CA CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

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tatertot

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It would take some effort and great risk to snatch 1 verbal mobile child in a short span of time not to mention how difficult it would be to abduct 2. Child abductions are not as common as some might think. Especially when 2 parents are close by.
From watching the interview again, dad seems to think they are in a house close by, meaning in the neighborhood. He mentions something about going to search peoples homes but can not because of privacy or something.

Keeping in mind the aforementioned idea that there's some element of truth in every story, what if the parents' account is largely true, only the boys actually went missing a day or more prior to the report?

If the other kids were away at their grandparents', the parents would have "only" two to care for, both of them very young with presumably early bedtimes. (As a parent of five sons with Former Spouse, I can attest it felt ridiculously easy when the older ones were at their grandparents' and we only had our then-youngest at home to get to bed.)

I feel crummy even mentioning this, and please keep in mind it's not an accusation, as there hasn't been any mention by LE of substance use, but what if there was some "excess" celebration and it was discovered far too late that the boys had left the property? Then the parents reported the disappearance almost immediately after discovering it, but they had to change the date and the narrative of their actions at the time, for risk of losing their other children.

Yes, that scenario would require the combination of stranger abduction and parental incapacitation/neglect, but maybe they were taken by someone who found them wandering alone and delusionally felt it was their duty to provide them with a "better" home. Just going by what LE has released to the public, I hope this scenario hasn't been ruled out unless they have undisclosed evidence to the contrary.
 

MissUnderstood

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I wonder if that was one reason why the parents didn't want to reveal their names at first.

Maybe the bio mom found out who they were from investigators or from the media? Or SM? I don't know, but it's a good question.

that was my first thought. When adoptive parents filed the missing kids report the police first went to bio mum to see if she was responsible. She then knows they are missing and it doesn’t take much to find out the address with news articles and video.
Moo
 

Peppery

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In general, if birth parents have one or two children removed from their custody and placed in foster care, wouldn’t ALL of her children be removed?? Could she possibly regain custody of some of the kids but not all?
 

NCHydrangea

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Good morning/afternoon/evening!

I’ve been lurking for a while and finally decided to jump in with both feet. Hopefully I won’t post something I shouldn’t.

Something has been bothering me every time we saw videos from the media but I could never put my finger on it until now. Where are the outside toys?

There is or was 6 children living in this house but the back yard looks barren. No bicycles, balls, toy trucks or anything suggesting that children live there. I have friends who kept their house and yard pristine.....until kids or Grandkids came along.

According to the AD, they sent O & O to the backyard with chalk (gotta keep them off the dirt). Were none of the kids allowed to play outside? I don’t know. Just seems like a household with 6 kids would have young’uns running all over the place and toys strewn all over the backyard.

MOO

ps: took me a while to figure out why y’all kept mooing at each other.
 

susiQ

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Good morning/afternoon/evening!

I’ve been lurking for a while and finally decided to jump in with both feet. Hopefully I won’t post something I shouldn’t.

Something has been bothering me every time we saw videos from the media but I could never put my finger on it until now. Where are the outside toys?

There is or was 6 children living in this house but the back yard looks barren. No bicycles, balls, toy trucks or anything suggesting that children live there. I have friends who kept their house and yard pristine.....until kids or Grandkids came along.

According to the AD, they sent O & O to the backyard with chalk (gotta keep them off the dirt). Were none of the kids allowed to play outside? I don’t know. Just seems like a household with 6 kids would have young’uns running all over the place and toys strewn all over the backyard.

MOO

ps: took me a while to figure out why y’all kept mooing at each other.
Yes, indeed! Isn’t that the weirdest thing, six children and NO toys in the backyard!? I’m still curious as to why LE dug those holes. What was it about those sections of the yard that looked “off.” We know they did not locate the boys.

I know we don’t know if they owned a dog, although someone did mention there was a little sign in the window “Beware of Dog.” What if this was a case of putting those two little “rambunctious” boys in the yard with the dog and something horrible happened. There would be blood. And maybe plenty of it. The cleanup would have certainly made those areas look different, darker because they got watered and raked perhaps? Maybe removed the top layer? Any toys that would have been there would have needed cleaning, wiped of blood and prints all at the same time. How would they explain outdoor toys with no prints?

This is of course all speculation. The boys may never have been there at all. MOO.

Welcome to WS @NCHydrangea. Glad you “jumped in!”
 

NCHydrangea

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What was it about those sections of the yard that looked “off.”

I agree! What stuck out to me was that it appears that there is a perfectly rectangular depression in the soil around where they dug. Was there a concrete pad there? The edges look too clean for there have been a pad that they had broken up. The potholes that they dug also look very symmetrical, but that’s probably SOP when performing exploratory digging. Also, why did they dig in that particular place? The ground looks very solid and hard and it would be obvious is someone had dug a hole recently.

I have so many questions.
 

Knox

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Unless the state did something fraudulent during the adoption process (not unheard of), it’s not going to fly. Grandparents can sue for rights before the adoption is final, and probably had many opportunities to be involved. So I’m not sure where all of this is coming from, but an adoption is a done deal in most cases. MOO
@dillysmom11 Can you speak to how privacy is addressed in adoptions where parental rights are revoked? Has a bio parent ever learned the name and address of the adoptive family and tried to see the kids or cause some sort of trouble after the adoption is finalized? Just curious about how that works in California?

In one of the video interviews, bio mom says she got to the home in Cal City 45 minutes after she was contacted. But doesn't give any further details, as someone else pointed out, she also said she didn't know them. So I assumed she knew how to get to the house from being interviewed by LE?
 

Inquisitive2018

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I just read the extended family's statement again, this was posted 2 weeks after the Orrin and Orson when missing. They would have surely spoken to the adoptive parents, and got more info from them and relayed that in their statements. In their follow up post they state

All of the “Parents” both biological and adoptive must be fully investigated and held to account for why we are where we are today. The children involved are innocent and did not choose to be in this tragic situation.

No reiteration of the story told by the adoptive parents. I don't see any mention of a possible stranger abduction in their statements yet LE has stated that they suspect foul play so to me they believe its adoptive family or Bio family. MOO. Even Leticia Stauch had her defenders for some time.


 

JC40

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missing-boys-Orrin-and-Olson-West.jpg


Reward for boys who reportedly vanished from backyard at the same time increases to $50K
 

MoeInVA

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I just read the extended family's statement again, this was posted 2 weeks after the Orrin and Orson when missing. They would have surely spoken to the adoptive parents, and got more info from them and relayed that in their statements. In their follow up post they state

All of the “Parents” both biological and adoptive must be fully investigated and held to account for why we are where we are today. The children involved are innocent and did not choose to be in this tragic situation.

No reiteration of the story told by the adoptive parents. I don't see any mention of a possible stranger abduction in their statements yet LE has stated that they suspect foul play so to me they believe its adoptive family or Bio family. MOO. Even Leticia Stauch had her defenders for some time.

(red text highlighted by me)
Yes - this is why I think the extended adopted family knew something was off right away as soon as they heard about the missing report. They didn't immediately start posting photos of the boys and missing posters and doing interviews on the 21st and then go quiet as the investigation took a turn. They were silent the 21st and stayed silent for two weeks.
 

cvaldez1975

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wow, they are very close in age. She must have gotten pregnant immediately after the eldest was born....
In one of the very first video interviews with the bio mom, standing in the street in front of the parent's home, the bio mom said "I don't even know them". She went on to say just after that, that she thinks they did something to her boys.

So... if she doesn't even know them, how in the world did she know where they live?
There seems to be a lot about this case that just doesn't make any sense.

this has been asked and i havent seen it answered but i may have missed it.

i think once their names came out and pics, and the alert, it said where they were missing from and she just went there and was able to figure it out due to LE presence. MOO
 

cvaldez1975

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"When asked if biological parents can obtain custody post-adoption, Slagle said the cases are rare, but still possible. It’s carefully decided by the courts and the biological parent has to prove they’ve changed since their custody was denied."

This^^^ is shocking to me. :eek: As an adoptive parent, in California, I would have been terrified to hear that statement....

We were always told, 100%, that our adoptions were FINAL and there was no way for the biofamilies to regain parental rights after we received the final court ruling. They told us and our children, in court, that we are the 'Forever Family. '

I am shocked to hear that a child could be taken away from their 'forever family' if the bio-parent eventually 'changed' their ways.


I cannot imagine having one of our kids taken away from us, their siblings, and grandparents, because years later their bio-mom gets sober and finds a house to rent. This is a frightening ruling, and I think it is somewhat new.

Just when did Social Services make the decision that a bio-parent has an open ended amount of time to get their lives in order, even if their child has been legally adopted and is fully engaged in a new 'forever family' dynamic? :(

i know private ones are final, maybe foster adoptions have a loop hole.
 

Dawookie

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I agree with you.

However it doesn’t say that all is required is for the bio parent to change their ways.

It does say it is extremely rare. If eg the adoptive parents die or are imprisoned for life or something, and none of the rest of the adoptive family - eg grandparents - will take the children; if the bio mom has turned her life around and is now a stable loving provider; perhaps in such circumstances the bio mom can apply and be considered carefully by the courts?

I’m sure it would only be considered in those, or similar, rare & exceptional circumstances - and in the best interest of the child. Surely?

And with all those changes in circumstances, behaviours, and wishes having to apply to both the bio and adoptive families it would be very rare I think.
From what I've read, since her parental rights were terminated, only the children would be able to apply and that's if they hadn't been adopted yet. Since they were adopted, who know what would have to happen
 

cvaldez1975

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I agree! What stuck out to me was that it appears that there is a perfectly rectangular depression in the soil around where they dug. Was there a concrete pad there? The edges look too clean for there have been a pad that they had broken up. The potholes that they dug also look very symmetrical, but that’s probably SOP when performing exploratory digging. Also, why did they dig in that particular place? The ground looks very solid and hard and it would be obvious is someone had dug a hole recently.

I have so many questions.

maybe they were taking the actual soil, because something was on it?
 

Rachelj1

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Someone knows exactly where those boys are . IMO there is no way in the world those 2 babies would of wondered off in the cold . If a dog attacked them there would of been a ton of blood , and if they were abducted the neighbors have video that clearly shows cars In and out of their home.
 

dillysmom11

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@dillysmom11 Can you speak to how privacy is addressed in adoptions where parental rights are revoked? Has a bio parent ever learned the name and address of the adoptive family and tried to see the kids or cause some sort of trouble after the adoption is finalized? Just curious about how that works in California?

In one of the video interviews, bio mom says she got to the home in Cal City 45 minutes after she was contacted. But doesn't give any further details, as someone else pointed out, she also said she didn't know them. So I assumed she knew how to get to the house from being interviewed by LE?

I don’t know much about CA, but generally (and this goes for all states), before an adoption is final a “contract” is entered into between parents. The adoptive family could have offered monthly supervised visits OR just yearly updates OR nothing at all... it’s really up to the adoptive parents. IF the parents are actively using, participating in criminal activity, etc, there is no physical contact. IF either side breaks contract, there is legal recourse. The adoptive family may stop all contact within reason.

The bottom line is, adoption isn’t temporary. I’m not sure why it’s being stated that bio families can “get their children back” after an adoption is final. In every document I’ve seen, adoptive parents become de facto biological parents and the children inherit all rights and privileges of bio children.

I’m a little put off by the fact that the bio parents/family showed up at their home. It really isn’t their business, legally speaking (hear me in a loving tone). So someone majorly dropped the ball and it needs to be address at some point, OR they just googled. You can find anyone on google, and it’s likely they had the info to do so.

I truly hope these boys are with someone. ❤️

MOO
 
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