CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[annemc2]

Migraines can cause all sorts of sensory and motor impairment just on their own. Vestibular symptoms, visual auras, olfactory hallucinations and all kinds of bizarre things. Throw in a medication (historically a triptan) to exacerbate things. Some meds knock me flat on my butt and some don't affect me at all. It's a crapshoot if they even work.

My sweet neighbors tried to help me a few years ago with "medicine" from their little farm and oh man, once I saw a god-like apparition in my ceiling baahaha. Strangely, cannabis can also tank your blood pressure, causing light-headedness (ask me how I know). That experiment didn't go so well!

All of that being said, this case had my mind flopping back and forth like a fish during the episode. I don't know what to make of it. Almost every argument written here has me changing my mind!

 

[otto]

1) Either she fell into the piggy bank headfirst and then tumbled down the stairs or 2) someone picked it up, smashed her in the head, and then placed it back on the ledge where it (apparently) normally sat.

There's just zero evidence that anyone else was in that house.

I mentioned it before, but I think many are overlooking the role cannabis could've played in her impairment.

Did she fall or was she pushed.
That's the question.

No one picked up the piggy bank. That has been confirmed by police. The piggy bank was found on the stairwell landing ledge, covered in dust, missing a nose. It was not touched during Amanda's death, other than the missing nose and dent in the wall.

Fragments of the piggy bank's nose were found embedded in her head and on the stairwell leading to the concrete basement floor.

It must take a lot of force to completely miss two steps, slam into the wall, lose footing, and take a header 90 degrees down the stairs. She was stoned, but so stoned that she took a header down the stairs and bled to death?

 

[iamshadow21]

This case reminds me so much of that of Janice Johnson. The husband was convicted, but freed on appeal after five years after it was proved a freak accident.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/clayton-johnson-wrongful-conviction-shelburne-1.4307049

But it also reminds me of Kathleen Peterson, and people can't decide on that one.

I, personally, think Amanda's death was a horrible accident. People act in all kinds of strange ways with a)migraines, b)drugs, c)head injuries, and d)blood loss. She had all four at once. I think she was severely cognitively affected, and as her blood loss continued, it only got worse. We know she stood at the foot of the stairs. I think by the time she did that, she literally couldn't understand how to climb them, just that it was her way out, and she needed help. Very, very sad.

Makes me glad I don't have staircases or a basement in my home. Apart from a couple up to the front door, it's all one level.

MOO

 

[otto]

Agreed.

The dog could have knocked over the chair in a panic after being stepped on.

The chair was on the other side of the table from the phone.

Something happened for Amanda to take a full on header down two stairs into the wall, crack the nose of the piggy bank, embed piggy bank fragments in her head and on the stairs, and die.

The chair doesn't make sense.

She was on the phone with her husband at 7:06 P.M. At 7:10 P.M., the phone disconnected. When she was on the phone with her husband, was she walking and talking, or sitting on the chair?

If she thought a stranger was in the house, why didn't she say - hey, something weird here. Stay on the phone while I look around. Phone disconnected.

Drop the phone, trip over the dog, sure. But the chair doesn't fit.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Other than the tipped-over chair, I'm leaning towards accident. The chair has no explanation, unless, while she was on the phone, the dog barked, she stood up quickly, knocked over the chair, lunged towards the dog, dropped her phone, went head first into the piggy bank, lost her balance, and somersaulted down the stairs.

Amanda had cannabis in her system. It's unknown what levels she needed to loose balance and analytical thinking ability.

The hypothetical 'murder weapon' was the piggy bank, and there is evidence that her head impacted the piggy bank while it was sitting on the shelf next to the landing. There is evidence that the piggy bank was not touched, or moved off the shelf, before or after Amanda's head contacted the piggy bank.

There is evidence of the piggy bank on the stairs. The only explanation is that Amanda's head contacted the piggy bank, pieces of the piggy bank are embedded in her head, and fragments fell out of her head as she tumbled down the stairs.

How many times did she hit her head?

1. hit the piggy bank with her head
2. fragments of the piggy bank on the stairs
3. hit her head on the concrete basement floor when she landed?

There's no evidence that anyone, other than the victim, was at the bottom of the stairs. Every fragment of evidence, blood drops, foot prints and blood smears belonged to Amanda.

There's evidence that Amanda bled to death. Between hitting the piggy bank and dying, there is evidence that she fell, stood up, left large blood drops on top of smeared blood, moved around in the blood while lying on the floor, smeared blood around, stood facing the stairs, but did not walk up the stairs.

Amanda had some bruising on her body, which could be explained by falling down the stairs.

Time of death is between 7-7:30 P.M., shortly after the call with her husband abruptly ended.

"If the wound is bad enough to cause rapid blood loss, bleeding to death can happen as quickly as 5 minutes. If the bleeding is slower but continuous, days can pass before bleeding to death is occurs.​

https://study.com/academy/lesson/symptoms-of-bleeding-out.html

A neighbour came forward, at some point, to say that someone was in the yard. It's possible that someone was cutting through the yard. It might not be relevant. See 100 block of Castledale Way NE : map

Husband has been ruled out. His sister has been ruled out. Nothing on electronic devices supports a private friendship that Amanda was pursuing. She was not getting divorced, but she expressed frustration to her siblings that her husband was having trouble keeping a job.

Amanda's pants were "down around her knees." Bleeding out is associated with hypothermia. As she was dying, did she feel hot and want to remove her clothing?

"Hypothermia in trauma patients is a common condition. It is aggravated by traumatic hemorrhage, which leads to hypovolemic shock. This hypovolemic shock results in a lethal triad of hypothermia, coagulopathy, and acidosis, leading to ongoing bleeding."​

Hypothermia in Trauma

Hypothermia in trauma patients is a common condition. It is aggravated by traumatic hemorrhage, which leads to hypovolemic shock. This hypovolemic shock results in a lethal triad of hypothermia, coagulopathy, and acidosis, leading to ongoing bleeding. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You make great points Otto

Did they say they ruled out the sister? I'm foggy and don't recall that but I might've missed that.

I still feel like if she fell into the piggy bank it would've fallen off the ledge and since she would've been a moving/in motion entity and force - the piggy bank would've fallen. She would've miraculously had to fall almost at a 90 degree angle to smack down on that piggy bank and somehow not jar it to move it more.

I still think someone grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head once into that piggy bank and she turned her head as a defensive and got cut by fluke in that tender temporal area to bleed out more.

Had she hit the piggy bank head on, her skull bone would've protected her more and not bleed so much... she would've lived. I don't think the person meant to kill her, but she fell down the stairs or was kicked after the head wound and the killer maybe panicked and waited a bit then fled. JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

1) Either she fell into the piggy bank headfirst and then tumbled down the stairs or 2) someone picked it up, smashed her in the head, and then placed it back on the ledge where it (apparently) normally sat.

There's just zero evidence that anyone else was in that house.

I mentioned it before, but I think many are overlooking the role cannabis could've played in her impairment.

Cannabis doesn't really impair people much when used for pain relief. We don't know if she smoked it, edible or oil. Some cannabis is for body and some for mind. Maybe a body stone would physically alter someone but hard to say it's impact.

And I agree with your point #1 - she would've had to have that miraculous angle to hit (slam hard) head first with a tilt and angle of her head in that tender area to be so deadly.

For point #2, I don't think someone picked it up. I think they grabbed her by the hair and slammed her into it. It never needed to move.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Something happened for Amanda to take a full on header down two stairs into the wall, crack the nose of the piggy bank, embed piggy bank fragments in her head and on the stairs, and die.

The chair doesn't make sense.

She was on the phone with her husband at 7:06 P.M. At 7:10 P.M., the phone disconnected. When she was on the phone with her husband, was she walking and talking, or sitting on the chair?

If she thought a stranger was in the house, why didn't she say - hey, something weird here. Stay on the phone while I look around. Phone disconnected.

Drop the phone, trip over the dog, sure. But the chair doesn't fit.


View attachment 523847

I think it happened fast. I think someone stormed in, grabbed the phone right out of her hand mid-convo, smashed it with the heel of their foot/shoe and maybe chased Amanda around the kitchen to get in her face.

Didn't her husband say he heard a crunch? I think I read that upthread, not sure if correct from the doc. I think someone smashed the phone with the heel of their foot/shoe. That would take 2 seconds.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Agreed.

The dog could have knocked over the chair in a panic after being stepped on.

The chair was on the other side of the table from the phone.

We have a huge dog, he can't even knock over any of our chairs! It's never happened. A crappy old school light weight lawn chair on grass maybe... but not a kitchen table chair. How often has that actually happened to people? Come on...

And how many pet owners trip over their pets on medication/cannabis and fall to their deaths in a bloody mess? Oh wait... AND it's the one night it's known their husband is away.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

We have a huge dog, he can't even knock over any of our chairs! It's never happened. A crappy old school light weight lawn chair on grass maybe... but not a kitchen table chair. How often has that actually happened to people? Come on...

And how many pet owners trip over their pets on medication/cannabis and fall to their deaths in a bloody mess? Oh wait... AND it's the one night it's known their husband is away.

You could just as easily say, “How often are people randomly murdered by strangers with no apparent motive, no robbery, and no evidence?” The odds for both options are pretty long, which is why I lean toward accident. The combo of illness and drugs can be lethal and has led to stranger accidents in the past.

For the sake of counterpoint, I’ve had dogs who have knocked over heavy dining chairs while doing the zoomies.

The animals not going downstairs isn’t a red flag to me. They were probably traumatized and scared, could smell death. Not every pet is the trusty companion that will fearlessly follow their master into danger. The phone is the biggest question mark for me.

 

[Poedelini]

Why is the phone so far away from the stairs? This question is blocking my accident theory.

 

[dotr]

• Amanda Antoni's Case in Unsolved Mysteries Has Fans Questioning What Really Happened
• By Gaius Bolling Published 13 hours ago
• ''The mysterious death of Amanda Antoni in "Body in the Basement" has sparked intense debate online over various theories.
• Despite the suspicion falling on her husband, Lee Antoni, his alibi was verified, ruling him out as a suspect in Amanda's death.
• The perplexing case includes strange details like a bloody scene, an overturned chair, and a broken piggy bank, leaving many unanswered questions.''

''One of the neighbors of the Antonis' was interviewed and said during the time of the reported last phone call Amanda and Lee had together, they heard loud noises coming from the Antoni home, followed by screaming. After the commotion, another neighbor said they saw someone running away from the direction of the house and through another neighbor's backyard.''

''During Lee's conversation with Amanda, he said that he could hear the dog barking towards the end of the call, and Amanda began to try to calm the pet down before Lee heard the dog yelp and a crunching sound before the call abruptly ended. In the accident theory, some believe Amanda could've possibly tripped over the dog, or the dog got under her, which caused her to fall down the basement stairs, which ultimately caused her severe head injury.''

 

[otto]

You make great points Otto

Did they say they ruled out the sister? I'm foggy and don't recall that but I might've missed that.

I still feel like if she fell into the piggy bank it would've fallen off the ledge and since she would've been a moving/in motion entity and force - the piggy bank would've fallen. She would've miraculously had to fall almost at a 90 degree angle to smack down on that piggy bank and somehow not jar it to move it more.

I still think someone grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head once into that piggy bank and she turned her head as a defensive and got cut by fluke in that tender temporal area to bleed out more.

Had she hit the piggy bank head on, her skull bone would've protected her more and not bleed so much... she would've lived. I don't think the person meant to kill her, but she fell down the stairs or was kicked after the head wound and the killer maybe panicked and waited a bit then fled. JMO

The husband's sister was investigated and ruled out (Netflix episode).

I've attached a photo of the piggy bank, and added the piggy bank location to the stairs drawing. Police examined all possibilities around the piggy bank. It had damage on the front, and there was a dent in the wall that corresponded to the piggy bank being pushed into the wall. There was a layer of dust on it, proving that no one had picked it up for some time.

The shelf on the landing is probably at the same height as the floor in the dining room. To fall into the piggy bank head first she would almost have to step into the stairwell without taking into consideration that there's a step. It makes more sense if she was shoved and was unable to prepare for stepping down. Being stoned, it's hard to say.

I've added a path that she would have taken to knock over the chair, drop the phone, and fall down the stairs. She was talking to her husband when this happened. If she heard or saw someone in the house, why didn't she say something?

 

[Fabled Automatic]

Divot in the wall proves nothing. Something could have hit against it such as a laundry basket, vacuum, or anything a long time ago.

I’m no physicist but things do break and rebound when they hit something hard enough. Such as an orbital bone.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had a ceramic piece that has sat and sat in one location for years, but it can develop a sticky dust layer that’s very hard to budge.

Nobody knows if her phone was broken prior to the attack. She was home alone for a period of time. She might have broken it that morning. She might have broken it and thought “oh dammit” and sat down at the table to see if it was working. She then dropped it and it shattered more.

The show, I believe, showed the dog outside barking frantically. She obviously only left him out before she got hurt or someone else did, or the show was inaccurate. I don’t know.

My cats wouldn’t check on me unless they were hungry. They are very sweet but cats are cats. A dog? Could the dog get down the stairs? My old dog couldn’t go down stairs.

Nothing is paranormal. We just lack a timeline of events.

Funny enough, after seeing this episode two weeks ago, I was cleaning our spare room last week to make room for some equipment. I picked up an old wind up clock that had been sitting on a ledge for years to move it. I immediately noted the layer of dust on it stayed when I moved it, because the detail of the piggy bank was fresh in my mind.

I don't have any theories of my own about the murder, but I disagree with some details of the show. That piggy bank could have been picked up and put down, without removing the layer of dust. Conversely, there is no evidence the dent in the wall was caused by the blow that shattered it on Amanda's head.

I personally don't entertain any ideas of anything paranormal, but I really can't think of any good reason the dog would have stayed out of the basement, unless it was physically incapable of using stairs, which should have been mentioned if that is the case.

This case strongly reminds me of the death of Michael Peterson's wife, Kathleen. If it wasn't a murder, it was one of the world's most unlikely accidents.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

For point #2, I don't think someone picked it up. I think they grabbed her by the hair and slammed her into it. It never needed to move.

I presume if someone stood over her on that stairs and hit her with the piggybank, there would at least be a footprint or a stray hair, or something. There was blood and fragments of the piggybank on the stairs. Certainly these things falling on or around a foot would leave at least a partial impression.

 

[DarkSkink]

Something happened for Amanda to take a full on header down two stairs into the wall, crack the nose of the piggy bank, embed piggy bank fragments in her head and on the stairs, and die.

The chair doesn't make sense.

She was on the phone with her husband at 7:06 P.M. At 7:10 P.M., the phone disconnected. When she was on the phone with her husband, was she walking and talking, or sitting on the chair?

If she thought a stranger was in the house, why didn't she say - hey, something weird here. Stay on the phone while I look around. Phone disconnected.

Drop the phone, trip over the dog, sure. But the chair doesn't fit.


View attachment 523847

I'm saying it may have been the dog that knocked the chair over.

Lee hears the dog yelp and the phone goes dead. She may not have seen the dog, then trips over it or loses her balance trying not to step on it.

The dog could have panicked and ran under the table. It's large enough that it could have knocked the chair over.

 

[DarkSkink]

I presume if someone stood over her on that stairs and hit her with the piggybank, there would at least be a footprint or a stray hair, or something. There was blood and fragments of the piggybank on the stairs. Certainly these things falling on or around a foot would leave at least a partial impression.

There was a dent in the wall from the piggy bank, right behind where the piggy bank was left.

The piggy bank was likely impacted and pushed into the wall.

It's consistent with the head first fall theory.

 

[annemc2]

There was a dent in the wall from the piggy bank, right behind where the piggy bank was left.

The piggy bank was likely impacted and pushed into the wall.

It's consistent with the head first fall theory.

I'm not good with spatial stuff but does it seem like the piggy bank hit the wall then ricocheted back and was blocked by the bannister? Do you think that's why it didn't fall off? She hit it *hard*.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I presume if someone stood over her on that stairs and hit her with the piggybank, there would at least be a footprint or a stray hair, or something. There was blood and fragments of the piggybank on the stairs. Certainly these things falling on or around a foot would leave at least a partial impression.

I see what you are saying, I'm curious the weather that day and if any prints would even be found in the house if no major weather (no mud, rain, snow, etc.) to do so. If a nice dry night, no prints would be found?

I don't think ceramic/porcelain debris would be found around a foot as the it was embedded in her head and seems to fall off on her way down the stairs. The debris seemed to stay with her.

I am also wondering about the DNA, if it was someone who was at the residence before if wouldn't be foreign.

 

[dotr]

Not likely, but fwiw.. speculation.
When positioned low between 2 points, fishing line or dental floss is hard to see, can trip you up, then be quickly and easily removed.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thanks @otto for the refresh on the piggy bank image upthread.

Now I'm a little more baffled from the angle of the piggy bank. It looks more on an angle facing towards the basement, does anyone else see that? Almost like she would've smacked it coming up the stairs? It looks facing the wrong way to hit falling down the stairs to me.