CA CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by PommyMommy, Dec 21, 2020.

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  1. MadTing

    MadTing Well-Known Member

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    Mike from PE made a good point, has it been confirmed that the holes in the back yard were dug by LE?
     


  2. ChatteringBirds

    ChatteringBirds Well-Known Member

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    I thought about this also but just feel like other possibilities are much more likely, with the info. we have.
     
  3. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    This story is hard to follow. The parents have two biological sons, they are fostering two boys which the state pays them for, then they adopt Orson and Orrin which the state continues to pay them monthly for.

    Has this adoption been checked out that it is legal? Did each father sign his rights away legally? Have the FBI talked with each father and gotten the circumstances around the release of their child and the date? IMO, there are problems going back to the adoption of each boy. Get this cleared up then follow the trail of where the boys were, and you will solve this case.
     
  4. Algo214

    Algo214 Well-Known Member

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    They weren't adopted out by choice but taken away from the mother afaik.

    Agreed that the whole thing about them having that many children can be seen as suspect given their circumstances
    JMO.
     
  5. kshultz06082

    kshultz06082 Super Snooper

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    The word rambunctious is not what bothers me as much as the weird grunt he made immediately following saying rambunctious. I don't know what that was about, but it was weird.

    Jmo
     
  6. Frodosdojo

    Frodosdojo Well-Known Member

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    It was literally reported by the local news and is posted in this thread.

    They have 2 biological kids and 4 adopted children. This was reported on the 2nd page of the first thread. Both of the missing boys’ fathers signed their rights away. They were adopted through the state and likely receive whatever state benefits are available for adopted children in California.
     
  7. Frodosdojo

    Frodosdojo Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched the news clip of the reporters watching LE digging in the yard ?

    Mike didn’t even see TW get in the driver’s side door but he kept insisting maybe it was broken until Linda was able to correct him.

    He and Chris have been wrong plenty of times but I think they are helpful mostly. Mike said he felt the kids were gone before the move to California City.
     
  8. Betty Smith

    Betty Smith Member

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    That's a smart idea...didn't even think of that, amazingly enough! It just would have been strange for BOTH of the kids to die if it was a physical spur-of-the-moment rage thing from the parents. One might have who was the target of the violence, and the other saw it so he would have to die too...BUT that would be strange to kill BOTH of them if it was an accident with one. Yeah, medicine overdose theory sounds like a better possibility. They could have been snatched after walking out that gate by the estimated 25 registered pedophiles who were in the surrounding area, but I doubt it. As far as why the parents didn't search (I can see the police telling them to not and to stay put in the house) when everybody else did, or hit up social media within 3 days of their 3 and 4 yo. little children going missing...I wouldn't have done that, and LE probably told them not to do that also in order for LE to have ,the space to do their job by looking for the kids...instead of a whole bunch of strangers suddenly quizzing LE and mucking up evidence/witnesses in the critical first few days of a search.
     
  9. Hexe

    Hexe Well-Known Member

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    A punishment that went wrong could explain this. Maybe even something as simple as locking both boys together in an unheated place/, resulting in hypothermia and death.
     
  10. Emb72

    Emb72 Well-Known Member

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    Yes..the bio father did sign away his rights. And the adoption process, I firmly believe, was done through the state of California. So IMO, yes it was a legal adoption.
     
    dew-drop, ChiCubs2016, Eloise and 6 others like this.
  11. AmandaReckonwith

    AmandaReckonwith Defective Detective

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    Bill Garcia is back? I thought he bowed out of this case
     
  12. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    last updated 2:38 PM, Jan 14, 2021
    CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif. — A San Diego private investigator working the missing California City boys case pro bono, confirmed with 23ABC News Thursday that he is stepping down from the case.

    "I feel like I haven't been accepted as a professional in this particular case," Bill Garcia told 23ABC News.

    "I have run into this type of situation in the past," Garcia said. "It doesn't get better and it only spirals out of control. I recognize what is starting to happen with law enforcement. It's not productive for me to continue under these types of declining circumstances."
    Private investigator stepping down from California City missing boys case

    It seems like a publicity grab to me.
     
  13. Algo214

    Algo214 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification on that part, even as a native Spanish speaker I couldn't really tell which kids she was referring to.
    It's not the most important piece of information but it's something e.g gives an explanation other than "control freak" for them to be protective of the children.

    You know the drill, jmo.
     
  14. Emb72

    Emb72 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing up the bio dads vs dad!!
     
  15. NCHydrangea

    NCHydrangea Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been watching the neighbor’s security cam video of the “search”. I don’t see it, but it’s so grainy that maybe I missed it.

    When AD came back from “hitting all the corners”, I didn’t see him go back into the house or talking to AM before calling to report the boys missing.

    If he drove around to search for the boys, he should have checked with AM to see if she found them before calling LE to report them missing.
     
  16. AgeofAquaruis

    AgeofAquaruis Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm I wonder how stringent the vetting process really is. The children disappeared on who's watch? I fear for the other four children. Are they really going to be protected? MOO
     
  17. ForensicToxicologist

    ForensicToxicologist “People lie. Evidence doesn’t.”

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    Cell phone call or text maybe? That’d be easy for LE to verify, but we don’t know about anything found on their tech.

    I’ve been wondering if part of the reason/excuse they didn’t put out any statements and pleas until the 12/23 interview was because LE took all of their phones and computers (it was reported their tech was confiscated) and they were told to stay in the house which would leave no way to communicate with anyone. Now whether that would be an actual reason or just a possible excuse is anyone’s guess. They possibly still could’ve released a statement via LE.
     
  18. AgeofAquaruis

    AgeofAquaruis Well-Known Member

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    They can still do a presser with LE were they can be safe from as AM pointed out the "Bio Family" and the Vandalous public as well. They have voices, and Freedom of speech. MOO
     
  19. Jo in Calif

    Jo in Calif Well-Known Member

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    They sure didn't need phones or computers to go out and thank all the people that were there to help look for their boys on the 22nd.
    They had an opportunity to talk to media who knocked on their door the day after reporting them missing.

     
  20. ForensicToxicologist

    ForensicToxicologist “People lie. Evidence doesn’t.”

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    I’m not convinced the AP had nothing to do with the boys disappearance. I’m not trying to defend them on that note. However, I do believe we need to be careful in jumping to conclusions about specific actions. We don’t know what LE instructed them to do nor what communication resources they were left with. Maybe they could’ve released a statement through LE (as noted in my post) but at the same time, maybe LE said that wasn’t a good idea at the moment and not to talk to the media. That does happen in certain cases for strategic purposes. As far as going out to thank neighbors, I wouldn’t leave my home to go speak to the people shouting in front of my house and throwing rocks at it breaking windows. Even if some of them were out searching, many were acting out in the street. Again, I’m not saying they are 100% innocent. I welcome thoughts and ideas about behaviors too since really that’s all we have at this point. With that said, the lack of info is exactly why I think we should consider both possibilities here. 1. They didn’t speak out because they know more than they’re letting on, and 2. Maybe they weren’t able/allowed to for investigative and/or safety reasons.

    edited to clarify my thoughts better
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
    dew-drop, songbrd, elliefant and 12 others like this.
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