Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

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AL's company went bankrupt 3 weeks before he went missing. I'm not sure if this was posted yet, trying to get caught up.

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/10...any-went-bankrupt-weeks-before-disappearance/

It had its equipment seized and owed $800,000 to in property taxes to the county.

That puts into perspective the sale of the house in Dec, but leasing until now ... most likely in anticipation of protecting assets during bankruptcy. I couldn't understand why the house was sold at a time when sales are low when they had no plans to move until sales are high.
 
I know we've brought up the potential for domestic violence several times, and normally it would be the first thought that crosses your mind if a couple is involved, but LE has seemed adamant since the beginning that these are three victims. It just doesn't add up given that none of their vehicles are gone either. LE must know something more substantial to indicate that they didn't leave of their own free will and that none of them caused the violence in the home (can they know that??)... I'm now thinking that it MUST be AL's blood as otherwise wouldn't they suspect him more closely and consider a domestic situation? Or worse, it's all three of their blood. If there was enough blood to indicate they were all killed though wouldn't they have called off the Amber Alert or is that tipping their hand somehow?

I am out of theories... I just know this is some really crazy situation, and from the latest presser it seems like LE is well-intentioned in investigating DG, but truly it feels like they have a lot of puzzle pieces not fitting together either. Very sad. Very, very scary for the family.
 
That puts into perspective the sale of the house in Dec, but leasing until now ... most likely in anticipation of protecting assets during bankruptcy. I couldn't understand why the house was sold at a time when sales are low when they had no plans to move until sales are high.

They have been really tight lipped about the family's past - so surprised to hear this is the first of a former employee talking about anything to do with AL given his numerous business dealings. Where are KL's co-workers or business partners too? So strange... it's like they are cardboard people so little is being said about them - is this because they have a strong suspicion this all links back to some revenge plot? Why is so little being said about them personally?
 
I somehow feel that the violence that took place in the home was not premeditated but rather the result of a nasty dispute that escalated. We do not know anything about the weapon used to cause the 'medical distress'; stabbing, blunt force trauma? I'm wondering if the weapon was seized from the home. If the three family members were forced from the home, I'm wondering if the perp used a gun as a threat. It would be interesting to know whether any weapons were seized during the search of the Garland property? I must say, however, that reading the recent news of the AL bankrupt company I wonder if this contributed to the Sunday night happenings. There seem to be a number of possibilities. Something just doesn't add up! It's all mind boggling, to say the least.
 
That's possible. It's also possible that he that he was never compensated for work completed.

Makes sense. DG's role as a chemist could have been useful in the grand scheme of a petroleum exploration venture. Lab hours can be contracted at facilities used by freelance chemists. Maybe he was involved in testing samples, falsifying results ? If results were falsified ...... (just speculating) - there would have been plenty of angry people looking for someone to blame.

Someone mentioned the possibility of mob involvement - the HA is pretty well established in Calgary, with strong (purported) links to real estate and cocaine running, ie. Lindsay Buziak. http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=a2657721-2de9-4785-aa89-7d3894f6f54e
 
I am starting to think someone is on the lamb and took NO with them.
Often times spouses shield one another from financial problems and if KL and AL got into a dispute late that night over their financials something may have occurred unplanned. If it was KL that was injured perhaps NO and AL are still alive and safe. That would be a better scenario for the family bringing some hope to them. With so many business dealings, maybe a vehicle was not so hard to come by for AL to leave with. Maybe he was planning on leaving all along with KL and a unknown vehicle was available to them. Would that be why they were selling everything. (I know it has been on MSM they were moving to Mexico, Edmonton etc which is why they said they were selling everything) but maybe the discrepancies of telling people different stories of where they were going was a rouse.

Anyone looking to disappear or deciding to go "on the lam" (no 'b') doesn't take someone else's child with them - it's the worst possible idea. Children are taken for abuse, hostage, or custody reasons - none of which have even been remotely mentioned as factors in this mystery.
 
I know we've brought up the potential for domestic violence several times, and normally it would be the first thought that crosses your mind if a couple is involved, but LE has seemed adamant since the beginning that these are three victims. It just doesn't add up given that none of their vehicles are gone either. LE must know something more substantial to indicate that they didn't leave of their own free will and that none of them caused the violence in the home (can they know that??)... I'm now thinking that it MUST be AL's blood as otherwise wouldn't they suspect him more closely and consider a domestic situation? Or worse, it's all three of their blood. If there was enough blood to indicate they were all killed though wouldn't they have called off the Amber Alert or is that tipping their hand somehow?

I am out of theories... I just know this is some really crazy situation, and from the latest presser it seems like LE is well-intentioned in investigating DG, but truly it feels like they have a lot of puzzle pieces not fitting together either. Very sad. Very, very scary for the family.

Exactly. If LE had any reason to suspect bad actions by the grandparents, it would be bordering on irresponsible (and perhaps unprecedented?) to have them running free without a public warning that they could be dangerous.
 
Does the mob have a large role in the oil industry in Calgary?
 
I know the picture you mean, and in looking for it, found these.

Front left quarter panel and wheel well - no mud

Right Passenger side of truck, front right quarter panel and wheel well - mud

Rear bumper - zoomed in, I can't see anything

Good observation.

View attachment 54453

View attachment 54452

View attachment 54454

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/missin...-emotional-plea-for-their-superhero-1.1895317
I just have a gut feeling this detail of the mud on the grandfather's truck is relevant. Was the mud already on the truck, when JO was still there before leaving Nathan overnight? Or was the truck used after JO left, and the mud on the truck was from that use? Did JO notice?

Could DG have been set up with someone else "borrowing" his truck, and/or driving a similar looking one in the neighbourhood? If so, who would benefit from diverting police with such a "wild goose chase"? This would mean, there was planning involved. What wasn't planned, was that Nathan would be there that night for a sleepover.

What concerns me:

The real reason the grandparents sold their home, and from what I've read in earlier posts, the timing of same. With the real estate market, I read in an earlier posting, that if they weren't in such a hurry, and waited longer they may have realized another $100K on the sale. Having said that, I'm leaning towards the fact that there was an urgency to sell their home sooner rather than later, but WHY?? Who wouldn't want to get an extra 100K? Can't see AL doing that without some reason. To get out-of-town? To liquefy because there was a need for lots of cash?

And then, there being different stories out there - one, that they were moving to Mexico; two, they were moving to Edmonton; three, they were "going" to Mexico, and then Edmonton, where they had already purchased a home. Hmm. Seems I read that AL said one thing, and KL another. Where does the truth lie? Were they on the same page all the time as to where they were going after the sale of the home and then its furnishings, etc.? And Mexico - really? It may be cheap to live there, but wouldn't be my first choice. What would be the difference between "escaping" and living in Edmonton versus Calgary - cost-wise? Moving there, the grandparents could still be located if somebody were after them for something.

Also, any grandparents I know, want to be as close as possible to their grandchildren, and that point has already been made by a previous poster - especially younger grandchildren. I do note that the distance between Calgary and Edmonton, is about 300 klm, or approximately a 3-hour drive. Still a long ways to travel to see family.

I do believe, unfortunately, that very few details are being released, and us sleuthers have really, very little to go on. There are too many unknowns here, and therefore too many theories. The more I focus on what is known, I find those facts in and of themselves, are not what I would call the "norm", which leaves me scratching my head that there indeed is something off about this whole idea of the grandparents moving.

I've asked myself - is this incident tied to someone that went through the estate sale, or to someone they know?

My guess is, it's someone they know - and well, or someone "one" of the grandparents knows well. And, whoever it was (one or more), is the reason that three bodies weren't left behind - there weren't three bodies to be removed, though it obviously does sounds like one was already in such severe medical distress, and possibly on the way to death if the injury sustained resulted in enormous blood loss. And, I don't think the blood loss at the scene was NO's. I think if that were true, it would be much harder to keep quiet and under wraps. So, who got injured? AL or KL? I would likely think it was AL for three reasons: He's the "man", and more likely to come to everyone's defence as their protector; he may very well be the subject of who was there and why, and finally, he would be the "strongest" one that may need to be taken out or down, to leverage the removal of the rest, who wouldn't want to be leaving on their own accord. Where if it was a robbery, I think we'd be more inclined to see the robbers take, and get what they want/could, and leave the victims behind in their home.

A lot of focus has been on AL rather than KL, yet the stress has been on that they are all victims here. If I buy into the theory that AL for whatever reason was involved in so many businesses and dealings, and that something, somewhere went wrong for him, maybe they indeed needed to liquefy as much as they could of their assets. So, going with that, whatever bad connection dealing with Al went sour, it may not have been with DG, but someone that knew of DG's prior involvement with AL. What better way to point the finger and suspicion elsewhere?
 
I am out of theories... I just know this is some really crazy situation, and from the latest presser it seems like LE is well-intentioned in investigating DG, but truly it feels like they have a lot of puzzle pieces not fitting together either. Very sad. Very, very scary for the family.
I don't really agree with this premise (at least for now).

But it is interesting if you review the story and timeline and *erase* the truck as a mistake or red herring.

I can think of lots of ways that could happen, but don't want to belabour it. But if you consider the situation with no truck in your mind, they have a distant relative where a former non-violent offender lived. That's not much.

Of course LE knows much more than we do. Suppose DG has no good alibi for the week, suppose DG's fingerprints found at the house, suppose digital records of calls/texts involving DG. None of these are incrimination alone, but all of them together would serve to pile up the circumstances. And there'd be no reason for LE to mention these in public yet.

Conversely, if DG has a good alibi, no fingerprints, no injuries, digital searches revealed nothing, that would probably incline LE to be less suspicious of DG.
 
Partial Quote by KittyMeow:
Notes from press conference:

-LE is trying to practice a delicate balance to provide info to public without jeopardizing the investigation itself or any future potential court case
-confirms the property is still being searched "until no stone has been unturned"
-confirms again that the ford truck was removed from the property on the weekend
-LE still trying to confirm any relevance/connection of the truck to amber alert
-amber alert is still in affect and LE is seeking public assistance
-can not speak about the POI as he is not charged and has been released from custody related to this investigation.
-amber alert will stay open as long as tips continue to come in
-"absolutely" still hopeful family is alive and LE has no indication to suggest anything other than them being alive.
-says that yes the signs of violence is a concern about the family's wellbeing but not conclusive enough to say they aren't alive

I don't think there was much blood.
I am going to sit on my hands to avoid a mod snip.

JMO
 
If you ran and jumped the wire you would fall about 15 feet and tumble for a good 50 feet more and then come to a soft landing on asphalt about 12 feet below that. It is a steep valley of cliffs and trees.
 
In light of where IMO LE is presently in the investigation, which to me appears as though LE has very little to no evidence on DG both physical and intel wise at the farm or in the green truck that was seized juxtaposition that with what AL said in his telephone interview about DG and AL connections, I cant help but shake the feeling they have the wrong perp. That is not to say DG is not accountable for whatever offences he has committed recently with ID issues but I don't get the sense he was involved anymore. This could be why he has been only (somewhat helpful) paraphrasing because he hasn't given LE what they want to hear because maybe he has nothing to offer.
So I am going to throw this out there but I think maybe LE has wasted time on DG and the crime and criminal is something or someone different then what we thought for a while with DG.

I tend to agree with you on this. I think that green truck that was caught on the cctv probably was DG, as we know the history their now, between AL and DG. DG probably was there checking things out. Someone called in the tip about that truck and the LE landed up at the Garland property. Up front and initially it looked like the right perp, but I am sure they have just discovered a bunch of evidence to other criminal activity and have conducted this huge search just to be certain if the guy isn't lying . also it could be a coverup to bring out the real perps. The perps will mess up soon and make a mistake.
My thoughts are still going back to a robbery gone bad, perps were at the sale, scoped the place out in the midst of people, possibly hid in the house till later, knowing there would be at least a couple of thousand dollars cash. AL tried to ward the perp away , got hurt, the perp may have grabbed NO, said shut your mouths or you all get killed, possibly holding the grandchild physically , now what would you do as a grandparent in that case? The perp or perps knew if they left them and ran, the cops would be on them asap. so the perp panicked and took them they possibly walked out the door with no commotion and the neighbors seen or heard nothing. with a vehicle parked somewhere else and either the grandfather driving injured or grandmother driving and perp holding NO. just a theory as I have been addicted to this case. but where are they?
 
Going way out on a limb to speculate here... suppose this does turn out to be the worst case scenario crime, and the POI is involved.

He's had 5 days of custody to get raked by LE, several of those apparently without legal counsel. Is he the type that would 'crack'?

We can look to his past misdeeds and misadventures for clues, and he actually seems kind of the opposite. We see repeated instances where he owns up to previous mistakes, confesses his mistakes, admits to nervous breakdowns, and so on. Whether all the things he's conceded are entirely true isn't necessarily the point, just that he's shown a lot of past tendency towards admitting things, as opposed to denial and self-delusion. Whether he was exclusively involved, assisted, or just knows or suspects something, past history suggests he'd be more inclined to talk than to clam up.
 
Anyone looking to disappear or deciding to go "on the lam" (no 'b') doesn't take someone else's child with them - it's the worst possible idea. Children are taken for abuse, hostage, or custody reasons - none of which have even been remotely mentioned as factors in this mystery.

Thank you Carol for spelling lesson. The premise of post was if there was an unplanned event then potentially someone had to leave and possibly took NO with them out of necessity. Hoping for a happy ending for the family ultimately.
 
Does the mob have a large role in the oil industry in Calgary?

No. Calgary is a white collar oil city with many head offices for international oil companies. There is no mob involvement in oil and gas in Calgary.
 
Why didn't LE ask the family if they recognized the green truck before they released that picture to the public?

I wondered the same thing. AL's son is married to the POI's sister. LE said they are studying more than one angle. Maybe one of them is watching the family, too? (Think Casey Anthony when LE watched/videoed her reaction to seeing the news that they found Caylee.)
 
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