Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[Rachelj1]

I'm grateful they used "rambunctious" because that word alone gives me an impression of the kids behavior and personalities and it kinda sinks the "escaped out the gate" narrative. Has anyone here ever seen 2 quiet rambunctious kids? IF (big IF) the kids ran out the gate, one would be chasing the other, they would be giggling and running around in circles. In other words, they would be loud and running around in no particular direction thru wide open lots... so, if that happened, and TW was only inside for a moment, they would have been easily found by following the sounds of their loud, high pitched, childlike giggles and squeals... or just by looking and seeing 2 little kids roughhousing, playing tag with each other, etc... these are 3 and 4 year old kids, they didn't plan their own disappearance. To them, they would have just been outside having fun not thinking about danger or hiding from people.

Of course, others will argue that they could have been abducted... really tho? In the moment that TW went inside, an abductor just happened to show up and managed to wrangle 2 RAMBUNCTIOUS kids into a car without the kids making a peep all while not knowing how quickly TW would be back outside? That seems VERY risky on the abductors part. Jmo

The word RAMBUNCTIOUS to me, destroys any theory in my mind that something happened not involving the AP. I think the boys were rambunctious because 3 and 4 year olds are rambunctious. Where the rambunctiousness becomes a problem is when it irritates someone in the home... like, maybe someone with PTSD or a drinking problem that just wants these rambunctious kids to be quiet or sit still or stop bugging them with their toddler needs... I'm just saying... jmo

I would love to hear others thoughts along these lines.

I agree with you so much .

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm grateful they used "rambunctious" because that word alone gives me an impression of the kids behavior and personalities and it kinda sinks the "escaped out the gate" narrative. Has anyone here ever seen 2 quiet rambunctious kids? IF (big IF) the kids ran out the gate, one would be chasing the other, they would be giggling and running around in circles. In other words, they would be loud and running around in no particular direction thru wide open lots... so, if that happened, and TW was only inside for a moment, they would have been easily found by following the sounds of their loud, high pitched, childlike giggles and squeals... or just by looking and seeing 2 little kids roughhousing, playing tag with each other, etc... these are 3 and 4 year old kids, they didn't plan their own disappearance. To them, they would have just been outside having fun not thinking about danger or hiding from people.

Of course, others will argue that they could have been abducted... really tho? In the moment that TW went inside, an abductor just happened to show up and managed to wrangle 2 RAMBUNCTIOUS kids into a car without the kids making a peep all while not knowing how quickly TW would be back outside? That seems VERY risky on the abductors part. Jmo

The word RAMBUNCTIOUS to me, destroys any theory in my mind that something happened not involving the AP. I think the boys were rambunctious because 3 and 4 year olds are rambunctious. Where the rambunctiousness becomes a problem is when it irritates someone in the home... like, maybe someone with PTSD or a drinking problem that just wants these rambunctious kids to be quiet or sit still or stop bugging them with their toddler needs... I'm just saying... jmo

I would love to hear others thoughts along these lines.

I interpret this a bit differently on one aspect. Yes, I agree the word "rambunctious" (I know, we have discussed this word ad infinitum) was not used in a kindly way based on the AP's tone; more so in a contemptuous manner.

Further, as I reflect on, and listen to the interview with the parents again and again I notice that (to me), the children are not referred to lovingly, as precious little beings, but (seem) to be referred to as objects. Sort of reminds me of the infamous Turpins and their "Thing #1, #2, etc."

As I sit here sipping my coffee this morning thinking about these 2 little boys, the word "recruit" comes to mind. Were they treated like two little soldiers, "recruits" in some misshapen kiddie boot camp. But "recruits" for *what*?
If this persistent notion is correct, what exactly had they been recruited for?

The only point where I differ with your thoughts is that I can imagine a situation where a little four year old mind decided to take his brother and escape. I keep think about that photo I posted upthread of them, and the looks on their faces. It truly haunts me.

Is running away my primary speculation? NO, it's not. Is it possible? Meh....maybe. Sadly, I think something far more sinister than two little tikes making a break for it transpired.

Like all of you, I am eagerly awaiting the press conference tomorrow (?). Who knows, they might even be announcing arrests. LE certainly seems to be hot on the trail.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Acorunadepor]

I interpret this a bit differently on one aspect. Yes, I agree the word "rambunctious" (I know, we have discussed this word ad infinitum) was not used in a kindly way based on the AP's tone; more so in a contemptuous manner.

Further, as I reflect on, and listen to the interview with the parents again and again I notice that (to me), the children are not referred to lovingly, as precious little beings, but (seem) to be referred to as objects. Sort of reminds me of the infamous Turpins and their "Thing #1, #2, etc."

As I sit here sipping my coffee this morning thinking about these 2 little boys, the word "recruit" comes to mind. Were they treated like two little soldiers, "recruits" in some misshapen kiddie boot camp. But "recruits" for *what*?
If this persistent notion is correct, what exactly had they been recruited for?

The only point where I differ with your thoughts is that I can imagine a situation where a little four year old mind decided to take his brother and escape. I keep think about that photo I posted upthread of them, and the looks on their faces. It truly haunts me.

Is running away my primary speculation? NO, it's not. Is it possible? Meh....maybe. Sadly, I think something far more sinister than two little tikes making a break for it transpired.

Like all of you, I am eagerly awaiting the press conference tomorrow (?). Who knows, they might even be announcing arrests. LE certainly seems to be hot on the trail.

Amateur opinion and speculation

You are right there are no positives. I counted just two neutrals, and further more only negatives when I listened to it again this morning.

The adoptive father also used the word ''it''. Which gave me the chills. "And it came to us and it became our children."

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I'm wondering...
Why no MSM coverage of the search of the West Sr home until it was over?
Even during the CC searches, news was all over it.
It's not like B'field reporters had to drive 70 miles east to cover the search.

 

[Lusitana]

I'm wondering...
Why no MSM coverage of the search of the West Sr home until it was over?
Even during the CC searches, news was all over it.
It's not like B'field reporters had to drive 70 miles east to cover the search.

Maybe there was some real effort put into keeping it a secret. I don't think the media was supposed to know and see them getting out with brown bags.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Orrin and Orson West -CA-

Case Archive

 

[LietKynes]

You are right there are no positives. I counted just two neutrals, and further more only negatives when I listened to it again this morning.

The adoptive father also used the word ''it''. Which gave me the chills. "And it came to us and it became our children."

Oh, my.
I missed that.
Strange wording.
Yikes !

Hoping for a break soon !
I keep thinking if someone knows something and rolls on another person......
*fingers crossed*
MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

This photo has always bothered me a great deal, despite the kindly look of the older gentleman. I can't get past the look on the face of the boys...it haunts me, and (for me) speaks volumes.
Source of photo: Family of missing toddlers speaks out, says they're public targets

Amateur opinion and speculation

This one has haunted me also...

 

[Rachelj1]

I'm wondering...
Why no MSM coverage of the search of the West Sr home until it was over?
Even during the CC searches, news was all over it.
It's not like B'field reporters had to drive 70 miles east to cover the search.

I think they probably came in by surprise .
Moo

 

[rosesfromangels]

You are right there are no positives. I counted just two neutrals, and further more only negatives when I listened to it again this morning.

The adoptive father also used the word ''it''. Which gave me the chills. "And it came to us and it became our children."

"It" is the same as the Turpins "Thing #_" from my viewpoint.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[kshultz06082]

I interpret this a bit differently on one aspect. Yes, I agree the word "rambunctious" (I know, we have discussed this word ad infinitum) was not used in a kindly way based on the AP's tone; more so in a contemptuous manner.

Further, as I reflect on, and listen to the interview with the parents again and again I notice that (to me), the children are not referred to lovingly, as precious little beings, but (seem) to be referred to as objects. Sort of reminds me of the infamous Turpins and their "Thing #1, #2, etc."

As I sit here sipping my coffee this morning thinking about these 2 little boys, the word "recruit" comes to mind. Were they treated like two little soldiers, "recruits" in some misshapen kiddie boot camp. But "recruits" for *what*?
If this persistent notion is correct, what exactly had they been recruited for?

The only point where I differ with your thoughts is that I can imagine a situation where a little four year old mind decided to take his brother and escape. I keep think about that photo I posted upthread of them, and the looks on their faces. It truly haunts me.

Is running away my primary speculation? NO, it's not. Is it possible? Meh....maybe. Sadly, I think something far more sinister than two little tikes making a break for it transpired.

Like all of you, I am eagerly awaiting the press conference tomorrow (?). Who knows, they might even be announcing arrests. LE certainly seems to be hot on the trail.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree 100% about them not using a single positive adjective to describe these sweet, adorable babies. They did not mean rambunctious in a nice way. I just like that it gave some insight into their feelings about the boys and made me side eye them hard. But the word rambunctious conjures a pic in my mind of loud playful kids and in my mind,it would be hard to not find 2 loud children that were only supposedly unsupervised for a hot minute. They destroyed their own story by using that word. I did not mean to imply that I thought they were using it lovingly. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[TLobo]

I think it's possible a younger child would have no need to go to the Pediatrician often, if home-schooled and not exposed to other children outside the home. During lockdown/ homeschooling, suddenly there were no illnesses in our home, compared to the frequent illnesses when the children are in school. It was very noticeable, for us anyway, how well social distancing worked .
And I think O & O and siblings were pretty isolated.
BUT yes, they should have had their yearly appointments around their birthdays and at least one dentist visit annually. And it will be interesting to hear when a professional last saw either boy.
All statements IMO.

Yes, limited interaction with others due to homeschool and not being in daycare means fewer opportunities to pick up germs. And some kids just have stronger immune systems and don't get sick, or at least sick enough to warrant a doctor's visit. We've only seen the pediatrician twice in the last 5 years for visits outside of well checks, with 3 kids. We'll roll flu shots in to my fall birthday child's visit.

But even if they'd chosen to delay their visits around their birthdays because of high covid numbers, I would have expected them to have made up those visits in the 4-6 intervening months between their birthdays and when they "went missing" in December. MOO.

 

[MoeInVA]

I'm wondering...
Why no MSM coverage of the search of the West Sr home until it was over?
Even during the CC searches, news was all over it.
It's not like B'field reporters had to drive 70 miles east to cover the search.

Presumably they didn't tell media because they didn't want to have to answer questions. And apparently MSM is not well sourced on their block.

Re: Cal City media coverage of searches - At times I think it was planned that way (after a press conference in the Cal City neighborhood, while media still lingering about, they executed another search warrant one time). Other times, I think it was a matter of good sourcing. I think the intrepid reporter Bayan Wang cultivated a source in the Cal City neighborhood (she was credited on some of the photos including when they were using the ground radar and one of the vigils I think).

 

[Spartygirl]

“Investigators were seen leaving with "brown bags" according to neighbor Vina Jefferson.
“...But that truck that's in the yard wasn't there," said Jefferson.

I wonder what she’s referring to with “the truck” there’s no context.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...in-connection-to-missing-california-city-boys

BBM- from the article and what I found very interesting.
""over 20 Search Warrants ???""
"" contact with the boys in the "PAST YEAR" !!

sounds like LE is acting with due diligence, Thank Goodness.

Sgt. Pair was able to confirm that BPD has executed more than 20 search warrants in the case so far at residences in Bakersfield, California City, and other jurisdictions.

BPD is asking anyone who had contact with the boys in the past year, "regardless of the context" to contact the department through the Secret Witness hotline 661-322-4040.

 

[rosesfromangels]

BPD is asking anyone who had contact with the boys in the past year, "regardless of the context" to contact the department through the Secret Witness hotline 661-322-4040.

Snipped for focused reply.
Well that seems very revealing, doesn't it....

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM- from the article and what I found very interesting.
""over 20 Search Warrants ???""
"" contact with the boys in the "PAST YEAR" !!

sounds like LE is acting with due diligence, Thank Goodness.

Sgt. Pair was able to confirm that BPD has executed more than 20 search warrants in the case so far at residences in Bakersfield, California City, and other jurisdictions.

BPD is asking anyone who had contact with the boys in the past year, "regardless of the context" to contact the department through the Secret Witness hotline 661-322-4040.

More than 20 search warrants at residences in Bakersfield, Cal City and other jurisdictions.

That really stood out to me as well.
I suspect the probable cause affidavits for the arrest warrant(s) are going to be downright heartbreaking.

jmo

 

[mickey2942]

"Homeschooling"

 

[Number8]

You are right there are no positives. I counted just two neutrals, and further more only negatives when I listened to it again this morning.

The adoptive father also used the word ''it''. Which gave me the chills. "And it came to us and it became our children."

Hmm. A lot has been read into the AP’s on-camera interview and a lot of dissecting of words. It’s interesting to hear everyone’s interpretations, however, to me, what struck me most is HOW uncomfortable, unprepared, and off guard they were, and how it seemed like they were so nervous that everything they said came out as word-salad. At one point JW even stops talking because she can’t get the words out properly. Using “it” instead of “they” (JMHO) seems more like a word-stumble than anything else.

But that, of course, is very telling in and of itself. It’s why I really believe whatever happened to the kids was an accident (either through punishment or neglect). These people are not criminal masterminds. They could barely string their sentences together when put on the spot. Their whole story falls apart at the seams and implicates them almost right away.

The more time passes, the more I really think that something happened in Bakersfield and rather than calling the police/reporting it and facing the consequences, they panicked and covered it up and got rid of the evidence. They ran away from the problem and moved to a new city. But then as time passed, it got harder and harder to explain the kid’s absence and then as christmas (and a family gathering) approached they decided to fake an incident.

I DID feel that they were trying to sell the narrative that the kids either got into trouble themselves or were taken, and I think using “rambunctious”, combined with TW’s weird comments about how he’s not gonna go door-to-door despite his suspicions, is meant to imply that the boys would fight back and someone (nearby) was silencing/containing them.

Hoping for some action this week, Bakersfield LE seem to be building to a crescendo and it feels like a break is imminent.

Everything is my opinion only and pure speculation of course.

 

[Knox]

Hmm. A lot has been read into the AP’s on-camera interview and a lot of dissecting of words. It’s interesting to hear everyone’s interpretations, however, to me, what struck me most is HOW uncomfortable, unprepared, and off guard they were, and how it seemed like they were so nervous that everything they said came out as word-salad. At one point JW even stops talking because she can’t get the words out properly. Using “it” instead of “they” (JMHO) seems more like a word-stumble than anything else.
But that, of course, is very telling in and of itself. It’s why I really believe whatever happened to the kids was an accident (either through punishment or neglect). These people are not criminal masterminds. They could barely string their sentences together when put on the spot. Their whole story falls apart at the seams and implicates them almost right away.

The more time passes, the more I really think that something happened in Bakersfield and rather than calling the police/reporting it and facing the consequences, they panicked and covered it up and got rid of the evidence. They ran away from the problem and moved to a new city. But then as time passed, it got harder and harder to explain the kid’s absence and then as christmas (and a family gathering) approached they decided to fake an incident.
I DID feel that they were trying to sell the narrative that the kids either got into trouble themselves or were taken, and I think using “rambunctious”, combined with TW’s weird comments about how he’s not gonna go door-to-door despite his suspicions, is meant to imply that the boys would fight back and someone (nearby) was silencing/containing them.

Hoping for some action this week, Bakersfield LE seem to be building to a crescendo and it feels like a break is imminent.

Everything is my opinion only and pure speculation of course.

Great post and I agree with you. I can't recall a case where so little is known about the parents of two missing children, very strange. No real digital footprints, which in this day and age is somewhat rare. No friends or even neighbors speaking out about them personally, save for one in Bakersfield who a YouTuber spoke too (no real details there either). They appeared on camera once and then disappeared from the landscape never to be heard from again

The other thing that struck me were the statements from the extended West family, made on the website they created. They quickly separated themselves from Trezell & Jacqueline, never once backed them up or supported them. What is that all about? Nothing at all from any of Jacqueline's family. I guess after seeing how some of the YouTubers behaved, you can't blame them for remaining silent and out of the camera view?

Hoping Monday brings new developments!!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if the other two non-bio kids show any signs of neglect or abuse?

Amateur opinion and speculation