Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    Based on the apparent competency of the perpetrators, I believe they knew where the Shermans were at all times, and Honey was targeted.
     
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  2. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this is a repost. The Star reported that Jack Kay was ousted by JS on the first anniversary of the murders.

    He has moved on to another company. Working on a similar project that Barry was working on prior to the murders.

    Cannara Biotech Appoints Jack Kay, Former CEO of Apotex, as New Board Director

    I also checked on Jeremy Desai, former Apotex CEO. It was announced he left Apotex on the same day of the TPS news conference that stated the Shermans were murdered.

    He has also moved on to a cannabis company.

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...ral-Science-Based-CBD-Products-to-Market.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  3. MsSherlock

    MsSherlock Well-Known Member

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    I'm late to the conversation but "hi" to all the familiar WS'ers! Certainly an intriguing case. Not everyone racks up "frequent flyer/loyalty" points to any great degree. I'm interested to see if this leads anywhere. Note "owners of the cards" as opposed to the singular. If your bank records were being investigated, any travel paid for by loyalty points might in fact slide under the radar for a period of time.

    "The Star revealed last year that police investigated this case obtained production orders to obtain airline flight information from two providers of airline loyalty points plans. The identity of the owners of the cards remains sealed." Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’ | The Star
     
  4. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit that I don't recall that the Star ever revealed that LE obtained production orders for info on airline loyalty points. But as you noted, they knew that bank records would not provide this information.

    ETA It is evident that TPS (after getting beyond the M/S theory) were investigating POI's who left or came into Canada. Greenspan determined that there were more than two perps who were involved at the house. It sounds more like a professional hit, which I suspected, than a local, personal one. imo
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  5. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    The $10,000,00 reward has produced 291 tips, which have been passed along from Greenspan to TPS on a weekly basis. That's a lot of tips for one cop to handle, although he says he has back up from a handful of investigators who are still available to work on the case.
     
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  6. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    April 26 2019
    VIDEO.
    Sherman murder case developments - CHCH
    "Former Toronto Police Detective and crime author Desmond Ryan joined us to talk about new developments in the Barry and Honey Sherman case."

    RADIO. @ 6.30 talk concerning how two very busy high profile people, particularly during the holiday season, would not be missed for two days prior to body discovery.
    NEW INFORMATION ON THE HONEY & BARRY SHERMAN MURDER CASE, APRIL 25 2019 - Zoomer Radio AM740
    "The Toronto police homicide squad has a working theory in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case. Detectives are saying they may now know what happened according to one of the lead investigators who said this in court on Wednesday. It’s the first public indication in the 16 months since the billionaire Apotex founder and his wife were strangled that police could be making some progress. The detective also told an Ontario Court of Justice hearing that within a week, police are expecting a “high volume” of electronic records they’ve been trying to get since January. As well, there is at least one person they want to interview who has refused to speak with police. Others they want to speak to may have left the country or simply cannot be located, the investigator told court. Hopefully we’ll learn more soon. Fill-in host Jane Brown speaks with former police officer and security expert Ross McLean to learn more."
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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  7. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Unreal.
     
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  8. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Which part?
     
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  9. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    Is it legal to refuse to speak with LE in Canada? What is LE’s next step to get them to talk?

    So, TPD waited until January 2019 to ask for electronic records, thought to be cell/telephone records? This may explain why they haven’t had any luck solving this case-a little bit slow in knowing the process to follow in a double homicide case?!

    And what is this “working theory” the TPD has come up with? It seems to involve frequent flyer miles. Any ideas?
     
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  10. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see someone claim the $10,000,000.00.

    I have not decided if the adult children put that up thinking they would never have to pay it. Just hoping a tip would be the steppingstone to the right path that would eventually lead to the murderers. Don’t recall the requirements listed on it. Or if the children sincerely wanted to pay it for a resolution to their parents death.

    No doubt they have the money. With three or four children dividing the ten million, it will be a small bite out of their inheritance. (Don’t recall the exact number of children.)
     
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  11. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I believe they have the right to remain silent and to retain counsel.

    What are my rights if I'm detained or arrested? | Steps to Justice | Your guide to law in Ontario

    We don’t know the working theory yet. Hopefully this week we might find out about what ‘entity’ is involved (it could be google, FB, Bell...we don’t know.) The rewards programs we heard about early on, but it might be a new one.

    The killers might have taken the Shermans’ wallets and the TPS were just checking for activity after they were last seen alive. If they got out of the country with the Shermans’ rewards card, I might faint.

    They may have just pinpointed a suspect or suspect(s) recently. Or gathered what they needed to secure a warrant. Long ago the Star reported the judge signed a warrant on a Sunday evening- that sounded unusual, but promising.
     
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  12. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that the Greenspan team can support the informant while the case is being built. It’s worded as ‘up to’ 10M and no mention of information leading to a conviction.

    The way they worded it seems like it’s negotiable. Maybe the one person not talking to police is talking to the Greenspan team.

    A question for the legal minds here: if a person with information that may implicate them of a crime contacts the Greenspan team, can Greenspan become their lawyer and what they tell him falls under client/attorney privilege?

    (Eg: They hacked the realtor’s computer and gave the lock-box combination to the killers.)
     
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  13. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    The whole thing. It's just unbelievable to me. Unbelievable to the point that it's really difficult to imagine that TPS really ARE as incompetent as they SEEM to be.. which many descriptions of their incompetence are given in this interview, and by someone with no bone to pick with them.

    It would make me wonder if, right from the get-go, somehow police had a reason for doing the things they did.. but then that theory is kind of blown out of the water when we hear that normally in Toronto, the *street* is blocked off, even for a much less serious crime, but yet in the Shermans' case, they only taped off the front of the property - which then left them open to someone finding that earring after TPS released the property (which took some 6 weeks!), which *seemed* like it could be Honey's earring - now they can't know if it had been planted by someone, at some time *after* the discovery of their bodies, or if it had been there all along and was simply missed by TPS.

    This interview just brought it all back about how incompetently it *seems* that this investigation was, right from the start. And now we're hearing that they requested piles of records, but only did so in January 2019, more than a year after the fact. Just unreal to me. Like, what the HAY is going on with TPS? Seriously?
     
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  14. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Well if the electric files relate to a suspect, sequential progress brought the investigation to that point and 15 months certainly isn’t an extraordinary amount of time.

    Given TPS has been waiting since January for the unknown electronic records, that’s not the fault of TPS but an example of why investigations can take months and years.

    Just an example - X becomes a suspect. Perhaps it was because of months of celltower, digital or DNA analysis. Police require a separate warrant to search X’s computer and any other electronic device. After forensic examination, which takes time, they discover X has a FB account but the data has been erased. So then they must subpoena FB to determine if what was erased is of any interest.

    JMO
     
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  15. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I had the same reaction. : (

    Early on, Joe Warmington mentioned that he found the scene strange because the area taped off was small and the media was able to get so close.

    The media even had clear shots of the bodies being removed.
     
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  16. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Your question reminded me of something I recently read, regarding lawyers, PIs and privilege, although it doesn’t directly answer it.

    Why should a lawyer and not a client retain the investigator?
    “It is wise for anyone requiring the services of a private investigator, who foresees that the investigation may result in litigation, to first retain a lawyer. The reason for this is the legal concept of litigation privilege. When a lawyer is retained and the lawyer in turn retains the private investigator, all information provided by the private investigator is privileged if not used as evidence. In litigation, private investigators cannot claim a qualified privilege between themselves and their clients.”
    Investigation services - Legal Line
     
  17. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    My best idea is the working theory doesn’t involve frequent flyer miles.
     
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  18. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    For me, you may have partly answered why the team may be led by a lawyer and not Tom Klatt, retired homicide detective.

    He led another suspicious death investigation that I know of. They could afford a lawyer, but they let Klatt lead.

    Although I understand this involves billions, lawsuits and high-stakes industry.

    Why not put the 10M on the anonymous tip line? Greenspan may be able to help you not incriminate yourself.
     
  19. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    You think its someone in the family?
     
  20. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    Greenspan is working for the family, the family are funding the tip line to catch and sucessfully prosecute the murderer(s). I very much doubt that Greenspan would then switch sides to defend the murderer.
     
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