CA-Sandra Cantu Missing/Located from Tracy, #8

[wfgodot]

If this has already been posted...sorry
I haven't been able to read through the threads much the past couple of days, I just scan through and I remembered seeing that the preacher man had several alias' but I couldn't locate then until now.

Alias’ for the preacher man
Clane Lawless
Clifford L Lawless
Clifford Lane Lawless
Cliford L Lawless
Lane C Lawless
Lane P Lawless
Clifford L Alwless

Former residences of the preacher man
Tracy , CA
Livermore , CA
Hawthorne , CA
San Jose , CA
Milpitas , CA

These seem not so much aliases as they do misspellings and typos. And I've had more residences than that.

 

[frankieiiiieee]

If this has already been posted...sorry
I haven't been able to read through the threads much the past couple of days, I just scan through and I remembered seeing that the preacher man had several alias' but I couldn't locate then until now.

Alias’ for the preacher man
Clane Lawless
Clifford L Lawless
Clifford Lane Lawless
Cliford L Lawless
Lane C Lawless
Lane P Lawless
Clifford L Alwless

Former residences of the preacher man
Tracy , CA
Livermore , CA
Hawthorne , CA
San Jose , CA
Milpitas , CA

what????!!!!! why does a preacher need so many different names?! that's odd not saying he's guilty but he gave me the creeps with that little smirk when they asked if he had anything to do with it. could be nervous but it gave me a chill! He became a preacher in the 70s if i recall correctly.

 

[wfgodot]

Aliases almost always involve use of a different surname.

 

[STEADFAST]

Here's the link to the forum (actually, you're in a thread of it now!) Please start threads called things like "Lawless," "Wohler," "Luggage," "Backpack?" You know, stuff like that.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=324

 

[MDdetective]

Aliases almost always involve use of a different surname.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, like when someone gets married and changes their last name ??? O/T your puppy is sooooooo cute

 

[scandi]

Sgt. Sheneman called the crime "an aberration," causing some to think they have their suspect(s) under surveillance and that there's not a serial killer running around.

Hi Wfgodot, I guess I read that differently, as to me the word aberration means a 'State or condition markedly different from the norm' {Thesaurus}.

I would think having a suspect/s under surveillance would be the norm after 2 weeks into a case. I don't think it infers that there is NOT a serial killer around at all, in fact I'm thinking this could be a deviation from the norm in itself in the case of a missing child who has been found murdered.

Also, colloquially, I have often thought it meant something that is kind of mixed up and not how one would expect it to be. In this case there are many factors that are entering the case which may not be normal for the typical case where a child goes missing and is then found deceased.

Those other factors call in a whole different field of expertise possibly, and this might make the standard for solving the case more difficult.

The first thing that comes to mind is in the victim's home town there is a network of SP's who use the internet to sell *advertiser censored*, including that of adults having sex with children. I have read that here. It leaves the investigation to discover if this is why Sandra was taken, what with the searching of both church bldgs and many homes in the MHP. That would be determining if photos were taken of her.

The second is the manner in which she was taken and the quick turnaround of finding her body. They are typically the MO of both serial killers and Sexual Predators. It almost seems like the classic case to me even though many believe she knew this guy/s as he most likely lived in the MHP, LE putting all their focus in that area we have heard {except the disposal site}.

Pat Brown, whether posters like her or not, is an expert in serial killers - it is her field of expertise. And today the SK {who is possibly a SP as well} was her main point about this perp. Even Chicago stated as much in her post, as she took the time to rewatch the show and give much more info than I had gleaned.

I just don't think we can at this point rule out this perp is a serial killer. They live in subdivisions, work regular jobs, they look like you and me and most often are so regular looking you would never dream they have this compulsion to kill.

One more little thing I noticed, the pushing of her into a rolling suitcase is so unusual IMO when you consider that she was fully dressed and even with her shoes on. It is almost like a specific quirk or MO for this perp, that after murdering her feels the need to leave her as he found her out of guilt or whatever reason it might be.

I don't mean this post to sound too harsh and hope it doesn't come across that way. It is the only way I know how to say it.

 

[Gaia713]

So are we dismissing that one guys claims that the luggage was going to be sold in a rummage sale at the church but it disappeared before that? I know he said it was reported, but I'm thinking with it being a church issue it was probably reported to the pastor or someone like that. Not the police so they wouldn't have a record of it.
Also it is common for members to get keys if they do a lot of work at the church. My mom's had keys to our church for over 20 yrs.

Another possible scenario is that the owenr of the suitcase said it was stolen to take the focus off him/her

 

[chicagofa13]

These seem not so much aliases as they do misspellings and typos. And I've had more residences than that.

ITA, they are variations on a theme. Possibly a lot of misspellings and use of middle initial and middle name.

I've lived a lot more places than that!

 

[bp531]

Here is some good info on how the pond system might work.


http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/ebae040_77.html

 

[Gaia713]

These seem not so much aliases as they do misspellings and typos. And I've had more residences than that.

I agree with your thoughts on the aliases. Unless he has a criminal past, they are technicalliy akas, not aliases. Aliases implies a criminal record.

 

[Groovytown]

http://www.kcba.com/Global/story.asp?S=10148146

Local Connection to Sandra Cantu (Salinas, CA)
"He says he is really upset they have been in the house three or four times and he says we're cooperating with them."

Pastor Harris says that his sister Connie has a heart condition and that the interrogation has been extremely hard on the couple.

The police came down ten o' clock last night got him out of bed took him down to the police station interrogated him until two o' clock this morning."

 

[chicagofa13]

...snip...
Pat Brown, whether posters like her or not, is an expert in serial killers - it is her field of expertise. And today the SK {who is possibly a SP as well} was her main point about this perp. Even Chicago stated as much in her post, as she took the time to rewatch the show and give much more info than I had gleaned.

...snip...

Thanks Scandi, I think it might have been new info, not a rerun, since it didn't sound the same as the first time I heard it. I respect Pat too, I just wish they would not always jump into things, like when Wendy Murphy makes every crime a sex crime (she has done this somewhat with Caylee).

I'm still not convinced we have a SK, though I'm open to it. Perhaps it is a FUTURE SK, the crime seems a little too disorganized for me at this point. If it's someone from the mhp my opinion is most likely a crime of opportunity and a one-time thing, although I fully expect the cops to check for other crimes once they have their perp in custody. JMHO!

 

[scandi]

I am too christine. This does not appear to be a well thought out crime even without the TH theory of "disorganized" killer.

IMHO it looks like a crime of opportunity vs. planning, a perp that was known to the vic vs. stranger coming into the community.

Everything that we have seen so far illustrates a crime that was commited at the spur of the moment, an opportunity presented itself to this man, he had coveted her and he seized the opportunity.

The exclusion to this would be the suitcase, that shows a bit of planning of sorts.

However, we don't know where that suitcase came from and how available it was to the perp. It could have just been there at his fingertips literally.

But when I look at the suitcase as a plan to dispose of her body, then the fact that a retention pond was selected shows a lack of planning as well.

LE hasn't said if she was sexually assaulted or not. I am willing to bet she was.

One scenario that I have turned over in my mind is that this was a crime of opportunity, the crime intended was sexual assault. The crime escalated and he killed her, and then disposed of her body in the quickest fashion possible without careful planning of the first crime through the other crimes he commited against her.

Just some thoughts I have been tossing around in my head today JMHO

Hi Kat, I think your points made add up to the MO of a serial killer. I do add as in the post above, that the disrespectful pushing by him to squeeze her into that suitcase as opposed as to the way he left her there fully dressed with her earings and shoes on, would be a specific MO for this killer.

I think finding the opportunity may well be often on his mind, so although it is not planned per se, it is always in the planning stages. He probably dreams about this part of the crime, finding and securing his victim.

Heck, if we knew the answers he'd already be in the hooskow by now, eh? xox

 

[wfgodot]

Hi Wfgodot, I guess I read that differently, as to me the word aberration means a 'State or condition markedly different from the norm' {Thesaurus}.

I would think having a suspect/s under surveillance would be the norm after 2 weeks into a case. I don't think it infers that there is NOT a serial killer around at all, in fact I'm thinking this could be a deviation from the norm in itself in the case of a missing child who has been found murdered.

Also, colloquially, I have often thought it meant something that is kind of mixed up and not how one would expect it to be. In this case there are many factors that are entering the case which may not be normal for the typical case where a child goes missing and is then found deceased.

Those other factors call in a whole different field of expertise possibly, and this might make the standard for solving the case more difficult.

The first thing that comes to mind is in the victim's home town there is a network of SP's who use the internet to sell *advertiser censored*, including that of adults having sex with children. I have read that here. It leaves the investigation to discover if this is why Sandra was taken, what with the searching of both church bldgs and many homes in the MHP. That would be determining if photos were taken of her.

The second is the manner in which she was taken and the quick turnaround of finding her body. They are typically the MO of both serial killers and Sexual Predators. It almost seems like the classic case to me even though many believe she knew this guy/s as he most likely lived in the MHP, LE putting all their focus in that area we have heard {except the disposal site}.

Pat Brown, whether posters like her or not, is an expert in serial killers - it is her field of expertise. And today the SK {who is possibly a SP as well} was her main point about this perp. Even Chicago stated as much in her post, as she took the time to rewatch the show and give much more info than I had gleaned.

I just don't think we can at this point rule out this perp is a serial killer. They live in subdivisions, work regular jobs, they look like you and me and most often are so regular looking you would never dream they have this compulsion to kill.

One more little thing I noticed, the pushing of her into a rolling suitcase is so unusual IMO when you consider that she was fully dressed and even with her shoes on. It is almost like a specific quirk or MO for this perp, that after murdering her feels the need to leave her as he found her out of guilt or whatever reason it might be.

I don't mean this post to sound too harsh and hope it doesn't come across that way. It is the only way I know how to say it.

That's okay! I'm not offended to be disagreed with. But I do think Sgt. Sheneman was signaling to Tracy parents that a serial killer was not on the prowl. He just couldn't say so directly as it would have prompted questions he couldn't answer, i.e., who's the main suspect. It was maybe subtle, but it was there.

 

[scandi]

http://www.kcba.com/Global/story.asp?S=10148146

Local Connection to Sandra Cantu (Salinas, CA)
"He says he is really upset they have been in the house three or four times and he says we're cooperating with them."

Pastor Harris says that his sister Connie has a heart condition and that the interrogation has been extremely hard on the couple.

The police came down ten o' clock last night got him out of bed took him down to the police station interrogated him until two o' clock this morning."

thanks Groovytown, That is very interesting as we have only heard of Connie referred to as his wife up to this point! WOW That puts a whole different tone on the pastor for me as to the possibilities . . . . . . . xox

 

[chicagofa13]

thanks Groovytown, That is very interesting as we have only heard of Connie referred to as his wife up to this point! WOW That puts a whole different tone on the pastor for me as to the possibilities . . . . . . . xox

What?? You lost me. Isn't Pastor Harris the one they are talking about, he's referring to his sister Connie (Pastor Lawless' wife)??

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Are we sure this is her? It says she grew up in ME and is a long way from home.

There's an MH on myspace from Manteca, CA however.

Did you guys see my post re: the SO with the same name as a James L in Manteca? I wonder if there is more to that than I thought?

No Msfittz, sorry I didn't. Thanks.

 

[passionflower]

thanks Groovytown, That is very interesting as we have only heard of Connie referred to as his wife up to this point! WOW That puts a whole different tone on the pastor for me as to the possibilities . . . . . . . xox

Please bring this over under the forum under LAWLESS, please so others can see it there.........

 

[ilovemew]

Another possible scenario is that the owenr of the suitcase said it was stolen to take the focus off him/her

You mean the man who gave the interview and said that? That Williams (I think) person who also said the pastor was a nice social guy?

 

[scandi]

That's okay! I'm not offended to be disagreed with. But I do think Sgt. Sheneman was signaling to Tracy parents that a serial killer was not on the prowl. He just couldn't say so directly as it would have prompted questions he couldn't answer, i.e., who's the main suspect. It was maybe subtle, but it was there.

LOL Yes, having different points of view thrown out always leads to great discussions, and hopefully finding the pieces of the puzzle so they fall into place neatly, eh?


Pat Brown pretty well covered that aspect today in her TH role.

She said in her opinion there should be no fear now that a serial killer is on the hunt in that area for little children. She said this perp is going to lay low now, hoping that LE have not found anything to link him to the crime. He will continue living as he did before, and when he feels the urge again and the opportunity presents itself and the time is right for him, then he will attack again.

He is evidently someone who was not suspected of being a killer before, most likely acc to Pat and the concentrated efforts of the LE in that MHP, to live there as well. Until he is named by LE and arrested he will seem like the same old 'Joe' to the residents.

These are not her exact words but my interpretation of what she said. I'll go see if she has anything up on her website about our case. xox


PS: I think the thought this could be a SK in the making is a very good one as Chicago suggests. And as to Sheneman's comments Wfgodot, I agree. He has to speak lightly and not say too much. I have heard him say 'know where your children are at all times, have them in groups', in so many words.

It may not be a serial killer or one in the making. We don't know yet. It could be though. Can you imagine if he said we might have a SK on the loose in Tracy, what utter horror that would create in the minds of the people!