Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

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otto

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How should the floor plan be changed ... someone from 1955 might remember.
People that are not interested in the first crime scene can abstain from comment.
 

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otto

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Does the extension that was put on the back of the original construction have a patio door into the back yard as well as a side door leading to the parking pad?

The garage can be at grade, but not living space behind the garage. Did Alvin extend the 1.2M, four feet, footings for the backyard extension or did he pour a slab, add a patio door and hope for the best? Is there a patio door between the side door level and the back yard?

I suspect that the plan for the property is to demolish, split the lot, build two 1600 square foot homes and sell them for $703,000 each ... people will think they're getting a steal in Parkhill, but the Liknes couple seems to have sold their property at dirt market value ... even though he was sitting on prime real estate. It's true that the market is slow on Dec 5, 2013, so why would his wife, a former realtor, recommend selling when the market is low ... slow, depressed ... not full market value that can be easily achieved between April and July in Calgary every year.
 

otto

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Hmmmm so what do you think cops found at the Airdrie crime scene that would convince them to stop searching for the bodies?

I'm thinking that they found bone fragments.
 

Linike

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Two counts of first degree because he planned those two murders and they have evidence of such. Nathan was not planned and thus the charge for his murder. I believe all three were murdered that night. Until forensic evidence was completed that could not be determined thus the Amber Alert. :(
 
D

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Given the absence of searches, I'm inclined to believe that the remains have been found.

"Defence counsel Kim Ross waived formal reading of the charges and asked that the case be adjourned to Aug, 14 as he awaits disclosure of the police investigation."
Link

Will the date for a preliminary hearing be set at the hearing on August 14?
The next request will be for a media ban ... for the preliminary hearing. That is the crown's chance to point out that there is no question that the accused is guilty.

I did not realize that LE have stopped searching for the bodies. Why would LE say in the last briefing they had the 30 day plan and would continue searching? I hope they have conclusive evidence that the victims are accounted for for the families sake.
 
D

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I'm thinking that they found bone fragments.
How sad but glad if this is correct that there was something left to confirm dna. But the family said that unless the bodies were found they would not believe it true. Was there not enough evidence to determine this for the family?
 
D

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Does the extension that was put on the back of the original construction have a patio door into the back yard as well as a side door leading to the parking pad?

The garage can be at grade, but not living space behind the garage. Did Alvin extend the 1.2M, four feet, footings for the backyard extension or did he pour a slab, add a patio door and hope for the best? Is there a patio door between the side door level and the back yard?

I suspect that the plan for the property is to demolish, split the lot, build two 1600 square foot homes and sell them for $703,000 each ... people will think they're getting a steal in Parkhill, but the Liknes couple seems to have sold their property at dirt market value ... even though he was sitting on prime real estate. It's true that the market is slow on Dec 5, 2013, so why would his wife, a former realtor, recommend selling when the market is low ... slow, depressed ... not full market value that can be easily achieved between April and July in Calgary every year.
With all due respect to the deceased, I think it all comes back to the money.
 

Power of Two

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I think the next big issue is going to be paying for a high priced lawyer. Being released on a $750 bond does suggests he is a man of limited means at this time. Kim Ross won't be working for legal aid rates. He will, most likely, make application to the Supreme Court of Alberta seeking to have his fees paid by the generous people of Alberta. We in BC paid for Willy Picton's defense even though he and his brother owned a very large asset. For some reason the farm did not have to be sold to pay his legal bills. Also, the kind and generous citizens of BC paid for the defense of the alleged Air India bombers, for more than one trial as I recall.


Ugh. Thanks a bunch for that reminder, Cattools. That was a bitter pill to swallow. Those trials went on for far too long!
 
D

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Up thread I believe it was otto saying that a media ban will be forthcoming. Is it only me but I think there is already an informal media ban as very little to nothing has been produced in MSM since suspects arrest.
 

Sillybilly

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Up thread I believe it was otto saying that a media ban will be forthcoming. Is it only me but I think there is already an informal media ban as very little to nothing has been produced in MSM since suspects arrest.

Generally the media is the agency fighting tooth and nail against a publication ban, so if there is an "informal media ban" happening right now, it's possible that LE has requested the co-operation of the media wrt ongoing search areas.

The defence will most likely ask for, and be granted, a PB up until the point of trial. The Canadian Bar Association "test for publication ban" is:

from:
http://www.cba.org/CBA/sections_criminal/pdf/2013-06-publication_bans.pdf

Is the ban necessary to prevent a real and substantial risk to the fairness of the trial; and will reasonable alternative measures prevent the risk?

and

Do the salutary (beneficial) effects of the publication ban outweigh the deleterious effects to the free expression of those affected by the ban?

(LOL ... gotta luv lawyers. Why use the word "salutary" and then explain it in brackets when all they had to do was use the bracketed word in the first place?) :biggrin:
 

YYC Lady

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Personally, I'm skeptical they have found the bodies and haven't disclosed it. Given the OB's have such a strong faith, they will be eager to properly lay their loved ones to rest and I doubt LE would deny them that right indefinitely. Given that there are already so many rumours floating around town, I doubt that any service/memorial/ceremony could be kept quiet/secret. (MOO, even if they were asked to forego "regular" processes such as an obituary, public announcement, etc, that they would feel compelled to do a prayer service at minimum)
On another note, also MOO, LE must have something in their cache of evidence that leads them to believe there are bodies and that they have a good chance of recovering them.
 

Slebby

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Personally, I'm skeptical they have found the bodies and haven't disclosed it. Given the OB's have such a strong faith, they will be eager to properly lay their loved ones to rest and I doubt LE would deny them that right indefinitely. Given that there are already so many rumours floating around town, I doubt that any service/memorial/ceremony could be kept quiet/secret. (MOO, even if they were asked to forego "regular" processes such as an obituary, public announcement, etc, that they would feel compelled to do a prayer service at minimum)
On another note, also MOO, LE must have something in their cache of evidence that leads them to believe there are bodies and that they have a good chance of recovering them.
I agree. I'm also not sure what would be gained by withholding the information that the victims' remains have been recovered.

IMO, and as others have stated here, I believe the volume of blood at the Liknes home was enough to believe the victims to be deceased, and that LE waited for DNA testing to reveal if the blood was from 1, 2 or 3 victims. At that point, they lifted the Amber alert as it was clear NO was also dead. Sometimes the amount of blood can lead only to the conclusion that death has occurred - I think the phrase used is to say the injuries to cause that amount of blood loss would be "incompatible with life". IMHO
 

Slebby

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I live in Calgary as well. I do a lot of driving, both in the city and on the surrounding highways. I personally feel very discouraged about the possibility of recovering the victims' remains. There are so many areas within short distance of the city that the killer could have dumped or buried bodies. Wherever I go, I find myself looking out at open fields, ponds, ditches, etc., and thinking "they could be right there and who would know?"

The alleged killer, DG, is an unemployed, unattached loner. No one was with him in the days after the disappearance of the victims. He could have gone anywhere, anytime. He could have driven to BC and back and not been missed. Even if he didn't travel that far, I don't see it as all that difficult for a determined man to drive anywhere north, south, east or west, and dump or bury bodies.

I also note that LE does not appear to be conducting searches, nor giving their blessing to civilian search groups to conduct searches. I find this telling.

It is incredibly disheartening to consider, but i personally feel doubtful of bodies being found.
 

Touchtherapy

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Hi all... I never made it out to the road block in Airdrie as I came down with terrible stomach flu. OTTO...I dont know how to draw an arrow on the photo you asked me to but from the news article I belive we were talking about the old ford dealership which on your photo is straight to the right of the road block. I have not read through all the posts as I have been MIA for a few days but I am not sure why or how the gas op ties in. Ill go today and see if I cant get anything better. Let me know what you want or need
 

The Analyst

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I agree. I'm also not sure what would be gained by withholding the information that the victims' remains have been recovered.

IMO, and as others have stated here, I believe the volume of blood at the Liknes home was enough to believe the victims to be deceased, and that LE waited for DNA testing to reveal if the blood was from 1, 2 or 3 victims. At that point, they lifted the Amber alert as it was clear NO was also dead. Sometimes the amount of blood can lead only to the conclusion that death has occurred - I think the phrase used is to say the injuries to cause that amount of blood loss would be "incompatible with life". IMHO

I'm probably thinking too far outside the box, but does anyone know anything about blood doping that athletes used to practice? Would LE be able to distinguish fresh blood from blood that had been refrigerated? Just thinking that might be one way to discover a large amount of blood even though the donor would be very much alive.
 

winnnancy

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Generally the media is the agency fighting tooth and nail against a publication ban, so if there is an "informal media ban" happening right now, it's possible that LE has requested the co-operation of the media wrt ongoing search areas.

The defence will most likely ask for, and be granted, a PB up until the point of trial. The Canadian Bar Association "test for publication ban" is:

from:
http://www.cba.org/CBA/sections_criminal/pdf/2013-06-publication_bans.pdf


(LOL ... gotta luv lawyers. Why use the word "salutary" and then explain it in brackets when all they had to do was use the bracketed word in the first place?) :biggrin:

It was 8 months from apprehension to sentencing for Russell Williams .
I can't remember the details of the publication ban? I do know there were details that became public knowledge.
 
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