Can someone answer one question for me....

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by edpower, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    i dont think the strangulation was staged. i believe she was already strangled when she was found by her parents..
     
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  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Because children who have accidents are not subject to accompanying sexual assault.

    Coroner Meyer concludes in his autopsy that JonBenet was ligature asphyxiated. A contributing factor was the head injury which reduced oxygen levels, likely leaving JonBenet in a coma?

    Depending on what you think about the evidence regarding JonBenet being sexually assaulted. It looks as if JonBenet was sexually assaulted then whacked on the head?

    The rest being staging?

    From memory the wrist restraints are loose and are on top of her Gap Top, so these look like staging, might be a JR last minute staging effect?

    .
     
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  3. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but which assault do you mean, specifically? The prolonged (i.e. months, years) abuse, or the abuse that occurred that night (i.e. "birefringent material")? Because then that opens up another can of worms: whether that injury was staging or not.
     
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  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,
    Patently I'm referring to the acute sexual assault . Any prior sexual assault may or may not be linked to the acute assault.

    Here is Kolar's take on this aspect of the case:

    Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt
    The "birefringent material")? is cellulose, Steve Thomas in his book refers to it as a splinter

    Pefect Murder Perfect Town - Part Three: Stories within Stories, Chapter Six
    That JonBenet's cited internal injury is linked to the broken paintbrush does not preclude this injury as an attempt to obscure or stage away an acute sexual assault, perpetrated by another individual.

    Less probable but not impossible is that there was an acute sexual assault followed by another post-mortem assault/ritual using the paintbrush or any other item yielding birefringent material or cellulose.

    The bottom line is that there was an acute sexual assault, whether this was attempted staging or both is an open question.

    But the takeaway is why bother with a staged sexual assault then wipe JonBenet down and hide it beneath layers of clothing?

    Even the parents would be aware Intruders do not normally wipe down and redress their victims?

    So it looks to me as if the acute sexual assault came first, unless JonBenet's assailant was employing the Ted Bundy tactic of disabling his victim with a first strike hit, usually a head blow?

    Either way you still have a sexual assault, and it was this that was being staged away by the parents. As any head blow was invisible to the naked eye, and was only revealed at the autopsy.

    .
     
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  5. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Steve Thomas along with James Kolar (originally) think that John slept through the night. Patsy struck JonBenet in anger, the theory goes, so she then has two problems: her sleeping husband and law enforcement.

    Staging the crime scene to make it look like John did it would be a natural way to save her own skin, but she would need to be somewhat subtle with it. It would have to be a slow reveal.
     
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  6. Loulani

    Loulani New Member

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    I agree with David Rogers here. She was hit in the head and then dragged into hiding. I think she stole some pineapple, got hit with the flashlight by Burke as punishment for her "crime" and then he dragged her body into hiding to hide from his parents what he did. The latter caused her death. I dunno if Burke knew fully well what he is doing and what the consequences are (that she's strangled to death while he dragged her with that handle he built), but I have no other explanation to what happened and why the cover-up happened. Because yes, if it was an accident, a real accident, then i think they would have called an ambulance. Except when they found her dead already.
     
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  7. Loulani

    Loulani New Member

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    I think so too. I also think that she was molested by her brother.
     
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  8. Loulani

    Loulani New Member

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    Not if you are an almost 10 year old that learned specific ways during his boy scouting on how to drag heavy objects.
     
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  9. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the Boy Scouts teaches kids how to drag their fellow humans by the neck. The ligature furrow was horizontal. If the body had been dragged by the neck, the cord would've come up around the upper neck, below the jaw.
     
  10. David Rogers

    David Rogers Well-Known Member

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    No, but they do teach you how to drag firewood with a rope.
     
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  11. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    imo, i am not convinced the pineapple incident triggered the headblow. to me, it was only part of the sequence of events leading to her death. there is more in the items found near the body that the police should look into...
     
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  12. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    if she was dragged by the cord in her neck, the neck bone should be broken but the autopsy told otherwise.
     
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  13. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    I don't believe there's evidence that JBR was "dragged" down the stairs (that would leave pretty obvious forensic evidence).

    The blow to the head was fatal. That's the listed cause of death, with a secondary contributing factor (strangulation). She would have died from the head blow (the object used has never been found or determined; maglite flashlight, toilet bowl edge, golf club were all theorized by various parties in the months after JBR's death).

    If JBR had died from a blow to her head and was found in the same room as that blow occurred, with no staging, then it would have looked even more like one of the family members did it. There would have been less confusion. JBR would have had to die in either her own room, or in some other room in the house (such as the kitchen, where it is clear that she was eating pineapple - despite Patsy not remembering this snack). If she was struck when already in the basement and there's no sign of forced entry (and there isn't), then...how could that come about? Sounds like a deranged punishment or abuse scenario. If she was struck on the head while in or near her own room (for which there is no evidence except that the comforter and sham that were on her bed were also moved to the basement), that's very likely a parent/punishment scenario.

    Burke's fingerprints are also on the pineapple bowl. So, if she was struck in the kitchen, perhaps it was not one of her parents. When friends arrive, they clean the kitchen.

    Patsy's mtDNA (which is also the mtDNA of Burke) is found on two components of the garotte. The suitcase with the comforter in it was usually stored in a second floor bedroom (guest bedroom belonging to John Andrew). Someone found that suitcase and took it downstairs (before or after putting the bedding inside). To my knowledge, no stranger DNA was ever found on the bedding (but of course, various Ramsey DNA would be explainable as non-nefarious if any evidence could be found that the stranger was the suitcase user).

    The medical examiner's report seems to me to indicate some form of chronic sexual abuse.

    So...it's an unsolved case. Evidence was mishandled and even destroyed in the early hours. The Ramseys would go on to point a finger of blame at many people, including their good friends (the Whites). For whatever reason, the two adults would hire separate attorneys. They hired others to try and aid in their own defense (they were indicted by Grand Jury in 1999 and successfully and politically got that quashed in an unusual legal move), but they did not hire well known PI's who specialize in stranger abduction. Since everyone apparently believed that whoever the perp was, that perp had pretty good knowledge of the layout of the Ramsey home and that the perp was in the house for a very long time (compared to other crimes of this type), the stranger was assumed to be someone local or with some kind of access to the home.

    The perp must also have had overheard or otherwise had knowledge of John Ramsey's 2018 Christmas bonus...a venn diagram will show why the Ramseys fall under suspicion each time a new person looks at the case. Doesn't mean they did it but it does keep them on the list of suspects.
     
  14. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    She wasn't found "by her parents." She was found by one parent (John) and his friend.
     
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  15. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    i believe I was stating my theory early hours before the 911 call.
     
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  16. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    sorry but the dna report told otherwise.
     

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  17. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    i believe the bedding was never tested for dna so logically noone would ever know
     
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  18. David Rogers

    David Rogers Well-Known Member

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    You can’t say this without some tests. You have no idea what she might have been laying on when she was dragged or what she was wearing or what the floor covering was that could have slid with little effort. There are too many unknowns to make a statement like that.
     
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  19. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    test can be useless if it cant be supported by the body evidence from the autopsy.. you have also no idea if she was really dragged or not... i believe the evidence should be the one that is telling you the story, not the other way around.
     
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  20. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Free Thinker

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    IMO, You should go where the evidence takes you and not develop a theory and then try to develop the evidence to point back at that theory.

    just sayin'
     
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