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CA CA - Rancho Palos Verdes, WhtMale 828UMCA, 46-5, 'Ma Jose', Jan'01

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by zinc, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. zinc

    zinc Member

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    NamUs UP Case 3357
    https://identifyus.org/cases/3357

    Los Angeles County Coroner Case 2001-00616
    CAUTION: postmortem photo at following link: http://coroner.co.la.ca.us/htm/uipdetail.cfm?proc_flg=L&unid_case_num=2001-00616

    The Doe Network: Case File 828UMCA
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/828umca.html


    Unidentified White Male

    The victim was discovered on January 23, 2001 in Rancho Palos Verdes, Los Angeles County, California
    Estimated Date of Death: circa January 23, 2001
    Formerly Hot Case # 132

    Vital Statistics
    Estimated age: 45+ years old
    Approximate Height and Weight: 6'2"; 183 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Gray hair; blue eyes. Tattoos are a bird on left arm, a Lion with a crown on right forarm, a sword with a cross and Mike on left forarm, star on the top of right knee.
    [Also: He had no appendix.]
    Clothing: Tan slacks, Calvin Klein t-shirt, brown belt, Fela sweatshirt, New Balance tennis shoes, moss-green vest lined with blue fleece.
    Jewelry: [Yellow metal] Omega watch inscribed "Ma Jose Madrid 97"; ring: plain yellow metal band inscribed, "Ma Jose"; yellow metal chain necklace with a star charm and one clear stone inscribed "Michael".

    Case History
    The victim was located sitting up against a tree facing the ocean at Del Cerro Park in Rancho Palos Verdes, California on January 23, 2001. He may have been hiking in the area.

    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Los Angeles County Coroner
    Daniel Machian
    (323) 343-0754 or (323) 222-0343
    E-mail:
    dmachian@co.la.ca.us
    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    Agency Case Number: 2001-00616

    NCIC Number: U-240003572
    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
     
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  3. zinc

    zinc Member

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    This case interests me because of the inscriptions on the jewelry, and the number of tattoos. Throwing some thoughts out there?

    "Ma Jose" is certainly someone's or something's name. It is likely to be short for "María José" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs ). "Madrid" can be either a location (as in Madrid, Spain) or a surname. "97" might refer to the year 1997.

    Did this man marry a woman named María José in 1997? In Madrid? Was she perhaps named María José Madrid... etc.? Did the man have a daughter named María José who was born in 1997?

    María José is also the name of a Mexican pop singer who was formerly part of a big Mexican pop group called Kabah. Did they tour in Madrid in 1997?

    One of the pieces of jewelry is inscribed "Michael" and one of the tattoos on his arm reads "Mike". Is this man's name Michael/Mike? Does he have a son or other relative named Michael? Could Michael or Mike even be anglicizations of the name Miguel?

    Just for the heck of it, I did some Googling and found a Michael married to a María José living in Seville, Spain, but he appears to be alive and well.

    Edited to add: Based on the tattoos of the crosses and the lion with the crown, it might be a safe bet to assume that the UID identified as a Christian and was probably religious.
     
  4. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    The sword and cross is a popular prison tattoo especially among Hispanics. The Crown
    with Lion is also a gang related tattoo. I did not view the tattoo but would be interested to know if it was a 5 point Crown. Either way, I would say he may have his own standard of 'religion' but not one we are familiar with.
     
  5. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Anyone have a postmortem photo? The one at the link is not working for me.
    If not, is there a photo of the tattoos?
     
  6. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I was told by Liz Napoles of the Los Angeles County Coroner's office that a law was passed prohibiting the display of postmortem photos on the coroner's websites. I'm not sure if it was a state law or a local law, but whatever the case, they are no longer available.

    She said that she was not happy about this, as it is going to severely hamper their ability to identify these people.
     
  7. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Thank you Carl! I thought I was having pc problems each time I tried to access LA ME.
    Yep! This will definitely slow down progress for them.

    In this case if we could confirm with a visual that the "Crown" was a five point one, we have a "Hispanic" victim rather than Latino or Mexican. Don't ask me the difference, but each group has their own identifying tats and get offended, sometimes fatally so, if mistaken for someone of another group.
    I just looked on NamUS and they didn't even bother to note the description of the tattoos. Another reason people will go unidentified.
     
  8. Claudette

    Claudette Alouette, je te plumerai

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    From what I've been told Latino is an all encompassing term for anyone with Latino heritage (Mexican, Puerto Rican, etc...not sure what specific countries). Mexican is, well, a person from Mexico strictly.

    This could be wrong, but I believe this was told to me by someone who is Latino.
     
  9. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Thanks Claudette. That makes sense as Hispanics do not want to be lumped into one ball of wax with the identity name.
     
  10. RubyRed

    RubyRed "Keep on Truckin"

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    I have been searching for pics of the tattoos but haven't found any.
     
  11. Julessleuther

    Julessleuther Active Member

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    FWIW, I can offer some local perspective on this park, having lived in that area for 3 yrs. This park is very much off the beaten path, in a very high end residential area. There is a Catholic church (St John Fisher) within 1 mile of this park. (My son made his first Eucharist at St John Fisher). There are mountain bike and hiking trails in this park, but it would have been difficult for him to get to this park without transportation (perhaps public transit?)

    Regarding the Ma Jose Madrid 97--could that have anything to do with the Real Madrid Soccer team? Maybe a player he liked? Maybe he played on the team?

    The man appears to be hispanic, but he has blue eyes, which would indicate Northern European heritage somewhere in his lineage-blue eyes are more rare in Spain, Italy, Portugal etc.

    It is also interesting to note that his ring is incribed Micheal, not Michel, which would be the spanish version of Micheal. So was he European or American?
     
  12. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Aside from Beverly Hills/Bel Aire/Brentwood, Palos Verdes is probably some of the most expensive real estate in Los Angeles County.

    There is also the Wayfarers Chapel near Portugese Bend which is below the park toward the ocean. I suspect he was probably hiking up the hill from below, and was overcome from exhaustion when he reached the top. Back in the days when I was into bicycling, I used to bicycle up Hawthorne Blvd over the peninsula from the West end. It was a brutal climb.

    And I agree that it isn't someplace that you just walk to. He must have left a car or was given a ride there. I doubt he took a bus, but that is JMHO.

    I thought Miguel was the Spanish version of Michael.
     
  13. Julessleuther

    Julessleuther Active Member

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    You are correct about Miguel being Micheal, I guess it was too late last night for in my thought process. Michel is often used in Spain as a nickname for soccer (football) players. It has nothing to do with Spanish/Micheal, but is the French and German form of Micheal. I was thinking of the soccer angle, and that the spelling was the English version, not European.


     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I was in RPV today, so I decided to take a little detour up to the end of Crenshaw Blvd to Del Cerro Park, just to take a look at the area.

    Here is the google map showing Del Cerro Park (marked "A"). To the right of the "A", you can see the hiking trail winding down the steep hill toward the cliffs overlooking the ocean. It is a very long and steep trail, the length and steepness of which one can't appreciate by looking at the google map.

    del cerro park palos verdes map - Google Maps

    I didn't have my camera with me, but I was able to take some photos with my iPhone.

    Here are the trees where John Doe was found.

    [​IMG]

    Beyond the trees is a overlook with a magnificent view of the ocean and rugged shoreline. Here is a video clip taken from my iPhone.

    Sun, 19 Sep - YouTube

    Standing at the overlook, one can easily imagine how someone who is not in ideal shape could be overcome from exhaustion trying to hike up that hill.
     
  15. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I agree, Rancho Palos Verdes is a difficult area to walk, even if you are walking from one house to another. I wonder if there were any cars were "abandoned" around the time that the gentleman was found?
     
  16. Julessleuther

    Julessleuther Active Member

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    A couple things I noticed:

    Omega watches are not cheap, they are actually quite expensive. Usually expensive watches such as these have serial number information, and are "registered". The fact that it is engraved makes it even more unique. Has LE contacted Omega to find out who the watch was registered to?

    Also, do we know cause of death? Was it heart attack? Suicide? Drug overdose? There may be a specific reason he was there, especially if it were suicide.
     
  17. zinc

    zinc Member

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    From an archived January 26, 2001 Daily Breeze article:
     
  18. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I finally got ahold of the postmortem photo for the Del Cerro Park John Doe, and I did a reconstruction for him.

    This is what I think he looked like.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. DippyBlonder

    DippyBlonder New Member

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    Ma. in Spain is a girls name given to a boy. Most likely to be Maria (as the 'nickname' is usually Mikey), however it could be Mariano or Marian.
     
  20. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Well-Known Member

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    So we have tattoos with Christian and/or European heraldic imagery (seeing those tattoos sure would be helpful), on a guy who liked to hike and was probably named Ma. Jose aka Mike or Michael and had either lived in or visited Madrid circa 1997 and may have liked to hike.

    I wonder if perhaps he could have made the pilgrimage on the Way of St. James (El Camino de Santiago) in 1997. Religious, Madrid, hiker, it could make sense. I know they give out little passports to be marked along the journey but I don't know if they actually keep a list or photos of the pilgrims they register or if its just a souvenir kind of thing.
     
  21. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Well-Known Member

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