the biofamilies to regain parental rights after we received the final court ruling. They told us and our children, in court, that we are the 'Forever Family. '

    I am shocked to hear that a child could be taken away from their 'forever family' if the bio-parent eventually 'changed' their ways.


    I cannot imagine having one of our kids taken away from us, their siblings, and grandparents, because years later their bio-mom gets sober and finds a house to rent. This is a frightening ruling, and I think it is somewhat new.

    Just when did Social Services make the decision that a bio-parent has an open ended amount of time to get their lives in order, even if their child has been legally adopted and is fully engaged in a new 'forever family' dynamic? :(
     
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  9. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    The children were failed by much more than the system. JMHO
     
  10. dandyda

    dandyda Member

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    I keep going back to the chalk. Over embellishment is a sign of lying. The chalk is mentioned multiple times in the AP interview. I’m an art teacher and can confirm that if the boys were as AD described, chalk wouldn’t hold their attention for more than 5 minutes. (I was taught that attention is one minute for every year of age.. I can’t confirm that is true, but that always stuck in my head)

    Every detail seems rehearsed and meticulously thought out. Sidewalk chalk seems to be the only material I can come up with that would not show finger prints. Could this be why it became of their “story?” It’s mentioned too many times to be ignored. Any other toy would have fingerprints proving they were actually there on the day they were reported missing. Is there anyone that can provide detail on fingerprinting on a porous surface such as chalk? Powder (for getting the print) and chalk are similar in property which would make me believe prints wouldn’t stick.

    I know this information doesn’t help bring the boys home, but it could prove how much time and thought went into planning their story.
     
  11. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    There is no proof of anything, what is he suing for?
     
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  12. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

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    O/T but now I understand why I can only stick with something for about an hour! :p (kidding, kidding)

    And to get back on topic that does seem like a really useful heuristic. I don't know the answer about prints on chalk but I hope someone who knows will speak up. I'm more inclined to think that it's just a common outside activity for their kids and it came to their mind for that reason.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  13. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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  14. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Welcome to WS @dandyda
     
  15. dandyda

    dandyda Member

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    @Auntie Cipation looks like I don’t know how to “ reply” yet!

    Heuristic. Awesome word for this field! I had to look it up but thank you for teaching me something new today :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  16. Dawookie

    Dawookie Well-Known Member

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    That's been my thought for quite a while. Just too much information out there to think otherwise
     
  17. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that was one reason why the parents didn't want to reveal their names at first.

    Maybe the bio mom found out who they were from investigators or from the media? Or SM? I don't know, but it's a good question.
     
  18. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of biological parents suing if the adoption process was fraudulent in some way but I don't know if that's what they are referring to. I didn't know a grandparent could sue.

    Which article was this mentioned in?
     
  19. elliefant

    elliefant Numpty

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    I agree with you.

    However it doesn’t say that all is required is for the bio parent to change their ways.

    It does say it is extremely rare. If eg the adoptive parents die or are imprisoned for life or something, and none of the rest of the adoptive family - eg grandparents - will take the children; if the bio mom has turned her life around and is now a stable loving provider; perhaps in such circumstances the bio mom can apply and be considered carefully by the courts?

    I’m sure it would only be considered in those, or similar, rare & exceptional circumstances - and in the best interest of the child. Surely?

    And with all those changes in circumstances, behaviours, and wishes having to apply to both the bio and adoptive families it would be very rare I think.
     
  20. dillysmom11

    dillysmom11 Well-Known Member

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    Unless the state did something fraudulent during the adoption process (not unheard of), it’s not going to fly. Grandparents can sue for rights before the adoption is final, and probably had many opportunities to be involved. So I’m not sure where all of this is coming from, but an adoption is a done deal in most cases. MOO
     
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