Cadaver dogs have hit on dumpster near home

[winterrose]

I think they were playing it.They said that dumpster had been checked,obviously the searchers would have checked something that close.LE said last night to the news,they had checked,but had not taken everything out,because dogs weren't hitting on it.

 

[winterrose]

Maybe what the cadaver dogs owners are saying when they say dogs will hit on dried blood,is because they are trained w/scent blocks to hit on dried blood for decomp.Maybe this is where the back and forth with some cadaver dog owners and some are saying it will hit and some saying not.I don't know,just wondering why the experts are saying two different things.So it will hit on dried blood,but react for decomp,if there's decomp in what has the dried blood,makes sense to me.IMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Here's the link to video about Crystal being taken to the abandoned house (I think the date was 2/22 or 2/23) Hope this link works:

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/publish/video/845635/haleigh_s_family_speaks

Thanks, Indigo!! :blowkiss:

 

[Kat]

Who is this group? We need to sleuth out their credintials stat.

Been searching, haven't found anything yet.

 

[LFlorida]

just FYI, Palatka Daily news says:

The trash bin examined Thursday had been checked before by bloodhounds and other searchers with no reaction, Bowling said.

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/02/27/news/news01.txt

 

[SuziQ]

LE needs to clarify what type of dogs hit yesterday. The above search team has all types of dogs.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

bold by me

Isn't this a contradiction in terms?

Yes. It is. :bang:

 

[LFlorida]

Been searching, haven't found anything yet.

Seems like I recall it was an amateur/volunteer group from Georgia.
?

 

[Kat]

http://www.fox30online.com/content/topstories/story/Cadaver-Dogs-Search-For-Haleigh-Cummings/Rm7jB35cEkKoHQPaTR_4ug.cspx

All I could find so far, will keep looking~ snipped from article:

"The searchers are from “Canine South”, a group made up of volunteers who train and own their own cadaver dogs. They are comprised of dog owners from south Georgia and all over the state of Florida.

One of those men is a Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office patrol Sergeant. His name is Brian Selzer and said his hope is that his dog Eli doesn’t find anything.

 

[concentric]

LE said that the 3 dogs hit at the same area ON the dumpster, instead of IN. Does that mean they hit on the outer side?

 

[dunlurken]

I heard more dogs would be searching today. Cadaver dogs or scent dogs?

Boy, last night was horrible. I thought they had found her. Didn't sleep good at all.

 

[kmh]

just FYI, Palatka Daily news says:

The trash bin examined Thursday had been checked before by bloodhounds and other searchers with no reaction, Bowling said.

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/02/27/news/news01.txt

I just keep thinking that because of the close proximity, this dumpster should have been emptied and examined thoroughly from very early on (regardless of whether or not the dogs responded -- there could have been other relevant clues besides Haleigh's scent and/or decomposition).

 

[SeriouslySearching]

All I can say is that I hope they find something today to indicate what happened to Haleigh. This has gone on long enough and if yesterday's fiasco was indicative of the work LE is doing then the case is headed to the same dumpster where they found nothing.

 

[SuziQ]

Seems like I recall it was an amateur/volunteer group from Georgia.
?

Interesting. Because the group "Dogs South" that I linked on the last page is from Georgia.

I know some handlers do train for cadaver and blood. But that practice is frowned upon because how do you tell what the heck your dog hit on? It defeats the purpose of having a cadaver dog.

 

[dunlurken]

http://www.fox30online.com/content/...-Haleigh-Cummings/Rm7jB35cEkKoHQPaTR_4ug.cspx

All I could find so far, will keep looking~ snipped from article:

"The searchers are from “Canine South”, a group made up of volunteers who train and own their own cadaver dogs. They are comprised of dog owners from south Georgia and all over the state of Florida.

One of those men is a Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office patrol Sergeant. His name is Brian Selzer and said his hope is that his dog Eli doesn’t find anything.

Well, that's the craziest thing I ever saw. Are these cadaver dogs or scent dogs? Geez!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

LE said that the 3 dogs hit at the same area ON the dumpster, instead of IN. Does that mean they hit on the outer side?

They must have since they didn't put them inside.

 

[impatientredhead]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4623888/Cadaver-Dog-Handbook-Forensic-Training-Tactics

Chapter two covers most of what is being is being questioned here. They hit on the scent of dead human remains, period. The dog is only as good as his human's ability to read his signals and follow proper training. But they hit on a scent released by dead human remains which is the same signature for all dead people, versus live tracking dogs that are looking for a specific persons scent. The chapter I linked discusses briefly the belief that where live tracking dogs seem to lose the trail they are tracking can actually be an adversion response to the smell of death.

Putriscene and Cadavarine are produced by all animals as they decompose, so while that is a portion of what the human scent contains it is not accurate that that is what they are hitting on. It is used as the basis for synthetic training scent, but most trainers don't use the synthetic scent. Until very recently we really didn't know what the dogs were isolating on that indicates a human body versus say a deer, but we have now identified 300 chemicals that are released from a decomposing body. The body farm tests for approximately 30 of them in their decomp testing.

 

[scandi]

Cadaver dogs check for decomp, dried blood, etc. Could have been anyone's band aid which would turn up as decomp. And dead bodies do bleed. Just look at Lana Clarkson. Shot in the mouth, dead as a doornail (may she RIP). Blood ran out all over the place.

I hold little faith in cadaver dogs under certain situations.

Hi Dunlurkin, From what I read here late last night, blood does not decompose but starts breaking down immediately upon death. The poster {name? ;} said blood is mainly red blood cells and water, and as this breaks down it joins with the body fluids that escape from the tissue cells that burst in the decomposition process.

That would lead me to believe the blood one sees pooling around a dead body would be there from the pull of gravity and not pumped out as it would be on a bandaid. All that blood would not have a chance to start breaking down in the body before it leaked out. As such, wouldn't that be classified as 'live' blood?

Also, it takes between 1 1/2 to 2 hours before the death scent has been established to where a cadaver/human remains recovery dog can sniff it.

That is my stab at it. I hope the poster from last night who seemed an expert on the subject will post here again today. ;}

 

[lakelandladi]

If that indeed is the group that was there they have dogs that do a variety of different searches so they may not have even been cadaver dogs that hit on the dumpster. I thought all the dogs were cadaver dogs from the way media was reporting it.

 

[concentric]

Like I said, they said the dogs hit ON the same side of the dumpster. Could this mean that the perp. laid her deceased body against the side of that dumpster and decided against hiding her body in it?

a) Too heavy to lift over side
b) Too risky

wonder?

Perhaps they will come up with items of DNA interest, such as skin cells, hair, etc.