CA - Use of deadly force by police disappears on Richmond streets

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Tawny, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    (Not sure this is the correct forum for this! my apologies if I put it in the wrong spot)

    http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...y-force-by-police-disappears-richmond-streets

    "Many observers and police officials attribute Richmond's relatively low rate of deadly force to reforms initiated under Chief Chris Magnus, who took over a troubled department in this city of 106,000 in 2006. Magnus implemented a variety of programs to reduce the use of lethal force, including special training courses, improved staffing deployments to crisis situations, thorough reviews of all uses of force and equipping officers with nonlethal weapons such as Tasers and pepper spray."
     
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  3. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I love this practice:

    ""We use a case study approach to different incidents that happen in different places. When there is a questionable use-of-force incident somewhere else, we study it and have a lot of dialogue," Magnus said. "It's a model that is used in a range of other professions, but in some police circles, it's seen as judging in hindsight and frowned on. In my mind, that attitude is counterproductive.""

    I think it's SUPER important to use past situations to improve your own reaction instincts.
     
  4. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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  5. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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  6. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    No. But I don't see this community policing as necessarily the antidote to community violence. And that article was not only about deadly force. They talked about not using stop and frisk, and proactive, forceful interventions,etc. And I think stopping those kinds of things may be responsible for the increased killings.
     
  7. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    At least these officers won't have their integrity and character questioned. All lives actually do seem to matter to these guys, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a good thing.

    This area is a volatile area of California. The homicide rate fluctuates, but even with this recent spike, it's down 75% over the last few years. Could be their efforts prove to be fruitful in a few years when the community trusts police again. JMO!

    This article has a chart that shows lots of spikes and valleys. Gotta look at the WHOLE picture :)

    http://www.contracostatimes.com/wes...eports-lowest-homicide-total-33-years-credits
     
  8. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Also, it sounded to me, from that article, that the cops were under a lot of pressure to NEVER use any lethal force. The higher ups were bragging about not ever doing so and saying their trained no to use it.

    That is the prevailing attitude in many precincts now because of the public scrutiny, some deserved and some not.

    I know what the cops that I am close to have said about it. And it is not a good thing, imo. They do not like to put themselves in dangerous situations in which they might need to pull their guns anymore. There is no upside for them to do so. They may not be supported by their command if they decide to do so. They may lose their job and their pensions and their reputation if they have to use their weapon. So if they see 4 teens driving around at 3 am, do they want to stop them? They used to 100% stop them and see what they were up to. But now they would possibly face criticism, for profiling, for stopping without cause, and worse, they may have a confrontation with another weapon. And that is a lose/lose for cops these days.

    Even if they get dispatched to a call about a mentally ill person brandishing a gun or a knife, if it goes sideways, their own career and freedom is at risk. So when there is a lot of pressure not to use any force, then cops are going to try and avoid situations where it might be needed. If they see a strange car in a parking lot at 2 am, they might just drive on by because it is 'politically' dangerous for them to enter into a confrontation these days.
     
  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    The homicide rate has nothing to do with trusting or not trusting the police. The homicide rate is not from cops killing gang members. It is from gangs killing each other and innocent bystanders and robbery victims.
     
  10. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    Did you look at the numbers of any other year than this one? Did you see the constant state of flux that city is in, but also notice the steady decline?
     
  11. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    All of the nation has had a steady decline, no?

    Also, I thought the changes towards community policing began in 2013.
     
  12. EllieBee

    EllieBee Former Member

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    I really love to see GOOD NEWS stories!

    It is a nice break!
     
  13. EllieBee

    EllieBee Former Member

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    Chief Magnus rocks! We need more like him!!!!


     
  14. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Here is his resignation letter:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/294522414/Responding-to-Violence-in-Richmond-010316R#scribd

    January 3, 2016

    Dear Mayor, City Council Members, and City Manager,

    I have received a number of inquiries about why homicides and shootings have increased over the past year and the question that is also almost always asked is,
    “Does the Police Department have a plan?”
    Although my days remaining as Richmond’s Police Chief are few, I’ll do my best to answer both these questions . . . and then I have a question for you….
     
  15. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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    Damn. That sucks. :(
     
  16. EllieBee

    EllieBee Former Member

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    Well so much for being happy. Back to more misery. Thanks!!!!

     
  17. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    Chief Chris Magnus has shown what a difference a leader with the right frame work can make when it comes to police and the community they serve - stunning results. So glad he managed to prove this before retiring - imo this legacy will be a model to look back on whether or not it is followed by any other police department.

    Find it equally stunning that anyone can equate LE conduct and homicide rates in any city - imo, the two have nothing to do with each other. No claim, stance or argument could ever change my mind.

    Who calls LE and advises, ahead of time -

    - I'm dissatisfied with my spouse and plan to kill them as soon as I take out a large life insurance policy on them

    - I lost custody of my kids to the other parent, therefore I plan to do them in - maybe the kids as well

    - I'm having trouble with rival gang members so need to knock a few of them off in the near future

    - or any other reason for committing murder known to mankind

    Preventing people from killing one another will never happen imo since the reasons for doing it in the first place are so varied - a civilized society can only react and manage the deed after it's been carried out. The court system has eroded and is not a deterrent these days - but that's another topic.

    If one wants to blame LE for a rise in homicide rates, then shouldn't fraud, assault etc be thrown in as well? By the same token, cannot buy into policing and policing alone is responsible for any drop in homicides or any other crime. People work together or they don't.

    All jmo.
     
  18. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I couldn't really compile my thoughts in an adequate post, but yours covers it pretty well!

    We should be commending these officers, instead we're talking about homicide rates that are shown clearly to be dropping steadily over time, with fluctuation in between.
     
  19. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I am not sure how one can say that LEO conduct has nothing to do with the homicide rate. Why do you think cops try to be proactive in getting guns off the streets? Why do they do traffic stops and search cars whenever they suspect there are guns or weapons inside? Why do they frisk people who are out and about at 3 am, with no good reason? They do all of that to get guns out of the hands of robbers and car jackers. And doing so cuts the crime rate down, somewhat. When they stop being aggressive, the crime rates rise. As we have seen recently in various large cities which have been heavily protested.

    And I am not sure what was so stunning. He had one 'good year', in which the homicide rate decreased. But in the article linked in the OP, it does say that the amount of shootings that year were the same as always, but fewer people died of their injuries. So I don't see what others seem to be seeing in his leadership.

    He worked hard to befriend the locals and nothing changed in terms of illegal behavior in the neighborhoods. I call that a failure, not a success.
     
  20. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    Agree Tawny - see this thread as a way to commend the officers of Richmond, CA and their leadership since 2007/2008 - homicide fluctuation rates in Richmond or anywhere else is a different topic/thread.

    Apples and oranges imo.
     
  21. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    If they have no warrant, they shouldn't be doing any of that, IMO.

    I frequently take drives in the middle of the night when I need some solace and quiet time. Should I be searched for weapons?

    This isn't Minority Report. You can't harass and arrest people for something they *might* do.
     

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