CA CA - Sue Sharp, 36, & 3 children, Keddie Cabin Murders, Plumas, 11 April 1981

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by MeoW333, May 24, 2008.

  1. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    I'm also interested in this information- are you familiar with the Camp 18 site at all? Not very much is known about that area, so any extra info would be great.

    It is a known fact that Tina has been abused by an adult who was obsessed with her, and whom she had recently reported to police right before the murders. Whether or not that person did this crime, I don't know - I don't know much about that situation, yet. But it does add significantly to the list of possible perps, as well as reasons to be sad for this family.
     


  2. dmac

    dmac New Member

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    Camp Eighteen refers to an old mill town, similar to the old mill town of Feather Falls. Tina was not dropped into water and did not go over the actual waterfall (one of the tallest in America). Camp Eighteen is about five miles east of the falls, and her placement there had nothing to do with water.

    Oddly, Camp Eighteen is just over a mile out of Plumas County. The killers weren't too bright, imo, so I doubt they thought placing her in Butte County would confuse law enforcement via jurisdiction disputes.

    I've overlayed a google map with pertinent details relating to the Keddie crimes, including where Camp Eighteen is, found here:

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&msa=0&msid=116302378919428391128.0004929fb06cd2f91f7c1&z=10

    I've also put together several tools and graphics to help understand locations, proximity, and general understanding of the crime. That site can be found here:

    http://c28.5gigs.net/

    There's a lot of new info coming down the pike on this case. keddiemurdersfilm.com has released the new documentary, and it seems LE is now in a tizzy.
     
  3. missacorah

    missacorah New Member

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    There is speculation Tina could have been pregnant at the time of her abduction and maybe thats why she was taken - to hide/get rid of the evidence.
     
  4. dmac

    dmac New Member

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    There's a lot of speculation about a lot of things in this case which I believe to be timewasters. It's known that Tina had been molested by a man about a year prior to the murders and the case was being investigated at the time due to the involvement of the family of the other girl that had been molested (the main target).

    I have not seen all the allegations or sources of the pregnancy theories mentioned in PCSO case files. What is visible in the Part II documentary is clearly hearsay, and strange hearsay at that.

    The main focus of the attack still appears to be Sue. She is the one with the defensive wounds, she has more wounds than any of the victims, and she is the one excessivelly bound. All three were taped at the wrists and ankles, yet Dana's tape bindings had been broken. Sue was hogtied when found, yet she had blood on her feet and her bloody footprints were found in and beside pools of blood, even pools beyond the body of her son.

    The tools used to torture and kill the victims came from within the house of the victims. This was not a planned murder, it was a crime which escalated dramatically.

    I considered the pregnancy theory briefly some time ago, but I find it a folly as a thread of investigation at this stage. If Tina had been abused by one or more of the murderers prior to the crime, they sure made a mess of the coverup. If they even caught wind of the investigation into the prior molestation and were misguided enough to think the investigation was about them, they sure screwed up their solution.

    I see molestation as a possible PARTIAL motive to the crimes, but there are many other reasons why Tina may have been taken from the cabin. And, while motive is a huge part of understanding the crimes, I still see Sue as the genesis of the conflict that escalated into a quad homicide.

    When it comes to motive, the one I'm after is why FBI/DOJ retreated from the case so quickly, why Marty Smartt and John Boubede were given a free pass to Klamath Falls, and why PCSO invited in crackpots and witch doctors after releasing the two suspects they had enough on for a grand jury.

    The real solution to the Keddie Murders lies in why DOJ and PCSO intentionally did not solve this case.
     
  5. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    For being here, to give your insights based upon your knowledge of the case to help answer our speculative questions/theories. It does help if we do not have to spend time, speculating on motives or POI if its already been proven before hand to be non relevant in the case.

    I ask for your opinion now, with what you know about the case to answer a couple of speculative theories i have.

    #1 As far as Tina, its been my impression for awhile, that she was not taken from the cabin, but taken on her way back to the cabin.
    Is it possible, with what you know, that she was returning to the cabin and came upon the killers as they were leaving. And they took her with them.

    #2 What can you tell us, about the theory the persons whom gave them a ride, the hitch hikers back to the cabin being involved.
    I will tell you why i ask, and then you can correct me.
    I do think, though not for certain of course, that they did in fact hitchhike back to the cabin. 2 of them. And there had to be 2 at least in the vehicle, and perhaps 3. And may had invited them in, though unsure about that. I speculate on this, because what are the chances of picking someone up, and dropping them off somewhere, only to hear about the next day those same people you dropped off were murdered in a horrible way.

    And if that was I, i would have called after hearing of this, LE to let them know that the night before i dropped two persons off at that location that i picked up hitchhiking. As far as I know, no one ever called to say they in fact did pickup and drop off 2 persons at that location the night before. They could have went in at that time, or returned later. If they had planned on returning later, they may had brought things with them to use, but since it was items from inside, they had no plan to go there originally to murder the persons there, the persons they came upon anyways.

    Thank you again for being here, and i thank you in advance for your insight on my questions.
     
  6. dmac

    dmac New Member

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    There are two known time lines compiled by various elements of PCSO. One currently online at keddiemurdersfilm.com is the work of one former member of PCSO staff, and was found by the documentary crew in the boxes of various case files. The time line formerly online is currently being reworked from the ground up to include fragments previously undecipherable form old sources and newly leaked sources. This second time line is considered the "official" version, and to see it all you need to do is get into a spot of trouble in Plumas County: it decorates the walls of their polygraph room.

    I use the explanation of the time lines to preface this point: despite obvious incongruities and disparities on each time line, and the problems associated with combining the two, there are several points that do stand out within them that answer both questions you've posed.

    Several sources describe Tina's movements throughout the day, including her various visits to the cabin next door. All seem to agree that she left the neighbors' cabin during the evening while the Barbara Mandrell Show was on tv, and returned home to cabin 28, where she went to bed. She was seen coming home by others in 28. The confession by the killer, Marty Smartt, indicates also that she was in the cabin, and that he had incapacitated her so she couldn't get away. It is important to note that a bit of blood was found on the topsheet of Tina's bed, that phone wire was cut from the walls, and that no phone wire was used to bind the victims found in the cabin.

    The quick answer is that Tina woke up during the confrontation, walked in on the scene, was incapacitated by the killers, taken from the cabin, killed, and dumped at Camp Eighteen.

    Again, the time line indicates the boys were definitely seen hitching a ride from Quincy back to Keddie. PCSO maintain that they know who gave the boys a ride, but the time line only shows that the boys basically are unaccounted for after around 10 pm.

    Unfortunately, many people wish to take credit for dropping the boys off at Keddie (which is just over six miles from where they were hitching). LE knows it was not the many people who lied about it and were disproved, including Craig Walters. In fact, the time lines make clear that many of the people coming forward to the police with information were blatant liars. When you see the time lines side by side, you know for any of it to be true, much of it must be bull****.

    Although it would be very nice to know who gave the boys that last ride, it still appears whomever gave the ride had no involvement in the crimes. Evidently, the killers were living just a few yards away in cabin 26.

    The case still needs to be solved, even if PCSO doesn't want to do their job. There is likely at least a third person with blood on their hands, possibly more.

    PCSO and DOJ also need to be investigated as to why they derailed this case, sent the killers packing with a "get out of jail free" card, and done nothing but destroy evidence and cover their asses ever since? There was ample evidence to arrest Marty Smartt and John Boubede for the murders, as well as lesser crimes they were clearly guilty of at the beginning of this investigation.
    It seems the bigger question is WHO COVERED UP THE SOLUTION TO THESE MURDERS, AND WHY?

    PCSO and DOJ seem to have blood on their hands as well, as this is not simple ineptitude or bungling. This is a cover-up.
     
  7. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    What happened to Tina really chills me-I mean, was she decapitated?
     
  8. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    It seems her remains were scattered by animals, and nobody's been very forthcoming with details so it's hard to tell exactly what may have happened to her.

    We thought for a long time that only her skull was found, but recent documents show that parts of her spine and other bones were also discovered nearby at the Camp 18 site in Feather Falls, which is not actually a camp site and is an extremely remote area. One of the biggest questions is -- why there? There was a million places to hide a body between Feather Falls and Keddie. We think it was probably well known to one of the killers or accomplices.

    The autopsy report is very sketchy, as all they had to go on was her bones (and as I said they aren't great at details) so the fate of Tina really still is the biggest mystery of this crime.
     
  9. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    Yes, Tina's fate is very sad. The whole thing just senseless. And it is a shame that that cabins were demolished
     
  10. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    how many of Tina's siblings are still living?
     
  11. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    Sheila, Rick and Greg are all still alive. They were 14, 10 and 5 respectively in '81.

    Sheila just did this interview about the murders and her family on CBS13, which was very well done, I think:

    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/6418531-brutal-keddie-killings-still-haunt-woman/

    Pt 2 will be aired soon.

    One thing I noticed in this segment was how the reporter says people heard Sheila's scream the next morning. But nobody heard her mother, or sister, or the two older boys or the younger kids make a peep (except one report of some 'muffled screams' about 1.30 am that nobody else heard)?

    I ought to add that the cabin next door, where Sheila stayed that night, was only a few feet from cabin 28 - where the boy's bedroom window is you could almost touch both buildings if you stretched your arms between them, they were that close. The neighbours all around weren't far away at all. But only one person heard anything at all.

    My thought on that was that the killers must've gained control -very- quickly, of Sue and the kids.
     
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  12. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    Here's part 2 of the news special:

    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/04/paradise-lost-the-keddie-killings-part-ii/

    It ought to be noted that there was a couple errors in the text:

    - The therapist didn't change his mind.

    - The confession did not ever fall apart. There were two therapists seen by Marty Smartt, one of which never heard the confession, so that's what all went on there.

    Please offer your support to Sheila in the comments. She is a brave woman, and deserves it!
     
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  13. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    Is there anyone alive, do you think that could harm sheila and her siblings for putting the truth out there?
     
  14. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    Sheila has been actively seeking justice for her family for six years now - I think that if there was an actual threat it would've surfaced by now.

    The documentary maker who has been instrumental in getting the case looked at after decades of obscurity and helped Sheila to find her voice, Josh Hancock, has received some pretty scary threats over the years, both direct and veiled. Some of those were threats of legal action from members of Martin Smartt's family, some were death threats and the like.

    He's still alive and well, however.

    I have no doubt there's more than a few people who've been seriously rattled by this case not going away. But some of the truth is out there, and more is popping up all the time.

    There's a been a veil of fear and silence hanging over this case for 30 years, and this is one of the things that made me consider that there was actually something far deeper lurking behind the murders themselves. Which, turns out, there was.

    But that fear has been protecting people who ought to have been held accountable for the murders themselves, as well as the terrible negligence with which the case was handled. As well as those people still alive who know damn well what went on in cabin 28 and why, and have never done the right thing and come forward.

    Some folks who were justifiably scared for their own families are now coming forward with what information they can offer. I'm confident the whole truth will come out, sooner or later. We might not have the satisfaction of seeing the killers put in jail, but at least Sheila and her brothers will have the truth, and hopefully whatever justice is left to them.
     
  15. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    What do you mean there is something deeper lurking in this case? was it a drug deal gone bad, you think?
     
  16. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    (apologies in advance for the length of this post, there's just a LOT to cover)..

    I can only say for sure that nobody really knows the truth. But there's a lot of information available now, such as autopsy reports that state none of the victims had any kind of alcohol or drugs in their systems. John and Dana are said to have to smoked pot occasionally, and John drank (Dana might've but he wasn't supposed to, nor could he have drank much if he did - he was a severe diabetic). Sue Sharp used to drink, but at the time of the murders had quit entirely. There's strong indication that Sue was not involved with drugs at all, nor did she socialise with a lot of drug users.

    So, therefore I'm inclined to believe that IF drugs were the true motive, then it was because John and Dana had been blamed for stealing some, or had come to know too much about a serious drug trafficking ring in the area (ie, not a couple of college kids selling baggies of pot to the locals, more like heroin and cocaine trade).

    That's a big IF, though. The motive in this crime is not only hard to guess at but so covered by layers of BS and obfuscation that just thinking through it all is a total headache.


    For example, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that perhaps Boubede was afforded some kind of immunity from proper prosecution of several serious crimes in his past.

    And after the murders, Boubede carried on with various fake-advertising scams he'd been pulling for years across several states. He ripped members of the police force off for $125,000 in 1988, while posing as retired police chief 'Michael Desantis'. He was caught red-handed in an elaborate sting operation, was prosecuted under that bogus Desantis name (though the Chicago police fully knew who he was, due to his extensive record and the fact he'd used that name before) and never did any time for it, according to a member of his family.

    In another interesting twist, it was noted by police in Keddie, 1981, that his other fake ID used in these scams, "Bobby Lake", was a membership card for The National Police Officers Association of America, for which he claimed to work selling advertising. It was signed by one "Frank Schira".

    Boubede claimed the ID was the property of a former employee of the Association's magazine that had been handed to him, and he'd simply forgotten about it.

    Mind you, Boubede also told the CADOJ agents after the murders that he was a former policeman who'd been shot in the line of duty, and had been retired for many years, after serving 18 years on the force - in Chicago. Working on the dates he gave, we deduced that Boubede would have been 8 years old when he "joined the force", a simple and obvious bit of arithmetic that might have explained this blatant discrepancy to the two experienced agents who were probably around Boubede's own age...:waitasec:

    Now, it turns out that despite newspapers reporting that the Police Officer's Association mag that Boubede used as a front for his scams was a 'fictional' magazine, it really existed. And it was, indeed, run by a man named "Frank Schira".

    So, on discovering this, I assumed the real "Bobby Lake" had his ID card stolen. But then I looked a little deeper into Frank Schira and the Association. I found articles like this:

    From the Sarasota Journal, 1973

    And this report, in which one can see Schira covering his ass with both hands while ratting out his long-time business partner.

    So it turns out that this Police Association was a money-making racket run by a bunch of cops. And that Boubede was actually using a police-created scam to scam the police. :waitasec:

    We're yet to discover whether the "Bobby Lake" ID bearing Schira's signature ever really existed. Of course, the signature could also be a fake. There is, however, ample reason IMO to suspect that maybe there's a whole lot more going there than meets the eye.

    But wait, there's more!

    It's curious that Boubede was not in prison when he died of heart failure just ten months after being arrested for this $125,000 scam against police. It's also curious that this was not the only time he skated - in the late 50's/early 60's he was out of jail in record time more than once - for some pretty darned serious crimes.

    For example, despite an extensive prior record for robbery and known associations with organised crime, Boubede was a free man just two years after being arrested for an armed bank robbery in which a police officer was shot (by Boubede's uncle and lifelong partner in crime, who got 30 years for the robbery and shooting - but died "of fright" in the courtroom minutes after being sentenced:waitasec:).

    It goes on and on -- you can find out more at the Keddie forum site. The upshot is, some (including me) believe it was no coincidence that a DoJ agent experienced in organised crime was called in, did an astoundingly (and way beyond credibly) terrible job at interviewing Boubede and Smartt, let them both waltz out of town and never followed them up properly as major suspects.

    As far as I can see, there's a pile of reason right there to suspect that the Keddie investigation was deliberately fudged, due to Boubede's involvement.

    Martin Smartt confessed to his therapist that he murdered Sue and Tina because he believed Sue was trying to get Marilyn (his wife at the time) to seek a divorce. Tina was killed, he said, because she was a witness and had seen too much. Smartt does not elaborate on how Tina's body ended up at Camp 18. He stated that he did not kill John or Dana but doesn't say who did kill them, or why.

    This confession was reported to PCSO in 1981. And Martin Smartt was never brought back in for questioning. He remained a free man, unhampered by any awkward questions about his blatant lies, his confession and his fingerprints at the crime scene for the rest of his life.

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    However, all of this only offers possible explanation for a why a confessed murderer was never arrested. It does not discount the possibility that Martin Smartt and Severin John Boubede (both known users of "uppers" and other drugs) were somehow led to believe that John and Dana ripped some drugs off. Boubede certainly had sufficient criminal contacts to have organised a large drug deal. Maybe somebody messed that up, and blamed the boys (who Marty already hated "with a passion", according to his ex-wife).

    In fact, Marty's ex-wife was the one person to openly benefit from the whole situation. She got rid of Marty -- who was abusive (he once pulled a gun on her and her kids, for example) and was known to stalk her and threaten her with death whenever she got the gumption to leave him (before taking him back..). Marilyn ended up in a live-in relationship with one of Marty's real good friends shortly after the murders. This would have been difficult, if not impossible, to achieve had Marty not been forced to skedaddle out of town on suspicion of a quad murder.

    "Coincidentally" Smartt was heard by a police officer some time after the murders, screaming at this former good friend in jail cell in Quincy (from which both were soon released, presumably both being there for minor things) - "Tell them where the dope is, Meeks!" - among various threats of dire bodily harm.

    I've been making posts regarding my thoughts on all that on the other forum, and won't reiterate them here.

    But yes, perhaps a 'drug deal gone wrong' was what set the rampage off - though I doubt anyone at cabin 28 had any hand in it. At this point, we just don't know for sure what the motive is and there's several good possibilities, but to me that one seems not at all unlikely.
     
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  17. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    Marty and Bo are dead-were they the main suspects?
     
  18. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Active Member

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    Ausgirl, thank you! I don't know if I stated how I first became interested in this case, but a few years ago, I worked for a show that was about haunted places. I found an article about the murders and immediately became intrigued. As part of my job, I was to research haunted places and try and package them to the producers to see if it was filmable. As there was no concrete proof of haunting, it was a no go, but the story never left me.
     
  19. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    What a fascinating job, scriptgirl! I've worked in a related field, regarding haunted places. There's plenty of interesting (and very definitely haunted) places in Australia.

    I read posts on a blog from an occupant who lived in cabin 28 after the murders, in which they say their family had a lovely time in Keddie and nothing odd ever happened, while another claims her kids had night terrors and there was a 'creepy' feeling in some areas of the house. I am sorry the cabin was torn down, in a way, as it hampers research into the houses' dimensions etc., but also feel it's probably a good thing.

    The Sharp family and Dana Wingate are not forgotten, in any case.
     
  20. CanManEh

    CanManEh New Member

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    This case really is one of the more fascinating cases . I can not imagine being the one to open the cabin door and see all of that and know you could have been there for me i don't know if i would ever sleep propper again in my life I don't think i could even handle something like that what an amazing woman she is to keep her life together after something like that . My only thought about motive is a sexuall one they or he or she whoever did this took the oldest girl for that reason .It made no sence when the guy in black said he asked marty why did he kill the girl and he said because she saw everything that doesn't mean you have to kidnap her the perp/perps could have done to her right there and then what they had done to the rest of the familly if it was just to keep her quiet because she witnessed it so i think they or he took her for a sexuall reason ...
     

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