Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I think I posted about this earlier, if an original will is lost, it is possible to apply to have a signed copy of the will validated. If HB did not have a copy with her lawyer, I assume that there is nothing that can be done.

    "If all persons who have an interest in the estate consent to the will being proven in court, the process is relatively straightforward. Affidavit evidence may be filed along with the application, and the court may declare the Will to be valid based solely on the affidavit evidence, which satisfies the four elements above.
    The Ontario Court of Appeal’s decision in Sorkos v. Cowderoy, outlines the legal test for determining whether a lost will can be proven. Specifically, a party wishing to prove the lost will must:

    1. Establish due execution of the will;
    2. Trace possession of the will to the testator’s date of death (and subsequently, if the will was lost after death);
    3. Rebut the presumption that the testator destroyed the will with the intention of revoking it; and
    4. Prove the contents of the lost will."
    In Ontario, rule 75 and rule 76 of the Rules of Civil Procedure set out the process to be followed when proving a lost will.
    https://hullandhull.com/2015/07/what-happens-if-only-a-photocopy-of-the-will-can-be-found/
     
  2. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    This law suit by 44 US states is for unspecified damages, but fines could exceed $2 billion dollars. Current and former executives of top generic drug makers were sued.

    If BS transferred assets to his wife and kids, and sister to protect his assets in the Winter law suit, he could have acted on this ominous US suit coming (he would be aware of the investigation) and transferred huge amounts to Honey (and others). It is legal to do so before a law suit is filed against you if you do it quickly before you're sued. Honey's estate could have been increased by many millions of dollars to protect BS assets.

    If this happened, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did, Honey's lost will seems more relevant. jmo
     
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  3. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    That Apotex employs an entire division of attorneys, reportedly had a succession plan in place but a major shareholder, we are to believe, either didn’t have a will or nobody could find it, would only fit a scenario where Honey was expected to handwrite her own will or buy a do-it-yourself Will kit from a bookstore and nobody knows if she did or not.

    A reporter asking the question, “did Honey have a will?” is not enough proof for me that she didn’t have one. If Donovan was aware of the content of the sealed estate files, he wouldn’t have to seek to have them unsealed.
     
  4. Tighthead

    Tighthead Well-Known Member

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    Why specifically does it not fit a scenario where she had a will drafted by a lawyer and destroyed it?
     
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  5. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone think of reasons why Honey would destroy her will and risk dying intestate? I tend to think if indeed her will is missing, it wasn't her intent. I also find it incredible if a copy is also missing. I can't image her using a will kit or devising a will on her own. If she did, who witnessed it? It has to be witnessed by a non-family member.
     
  6. Tighthead

    Tighthead Well-Known Member

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    This was discussed yesterday.

    She may not have finalized a new will yet, but something in the old one was repugnant to her. For people who don’t have second spouses and blended families, intestacy isn’t terrible. You yourself ask why risk it? Obviously if she was of the opinion that the greater risk was dying with a will she didn’t like. That’s far from unreasonable.

    If a bequest in a will is abhorrent to the testator, in many cases it is advisable to destroy it immediately instead of waiting to see a lawyer, get advice, wait for the will to be drafted, reviewed and executed.

    There has been no determination that there is no copy. Again, as per yesterday, if the will is missing, the presumption is that it was destroyed. A copy is of no use of that presumption can’t be rebutted.
     
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  7. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    rsbm

    You may be correct Tighthead that it is advisable in many cases to destroy your will without a new one, but that isn't the advice listed bleow.

    Risks of Destroying a Will Without Creating a New One
    What if you want to revoke your current will, but aren't sure what a new one should say, or you don't have time to get around to making one right now? Why isn't it enough to tear up the old will or throw it into the fireplace?

    For starters, even if you destroy the original will, there might be copies lying around. Probate courts sometimes accept copies of a will, instead of the original, if there's a good enough reason. For example, say an adult child, angry at being cut out of his father's will, destroys the original document. If the other siblings can produce a copy -- and show evidence that the disinherited sibling is responsible for the disappearance of the original -- a court might accept it. Otherwise, the wishes of the deceased parent would be thwarted.


    The Best Way to Revoke a Will: Create a New One
    To be on the safe side, follow this advice: If you want to revoke your will, don't rely on destroying the original. Make a new one that replaces the old. The new will should explicitly revoke all previous will and set out your new wishes. Then tear up the old will -- and every copy you can get your hands on.



    ://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/revoking-will-35012.html
     
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  8. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Why would Honey destroy a will without having another one in its place? Why wouldn’t she contact her estate lawyer to let them know she’d decided she wanted a new will written up? It’s not as if she knew in advance she was going to be murdered so she had to rip it up very quickly because she changed her mind.

    As the home was listed for sale with a lock box on the door and she was planning to leave for Florida followed by her husband for a month, it’s possible they were hoping for a quick sale and everything of any importance was not kept in the home.

    And just because there was no will last June doesn’t prove there was never no will found. The will that was produced for Barry early on may not have been his last will either as I think it’d be highly unusual if the same lawyer didn’t draw up both wills together.

    Donovan obviously does not have the answer - it’ll be found within the estate files sooner or later.
     
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  9. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure that LE would also like to know if HS may have destroyed her will because she was planning on disinheriting one or more parties
     
  10. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star
     
  11. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Stranger and stranger!
    "On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony.

    The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

    The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans’ bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans’ deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before."
     
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  12. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Just pointing out something Kerry Winter wrote, putting it in the context of what the Star has now reported.

    -The Star and the CBC reported that Barry likely arrived home around 9:00 pm the night of the murders.

    -Kerry Winter said he knows Barry was alive 6-9 hours after Honey was killed.

    -At 9:11 am the morning after they are last seen alive, a man is seen on CCTV cameras for over an hour at the Sherman home. He spends a total of 29 minutes inside the home, going back and forth to his car.

    - at 9:45 am the same morning a uniformed police officer responded to a 911 call at a neighbouring home, although the home owners did not make the call.



    Kerry Winter. July, 2018:

    Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

    29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

    Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star
     
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  13. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    The systems to identify the location of 911 calls appear to me to be very robust and accurate. I and others I work with have mistakenly dialled 911 from my office before, in a large office tower, and then hung up not realizing what we had done. The police call back immediately to verify the call and to ask if it is an emergency. They even knew my name when they called me back to confirm. When this happened a second time a few weeks later to a co-worker, and he didn’t answer the police telephone call, the officers were there at our specific office within 5-10 minutes max. So I don’t think that LE had the wrong house.
    However, if LE responded to a 911 call from the Sherman house I don’t know why an unmarked police vehicle would show up, surely a squad car would have responded. I don’t know if the video of the Sherman house was clear enough to identify it as a squad car, I guess not.
    But i would be interested to know if a police officer responded to a 911 call from the Sherman house and got no response at the door, what procedure would they follow to determine whether there was an emergency inside? Or would they have just left?
     
  14. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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  15. tarabull

    tarabull Life is a puzzle.

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    A telephone company representative says line crossing can occur during tower upgrades???...FWIW
     
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  16. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    In what urgent situations can the police enter my home? | CLEO (Community Legal Education Ontario / Éducation juridique communautaire Ontario)

    Police can enter the home for many reasons including to give aid in an emergency, or to respond to a 911 call.
    So now I have to wonder if police possibly responded to a 911 call at the Sherman house and either 1) didn’t go in the house, or 2) went in and didn’t search the entire house. Perhaps this is the reason thatLE has been so secretive about this whole situation- protecting themselves! Can you imagine what a furor this could cause if it was shown to be true? I hope Donovan can get to the truth here.
     
  17. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    Ann Brocklehurst‏ @AnnB03 3 Std.Vor 3 Stunden
    Ann Brocklehurst retweetet
    Well, the cops know the number of the phone that called 911. And unless it was a burner, they have an explanation for how the call came to pass. So much that’s a mystery to us is not a mystery to the cops
     
  18. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    What if the 911 caller spoofed the number?

    https://www.robokiller.com/blog/local-call/

    Take it a step further: the killer could have spoofed Barry’s cell or home phone number to call 911 making it appear as though he was alive the next morning.

    ETA: The police would have to wait for the warrants and the phone service provider to confirm which device made the 911 call.
     
  19. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Exactly- a burner
     
  20. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    That would be a fiasco.

    That might also answer the ‘no forced entry’ part of the story. If Honey was surprised upon entering the front door the door may have remained unlocked.

    The police officer could then easily access the home if he felt someone might be in danger inside. (How else were they so confident there was no forced entry so early in the investigation.)

    It could have been a police stealth or unmarked car that was at the Sherman home.

    Greenspan said he didn’t know who that man was who spent 29 minutes in the home. If it was a cop, he likely wouldn’t know.

    I’ve noticed that police don’t park on the driveway of a home they’re visiting. They park on the street.

    Could the uniformed officer have visited more than one neighbour’s home? Other neighbours may not have been home or are not talking to the Star.
     

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