Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[grannygates]

I wasn’t able to find msm about BPD searching Bakersfield, but there was one about residents searching https://www.turnto23.com/news/crime...cal-city-boys-in-bakersfield-over-the-weekend

I’m of the mind that these boys didn’t make it to the new house. Maybe the reason for the move? Distance yourself from the “crime scene”. I looked up the old apartment building and there are two empty lots directly across the road, dozens of agri fields just to the left and a recycling centre with those big cesspools just a 7 min drive away. Would a person dispose so close to home? I worry that the disappearance was actually so long ago that whoever responsible had time on their side to cover up evidence.

 

[Rachelj1]

That's true but I think what people are saying is that they would like to know more about the boys from the parents who raised them or others who knew them or saw them on a regular basis.

They are more likely to know the boy's habits, their favorite activities, what games they like to play, who in their family they are close to, what their relationship is like with each other, whether or not they are shy, sociable, talkative, what music or shows they enjoy, their favorite food, etc.

Those are the things that would have helped paint a picture of what the boys are like and to help humanize them.

Imo

Well you want anything from the AP’s you get rambunctious. I mean it’s just pathetic the lack of descriptions. They had no bond with those children that is obvious .

moo

 

[susiQ]

NEWS ALERT. Arrest in the case of Roman Anthony Lopez!!
Here’s the page. Just scroll down. May there be justice for Orrin and Orson too!
Found Deceased - CA - Roman Anthony Lopez, 11, Placerville, 11 Jan 2020
Info from a verified insider.

Edit: Sorry, my bad, taken into custody, not arrest. I believe that info will come at the PC today at 11AM PST.

 

[Bbybluz]

I was reading through the link below from California’s Department of Social Services re: foster children and overnight stays:

https://www.cdss.ca.gov/lettersnotices/EntRes/getinfo/acin/2015/I-28_15.pdf

Pages 4-6 speak specifically to overnight care:

A caregiver may arrange for an “occasional short-term babysitter” for a child in foster care. A child in foster care may be babysat for up to 24 hours, including overnight.

OR

Occasionally, a caregiver needs or wants to be absent from the home for more than 24 hours. In these situations, a caregiver may use an “alternative caregiver” (a trusted family member, close friend, or neighbor) to care for the child in the caregiver’s home.

In addition, under the actual code (https://www.cdss.ca.gov/Portals/9/Regs/ffhman3.pdf), it states that if the alternative caregiver is going to be watching the foster child for more than 24 hours, they have to give verbal or written notice to the case worker.

So, if in fact 2 of the boys are foster children, the parents were breaking the rules by allowing them to stay at grandma’s (versus their own home, as required) for more than 24 hours. Also, did they give notice to the case worker they would be staying there? I can’t imagine this wouldn’t be info they had no knowledge of. So what was so pressing that they broke the rules? Granted, I don’t know what, if any, punishment someone can get by not following these guidelines (revocation of foster home license?) but it certainly is interesting to me.

Great point & ALSO on page 4 & 5 it states:

“PROVIDING CARE AND SUPERVISION IN FOSTER CARE
There are a number of options available for a caregiver who needs someone to temporarily care, for a short period of time, for a foster care child who has been placed in his or her care. Each of these options is most appropriate for a different range of situations.
• Babysitters for children in foster care,
• Alternative caregivers,
• Respite care,
• Leaving a child in foster care alone, or
• Day care
There are a few statutory and regulatory restrictions which a caregiver must follow, including:
• A child in foster care cannot be required to babysit other children (but can babysit if he or she chooses to do so, and the caregiver believes that he or she is able).

Information Release No. 2015-01
All County Information Notice No. I-28-15 Page 5
• A child in foster care cannot be left unsupervised overnight.
• If a caregiver is going to be absent for more than 72 hours, only alternative care in the home of the child in foster care may be used, and the child’s caseworker must give prior approval.
• A caregiver must supply to a babysitter or alternative caregiver all necessary information to care for the child in foster care, including emergency contact information.
• If a caregiver places a child in foster care into day care, he or she must use a licensed child care facility. BBM

What if the 2 grandmothers were licensed Foster Care card holders and work/worked in the Dept? Does this make a difference?

My own curiosity above

 

[Rachelj1]

Has there been any mention of the date of Dec 21st having any significance (family gathering for the holidays beginning the 22nd perhaps?) Realize that it was mentioned in a previous thread about only one piece of green sidewalk chalk and no visible doodles/artwork/scribbles on the back patio, was there mention of evidence of Christmas gift wrapping going on inside? Any gifts specific to/labeled for Orrin or Orsen being mentioned?

Not to my knowledge of anything being significant at all on the 21st. I think most people including myself have wondered WHY that day?

MOO

 

[TLobo]

I'm so torn on my thoughts about bio mom. On one hand, I feel awful for her having lost her boys twice now. Worse, this "second loss" (assuming they're gone, gone) wouldn't have happened without the "first loss," which was at least somewhat in her control at some time. I can't even begin to imagine how that feels. She hasn't seen them in over 2 years, per the 2/3/2021 KGET article, so while I appreciate that someone is trying to add a little color and description to who these little guys are, it is very outdated information. Two years ago, my now-4 year old was super in to tractors and imitating everything his dad and grandpa were doing at the farm. Now he loves drawing and math. There is SO much quick change in kids at this age. But bless her for showing us that there's at least one person out there who loved and loves these children enough to want to share their likes and quirks with the world.

On the other hand, I have such a hard time with people who don't complete their family reunification plan when it seems to be very reasonable to meet the goals (in my admittedly very privileged opinion, I know I could never put myself in anyone else's shoes). This is not at all intended to be victim blaming, just me wishing that she had cared this much about the boys 3 years ago. If a court told me give up water to get my kids back, you can bet I'd be finding other ways to hydrate. Moo.

 

[grannygates]

Not to my knowledge of anything being significant at all on the 21st. I think most people including myself have wondered WHY that day?

MOO

I’ve tried to look up local news around CC on dec21 to see if there were any other big news stories that maybe it was thought would overshadow this case or take up police time, but my results are all in re: O&O MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

That's true but I think what people are saying is that they would like to know more about the boys from the parents who raised them or others who knew them or saw them on a regular basis.

They are more likely to know the boy's habits, their favorite activities, what games they like to play, who in their family they are close to, what their relationship is like with each other, whether or not they are shy, sociable, talkative, what music or shows they enjoy, their favorite food, etc.

Those are the things that would have helped paint a picture of what the boys are like and to help humanize them.

Imo

Mediterranean by me for lovely auto correct!

I completely agree with you IF ONLY the adopted family gave two hoots to do so! IMHO There isn’t any sign from LE of sealed lips or no public pleas nor zip orders on the TV/radio/social media outpouring cries for their adopted boys/relatives!! That’s what has curled my stomach!

Now for all the above you mentioned....when it is a fact that the AP/family isn’t willing to give this type of information I (speaking for myself only) put them on the back burner of reliable sources. I have moved on to seeing who next can provide what I need, to feel like I am still connected in the help for finding these precious boys.

The Bio Mom has been raising her care level in my eyes. Yes I agree we all may have placed her equally with the AP’s at first but she started from the FIRST daytime (meaning Dec 22nd) & hasn’t stopped since! Minus grieving & guilt times of course. I would be beating myself up too if in that situation. I am not in that situation nor have I ever been as a mom but I try to step into shoes before judging too. No I never thought you were judging @MsBetsy you are very kind!

All above MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

Mediterranean by me for lovely auto correct!

I completely agree with you IF ONLY the adopted family gave two hoots to do so! IMHO There isn’t any sign from LE of sealed lips or no public pleas nor zip orders on the TV/radio/social media outpouring cries for their adopted boys/relatives!! That’s what has curled my stomach!

Now for all the above you mentioned....when it is a fact that the AP/family isn’t willing to give this type of information I (speaking for myself only) put them on the back burner of reliable sources. I have moved on to seeing who next can provide what I need, to feel like I am still connected in the help for finding these precious boys.

The Bio Mom has been raising her care level in my eyes. Yes I agree we all may have placed her equally with the AP’s at first but she started from the FIRST daytime (meaning Dec 22nd) & hasn’t stopped since! Minus grieving & guilt times of course. I would be beating myself up too if in that situation. I am not in that situation nor have I ever been as a mom but I try to step into shoes before judging too. No I never thought you were judging @MsBetsy you are very kind!

All above MOO

LMButtO oh Lordy NOT Mediterranean EITHER!! It was supposed to say:

Edited by me because of the lovely autocorrect!!

 

[Bbybluz]

If anyone has not seen this, I have saved nearly everything I can find. Mostly from MSM.
It's a Case Archive. Everything from beginning to end so I will updated as long as there is something reported.

Orrin and Orson West -CA-

YOU ROCK!!! On my side there is a well worn path from me to your achieves for research & refreshing my memory! I usually find something I hadn’t remembered seeing before so THANK YOU!!

 

[JC40]

Bio Mum.

"I have a home, i have a car, i have a job, i have money, nothing to provide for them. I don't come..i come from a good background"

Make of that what you will.

 

[Bbybluz]

Bio Mum.

"I have a home, i have a car, i have a job, i have money, nothing to provide for them. I don't come..i come from a good background"

Make of that what you will.

I was looking for that link can you provide it please & thank you.

 

[JC40]

I was looking for that link can you provide it please & thank you.

 

[kyrarose]

Bio Mum.

"I have a home, i have a car, i have a job, i have money, nothing to provide for them. I don't come..i come from a good background"

Make of that what you will.

She sounds like me when I am upset. I revise my statements as I am speaking and often mix up my words.

 

[Knox]

Bio Mum.

"I have a home, i have a car, i have a job, i have money, nothing to provide for them. I don't come..i come from a good background"

Make of that what you will.

Sort of an unfair assessment of what Ryan is trying to convey, IMO. If you watch the video, you understand what she is trying to get out, but is so emotional it's a bit scrambled. Do I give RD more latitude than Trezell and Jacqueline? Yes, yes, I sure do. Had I seen that sort of emotion and an account of going missing that didn't "play out" like swiss cheese. I'd have a much different opinion.

 

[Rachelj1]

Sort of an unfair assessment of what Ryan is trying to convey, IMO. If you watch the video, you understand what she is trying to get out, but is so emotional it's a bit scrambled. Do I give RD more latitude than Trezell and Jacqueline? Yes, yes, I sure do. Had I seen that sort of emotion and an account of going missing that didn't "play out" like swiss cheese. I'd have a much different opinion.

Me too! When TW took that deep breath before he told his story... I was like here we go...Neither one of them shed a tear. Unbelievable? They kept saying over and over we had to stay inside. Well Jaqueline....from the security camera they didn't need to tell you ? YOU never searched outside.
That is my whole thing with them....no emotion. The bio mom is real.

MOO

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Bio Mum.

"I have a home, i have a car, i have a job, i have money, nothing to provide for them. I don't come..i come from a good background"

Make of that what you will.

I believe you left out a word, she said "it's nothing to provide for them". Meaning it wouldn't be a problem, she believes she has the physical/financial resources necessary. IMO.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Not to my knowledge of anything being significant at all on the 21st. I think most people including myself have wondered WHY that day?

MOO

I wonder if they were being considered for taking in more fosters. In addition to their growing brood 6. Ie an emergency placement for a child. Popped up. They obviously are on a favored Fostering/adopting list. So there would be an inspection, meeting up with TW,JW,and the littles,and children already in the home. Then that's when it all played out. MOO

 

[MoeInVA]

I wonder if they were being considered for taking in more fosters. In addition to their growing brood 6. Ie an emergency placement for a child. Popped up. They obviously are on a favored Fostering/adopting list. So there would be an inspection, meeting up with TW,JW,and the littles,and children already in the home. Then that's when it all played out. MOO

Now that we hear from the chief they supposedly still had foster children, I wonder if a home study was planned for that week to check out their new home.

Alternatively, family demand/ Christmas.

Or just a convenient time to make the report now that they finally secured their new house and have someone to watch the other kids.

 

[fcavanaugh]

That's true but I think what people are saying is that they would like to know more about the boys from the parents who raised them or others who knew them or saw them on a regular basis.

They are more likely to know the boy's habits, their favorite activities, what games they like to play, who in their family they are close to, what their relationship is like with each other, whether or not they are shy, sociable, talkative, what music or shows they enjoy, their favorite food, etc.

Those are the things that would have helped paint a picture of what the boys are like and to help humanize them.

Imo

You’re right @MsBetsy.
IMO, well adjusted parents that are emotionally attached and bonded with their children would be doing everything you mention above, and more. It is my opinion after observing them and listening to their imo distancing language in their 12/23/20 media appearance, in addition to everything they haven’t done since the boys went missing, no public pleas, wondering if the boys are ok, safe, cold, hungry, no searching etc., that TW and JW are not emotionally attached/bonded with little O & O, and that is why they haven’t, aren’t able to tell us all those things/humanize them.

It’s so sad to think about what these precious, tiny boys have endured in their short lives.

All of the above IMHOO

ETA-words, punctuation