CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Salem, Jan 12, 2013.

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  1. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Please continue here.

    Remember: It is against TOS to accuse innocent people of crimes. If your sleuthing leads you to speculate, you must speculate and post responsibly. There must be some basis in fact, as we know them from LE or MSM, for the speculation. Wild speculation is NOT allowed. YOU are RESPONSIBLE for the words you post.

    1. Do not accuse others.

    2. Do not NAME innocent people that have not been named by MSM or LE. Use their initials. If your comments amount to speculation, then use initials. Name calling and name variations are NOT allowed, so don't try to make up some nickname. Just use initials.

    3. If you have questions or concerns, PM a mod. Don't discuss it in the thread - just send a note to a Mod and they will take care of it.

    4. As always, if a post offends you, alert it and the let the Mods handle it. Do NOT take it upon yourself to address it in the thread, because that will just result in repercussions for you.


    NOTE: Threads 5 and 6 have been pulled for review. The threads may, or may not be returned depending upon the review.

    Thanks,

    Salem

    Thread #1
    Thread #2
    Thread #3

    Thread #7
     
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  3. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here.

    Reminder: Rumors can do serious harm to a criminal investigation. If the media has not reported on a specific detail of a crime, it's likely for one of two reasons:

    1) The authorities have cause to withhold the information from the public; or

    2) It's not a fact, untrue.
     
  4. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    Oh happy day! A new thread for Audrey!! I have nothing to really add at this point; I was just coming here to see if anything is new.

    THOUGHT:

    This is far out there, but please bear with me:

    Audrey drove a fast, hot car.

    TB has been murdered. The accused was into fast cars, trucks and planes.

    Does anyone think that Audrey was stalked by a 'car freak' and then killed by this same person?

    (I'm getting desperate here!!)

    :twocents:
     
  5. Chorley8

    Chorley8 Active Member

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    Well here is hoping we an be creative but not too creative think outside the box but not to absurdity - somewhere in here is the way to be not sure where exactly:
    Mind Games - John Lennon - YouTube
     
  6. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    I'm extremely grateful that the rumours which were posted have been modsnipped. And I'm trying to put the rumours out of my mind.

    Re Chorley8's John Lennon tune - was someone just playing mind games with us? With LE? And why?

    I'm hoping LE follows this site/thread and I hope LE saw those rumours. It might help LE keep a tighter lid on things. Or, the entire thing might have been a not-so-funny joke. :scared:

    :gomods:
     
  7. Chorley8

    Chorley8 Active Member

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    NS yes to your question.

    Yes also the nice trick with the John L. song is that it inverts the pejorative, turns it into something positive a nice idea and possible to try.
     
  8. patchtimes

    patchtimes New Member

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    I admit that I now regret posting about some "rumours" that I've heard because I don't wish to complicate an ongoing investigation. It's just that I had not heard anything about the case in so long that I felt perhaps it had stalled and I was happy to see that there was a group of people here still interested in solving this horrible crime. I just wanted to help fill in some of the gaps, as I had some inside information. Rumours, yes. But obviously I still believe what I said to be true. Otherwise I would not have gotten involved. I really just wanted to help.

    I feel there is a bit of hostility being directed toward me but I sense that some of you feel a real kinship with Audrey and want to protect her. I get it. I understand the suspicion. I wish to respect the LE that have done such a great job with the TB case, and bow out peacefully.

    Just one last thing. I don't think the TB case is related. I think Audrey's killer knew her and that the attack was deeply personal and came with history, for reasons I've already offered. The TB death is similarly disturbing though, and I feel so sad that such things are happening so close to home, in an otherwise warm and friendly community. I grew up here and still live here, and I find this all very hard.

    That's really all I have to say. I wish you all peace, love, and understanding.
     
  9. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    I've been doing some reading about murders and why killers do what they do (hey, there's nothing much else to do when there's a frost warning and nearly snow in late May!!:rockon:). OK, strangulation is the most intimate kind of murder because it's so up close and personal. Stabbing is considered to be more hateful and vicious.

    Now - this is interesting. Criminologists say that when a body is covered and not exposed/posed in a sexual manner or any other demeaning manner it means that the killer has some warm and kindly feeling towards the victim. I know that sounds ludicrous, but Audrey's body was (basically) fully clothed - coat on, pants on, shoes on. PK really didn't know what had happened until he took a closer look.

    I'm just tossing this out there. Can we decipher anything from this?

    :twocents:
     
  10. colette

    colette Well-Known Member

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    I think when someone talks about covering the body and the killer has warm kindly feelings, I think they are talking about something like a blanket covering the body. (Or towel over the face, ect.) If Audrey's coat had been placed over her body as to cover it, then I agree. But if she was just wearing the clothes, coat and shoes as she had been when she was murdered I don't think that is the same thing.
     
  11. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    I know what you mean, colette......but then HOW was Audrey killed? With her coat ON? Did the killer put the coat back on her dead body?

    Still far too many questions lingering.....
     
  12. colette

    colette Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like her coat was still on. That is why I think whomever killed her got her as she was coming or going. I don't think she was in the home and the killer came in. I think Audrey was leaving the home or going back in through the garage and was surprised. My question is, did he lay in wait or just happened on her?
     
  13. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    This article details a number of homes in the GTA that have resold after a murder, although Audrey's home was not mentioned.
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/05/27/would_you_move_into_luka_magnottas_old_apartment.html

    "If you knew someone had died in a house or apartment, would you buy it? If you already lived there, would that knowledge be enough to make you move?

    Tenants have recently made accused killer Luka Magnotta’s Montreal apartment their home.

    Though many of these places have been demolished — including Paul Bernardo’s Bayview Ave. home in St. Catharines where he used to commit his sexual assaults and tortures — plenty of notorious abodes are occupied:"
     
  14. sillybilly

    sillybilly WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Is there anyone here who can remember or has access to details about Audrey's Camaro.
    Please and Thanks !!
     
  15. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  16. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    If that was the scenario, my humble guess would be that the killer was hiding and waiting for her to either arrive or exit.

    Now, if Audrey was arriving home in her Camaro, the killer could have followed the car into the garage and suprised her as she was turning off the car and opening the door to get out of the car.

    Would someone please remind me - were there dust marks on the pristine white car from LE dusting for prints?

    Thanks......
     
  17. sillybilly

    sillybilly WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Did we ever discuss that Audrey's Camaro may have had an immobilizer?

    from:
    http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/how-much-would-car-insurance-cost-for-a-chevy-camaro/

    From what I can gather, the original coded key would be required to be inserted in the ignition or the engine wouldn't start. I don't think we've never known for sure what became of Audrey's keys (iirc, it was indicated they might have been in her purse, but I don't think that was verified)

    One common denominator I'm considering in both Audrey's case and the case of Tim Bosma is the uniqueness / desirability of the vehicle or the engine itself.
     
  18. LeftCoaster

    LeftCoaster ~ Quot capita tot sensus ~

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    As the TB investigation progresses, the idea of a 'car freak' or connection between TB's murder and Audrey's doesn't seem so far out, NSU. Both suspects arrested thus far are quite the pieces of work, and if speculation about the third, yet-to-be-apprehended suspect being from Brantford turns out to be true, well.... Perhaps "Third time lucky"?:dunno:

    The "young" part is definitely there, considering we're seeing guys in their early- to mid-20s. "Close"? Geographically, perhaps... Brantford and Hamilton/Ancaster, with a bit of Waterloo Region.

    The spectre of a road-rage incident having led to Audrey's murder has been discussed here in the Audrey threads more than once. And now, Dellen Millard's farm, near Ayr, is being thoroughly investigated for possible evidence related to two Toronto cases. A post on one of the TB threads put it out there as to whether Millard might be into collecting :eek: "trophies." That jumped right out at me.:what:

    As always, :moo: and my own :twocents: added to this line of thinking.
    :escape:
     
  19. roseofsharon

    roseofsharon Active Member

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    Wow, I don't remember noticing the dark tint on A's car windows. When you are at a light and look at the car beside you, it is really hard to see the driver. The fact that A's windows are so dark has me thinking she may have been followed returning to her home with the perp intending to steal the car and assault the driver of the car.

    Speculating A pulled into her garage and the perp possibly pulled into A's driveway. A may have thought she knew who pulled in, so didn't shut the garage door.

    A's body was found bruised and battered, which sounds like she fought for her life.

    The perp probably expected a much younger person to sexually assault because of the hot car, but decided to sexually assault anyway, no doubt due to the fact he had been thinking about it while he followed the white camaro to its destination.

    A's dogs were probably barking furiously during the attack and the perp decided against stealing the car.

    Just speculating and IMO.

    So many very sad cases in the news ;-(
     
  20. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    SB, my 'Vette came equipped with an immobiliser. Here's how it works:

    If my car is stolen ( :scared: ) and the thief is driving on a highway at a fast speed, the cops (through GM) gently start slowing the car down. The thief loses control of the speed. It doesn't come to a rapid stop causing accidents. Then, the police escort the car over to the side of the road.

    I'm not sure about the coded key and the starting of the car up. I just know that the car can be slowed down whilst on a road and driven off the road to safety.

    :twocents:
     
  21. No_Stone_Unturned

    No_Stone_Unturned New Member

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    I also hadn't noticed how dark her car windows were. If I'm correct, GM cars with darkened windows have to be ordered that way. If memory serves, I don't think I've ever seen a Camaro in the GM showrooms with darkened windows. They usually just have the top of the front window darkened a bit for safety in the sunshine for the driver.

    Are we certain she had all windows darkened? Or, is this a trick of the light when that pic was taken?

    Another thing - the murder took place during a rainy period in late December. It would be wise to drive (even in the daylight) with one's lights on. And Camaros' lights come on automatically after 13 seconds of perceived darkness. I wonder if the killer saw the Camaro's lights approaching the house and got ready to follow the car into the garage?

    Finally - 'young and close'.......young YES and close regarding geography YES!!

    Now, to throw a spanner in the works - IF it's the same team involved in the TB killing......why didn't they take the car after the killing? The car was sitting perfectly in the garage when PK arrived!

    :twocents:
     
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