Canada - Baby girl, 3 wks, mauled to death by dog, Monteregie, QC, June 2010

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by kaas, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. kaas

    kaas Member

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    Here is the link to the article from CBC News.
    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/06/08/infant-mauled-by-dog.html

    The 3 week old infant girl was left inside, strapped in a carseat while mom and grandmom stepped outside the door. One of three dogs in the house attacked the poor little baby who died from her injuries.
    I am surprised at the quick laying of charge of manslaughter against the mother.
    Horrible, horrible tragedy.
     
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  3. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    O.K. what was it? The mom and gram stepped outside for a smoke or to see the roses? Does it matter?

    God forgive me as this is a horrific tradgedy, but it could have been avoided. Why didn't one person step outside and the other watch the baby? Then switch? Let alone with three dogs in the house.

    Sorry. I'm sick of people not having the sense they were born with. I'm sick of people not watching their kids. You don't leave an infant strapped in a seat alone even for a few minutes when ya got dogs in the home.:furious:
     
  4. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    I dunno even know what to think. Except that at 17 she was awfuly young to have had a baby much less to have this happen. I had two huskies in my house last month as my family members moved and needed me to keep the dogs. We also had a friend & 2 week old baby here staying and I have wlked out of the room leaving the baby in the swing or laying on the bed as the dogs wandered wherever. Not that i think it was a good idea I did it without even thinking about it,and I am a think every possible accident that can happen over type of mom. I wouldnt of left a walking or crawling baby. They said the door was left open. I always did this when I was moving bags from the car to this house when my kids where infants, Take the baby in set the carseat down and run out and grab my stuff.
    If people cannot reasonable asume their dog in harmless then they should have that dog. It sounds like in this case they asumed the dog to be harmless(most people do) and had no reason to believe it would attack now to charge her for something millions of people do leaving harmless dogs(btw I do not think any animal is harmless ) in rooms with babies because it resulted in the death of an infant is unfair.( Unfair in the legal sence not the that not fair sence) She walked out of her front door leaving the baby in a carseat...Normal not illegal...she left a dog in the house ...Normal not illegal. Where is the criminal intent or what law did she break?
    Maybe they should make a law so no one who has an infant or small child can own a dog that they keep in the house?
    Now if something changes and the baby had been crying for four hours and the dog decided to tend to it or if the car seat fell off the chair and landed on the dog causing it to flip out then maybe she does need a charge.
     
  5. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    I don't think the girls age has anything to do with it. If it's from lack of experience on what to do with an infant her own mother was present.

    Making a law that no dogs can be in a household with an infant is backward and will never happen.

    It comes down to common sense and knowledge. This was a brand new spanking baby. The dogs were there first. How a dog interprets a baby crying or flailing it's arms and legs obviously isn't how a human interprets it. This isn't the dogs fault. It's known that dogs who particularly chase down small prey are more apt to not socialize with an infant immediately. There has to be alot of time taken to introduce the baby to the household and show the dog how that works.

    It doesn't matter if the carseat was way up on a bookshelf. A chair? What's that to a dog? It doesn't matter if the baby was crying for two minutes or an hour. They left the baby alone. Two people. It's a very sad, sad thing that happened and it could have easily been avoided. I also don't think she should be charged with manslaughter. The site of seeing her brand new lovely baby mauled is punishment enough for the rest of her life for making that mistake.
     
  6. Trident

    Trident Well-Known Member

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    It seems like there needs to be blame for every accident and unforseen horror that happens - someone will damned well take the blame. Too bad our justice system doesn't always see it that way in regard to REAL abusers and molesters.

    That woman should NOT go to jail.
     
  7. Patty G

    Patty G Retired WS Staff

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    As I read the article about the baby being mauled by a dog, I thought perhaps there was a PitBull in the house. I have nothing against PitBulls as my son has one and she is as gentle as can be and love everyone.

    Now that I read the dogs are Huskies and that the infant was strapped in a car seat on a chair, makes me think the Huskies were just trying to remove the baby from the car seat in order to play.

    I had two Huskies and never once did they ever harm a child. If anything, they wanted to play all the time as the child was lower to the ground and easier to play with. Huskies have a tendency to protect a child in a household if a parent seems to be really annoyed. The Huskey will step in-between the child and parent and just sit there.

    I do hope charges are properly filed against the mother and I hope that the dogs are placed in a loving home.

    In this case, it's not the dog fault, it's the people caring for a child. You never leave a child unattended. The child could have easily slipped off the chair, fell on the floor with the car seat attached and could have resulted in death.
     
  8. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    That's right. Patty, what got me even more was there were TWO people there. The mother and the grandmother. Take the baby outside with you or take turns going out.

    Too late for that. Hindsight 20/20. I don't want to see the girl in jail though. She has to be suffering enough now. It's too sad.



    O.K. here's an update. Defense lawyer says the charges were too hasty. Agreed.

    The dogs did not belong to the couple who just moved there last week. The two Huskies belonged to another couple they moved in with. There is also another couple living in the home. There was also a third large dog in a cage with puppies.

    Dad is not blaming the child's mother. He said he had been out applying for welfare when he got the call about his little girl.



    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/good+mother+baby+father+says/3129215/story.html
     
  9. impatientredhead

    impatientredhead New Member

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    I would never leave any dog with an infant, any dog, but I do Malamute rescue and we absolutely warn people that dogs with high prey drive (like Malamutes and Huskies) can take the screams and squeals of a newborn as the sound of a small animal. They are wired to be stimulated by that sound.

    Prey drive in pairs of northern breed (any prey driven animal) is greatly increased. They respond to each others hunting behavior.

    I have a Malamute, adore her, think she would be fine with a baby after she understood it wasn't a critter, but I wouldn't test the theory. She loves kids and responds to them much like you have described in your post.

    I think what this mother did was negligent. Common negligence as in it happens every single day and most people get lucky, but it was negligent none the less.

    That being said I would MUCH prefer that we start prosecuting mothers that let their boyfriend of the day torture and rape their children and then play the victim card when the cops finally get involved.
     
  10. impatientredhead

    impatientredhead New Member

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    She left her newborn with dogs she didn't even know? In a house where the dogs are being bred? I think that makes it even more idiotic.
     
  11. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    Thank you for that information, IR.

    I didn't want to post that I was bitten by my grandmother's Huskie. Beautiful, beautiful animal. I just didn't want to start the breed specific posting. However, I was not the first person the dog bit.

    That being said the Vet explained to my grandfather that they are prey driven. They are also strong willed and because of the pack factor you have to absolutely from get go let the dog know who is boss. It had been my Uncle's dog first and left all day long alone in a cage. We are animal lovers so my grands took the dog so she wouldn't be alone all day. Somewhere in there the poor dog got confused and took run of my grandparent's home. This was two frail people in their 70's.

    I so do not blame the dog. I was only bit on the hand at the dinner table as I reached for a bowl. After that we never, ever took the kids up to my grandparent's home again. My gram refused to put the dog into another room if the kids visited. We all had little kids at the time and knowing the dog bit three times already it was just too risky.

    I appreciate your explanation. It was basically just what the Vet told my grandpop. We were raised with German Shepherd's and rule #1 was for us never to put our faces down by our dogs. Along with the other common sense rules a responsible dog owner follows.
     
  12. impatientredhead

    impatientredhead New Member

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    I think breed specific conversations are fine and needed for people to understand the dogs they are looking at bringing into their homes. I would much rather someone who is reading this and thinking of getting a Husky or Malamute because they're pretty know that they have very specific traits that are in the wiring. They are pack oriented, food possessive (which is why you got bit reaching for the bowl, messed up pack order combined with food), prey driven, prone to digging and escaping. If you know that going in and still want one then lets talk! Then we can talk about all the wonderful traits that in that package too.

    People get mad at me when they apply and have a 2 year old, one on the way, two cats, and a four foot fence and I suggest that it probably isn't the right time to introduce a Mal to the household. I will take the heat though and say no rather than find out the kid got nipped, the cat got killed, or the dog is out running around in traffic.

    We do occasionally get the lab-in-a-mute-suit as I have dubbed them, nothing malamute about them except the paint job. Those are the rare ones I have placed with little kids (if the owner has had big dogs in the past and sounds reasonable).

    But this mother, leaving her child with dogs she doesn't even know takes it to a whole nother level to me. I get that people think they know their dog and what it will and won't do in any given situation, this one I can't even wrap my head around the "logic".
     
  13. Tuffy

    Tuffy Not really that tough...

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    I agree with you completely. I wouldn't leave a newborn alone with my friendly little beagle, or any dog period.

    An infant can't give a dog commands, "down," "no," or "off." The poor baby can't even just move away, or go to another room if the dog is acting or playing too aggressively.

    Any child needs to be in control of a dog before being left alone with it, and an infant: most definitely NO WAY!
     
  14. KariKae

    KariKae Member

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    The women were about three metres away from the home with the door open when the baby was mauled.



    How could they they not hear the baby cry if it was being attached? I don't think the dogs would have silently attacked, would they? I wonder how long the baby was left alone.

    In my mind, this is more negligence, than manslaughter, but I do not know Canadian law.
     
  15. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    KK, Impatient Redhead could answer that better I think. However, I do know Huskies are quiet dogs. They are not prone to barking. They sort of "talk" if you will.

    I know they can growl something fierce. At least my grandP's did.

    An attack maybe that's different. Plus, who knows if they were actually really as close as they say they were? If you were that closse wouldn't you have put the baby carrier where you could see it? Again, the people made a huge mistake. Maybe everybody in this world wouldn't have had to keep their eyes on the baby. I sure did when I had an infant. Maybe too obsessively if there's such a thing.
     
  16. impatientredhead

    impatientredhead New Member

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    I hate to be graphic, but if the child was not actually strapped in and it was prey drive over the high pitched noises the dog would probably not make much noise unless it was fighting with the other dog over the "prize". The baby I would think would make some noise that would alert a parent that was trying to listen.

    If the dog grabbed the baby and the did the "death shake" that they do to small prey it may have been over so quickly that there wasn't much noise.

    I guess that is possible, but that would mean the child was not secured in anything and was probably laying on a blanket on the ground (in a house with three large dogs the mother doesn't know well).

    Huskies are smart but I am guessing their first go with a child seat would take a bit of time to figure out.
     
  17. Belinda

    Belinda Doer of Things

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    I'm really on the fence on this one. I can't decide if the women are just that incredibly dumb or if they are criminally dumb. Why would they not take the baby out with them? Why would you even be inclined to leave a newborn alone in a house, even for a few minutes? On the other hand, maybe she is really that dumb about dogs and just stepped out to have a smoke. I could see leaving a baby secured in a seat for a couple minutes while I had a quick puff, but not with dogs. My gut says they just popped out for a minute and never gave the dogs a second thought. But, if she was that close to the home, how did she not hear any commotion whatsoever? If it was me, my ears would have been glued for the slightest peep out of the baby. And, if she was just having a smoke, why is she away from the doorway, trotting about in the garden? Just typing out loud. I didn't have a dog when my daughter was a baby, so I can't really know how careful I would have been. Of course, there are so many stories these days of children being attacked by dogs. But, mostly you hear of pitbulls attacking, so maybe that gave her some sort of comfort level, rather than making her more alert.
     
  18. Paintr

    Paintr New Member

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    When my son was born, we owned a Siberian huskie. I often walked out of one room into another,leaving the dog and baby together. I never even considered that the dog might harm the baby. Maybe we were just lucky. Our son and our dog shared cookies, ice cream cones, a wading pool, and play for seven years.

    I am usually the first to condemn when a child is involved, but I sympathize with this poor mother.:(
     
  19. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the on the fence thing. I am an animal lover, long time responsible pet owner. As such, I was a mother with large powerful animals when my little ones were infants. I would never, in a million years, have left my infant in that circumstance.

    That said, it is a fact that there are many people who are pet owners who are just plain ill informed, or dumb about the risks involved with small children around dogs.

    Would I have ever been that dumb? NO! Do I think they should be help criminally negligent? That's a tough one. I think this was just a thoughtless moment. I also feel that mom and gramma are probably ready to slice their own wrists over this. How much more can the justice system punish them than they are already punishing themselves?
     
  20. ziggy

    ziggy New Member

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    Very well said. I think in many cases criminal negligence could be extended to mothers who fail to know the background of the men they entrust their children with. If you are criminally negligent to leave a baby unattended with dogs in the room then certainly it would make sense that if you leave your children in the care of a known violent person, rapist, child molester etc. it would rise to the same level of negligence.


    I think she is less negligent than the mothers who do the latter.
     
  21. PorcineGranny

    PorcineGranny crabby old lady!

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    In our society, are we accountable for stupidity? I think we are. When she had a child, she was responsible for the baby's care and well being. Its sad, but I think she should be charged. jmo
     

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