Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the other streets accessing Old Colony would have been less thoroughfare.. also just going by what the reporter (who knows to which house the officer attended) reported when saying, "it is likely that a police officer would have passed the car parked in front of the Sherman home that Thursday morning on the way to check out the 911 call."
     
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  2. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    As far as I have witnessed, a jammer prevents the use of cellphones at *all*, so I think the 911 call would have failed to connect at all.
     
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  3. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I missed what the report said. I can't access the the Star and that quote wasn't included in the Hamilton Spectator. Thanks.
     
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  4. ConundrumPonderer

    ConundrumPonderer New Member

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    If they disrupted the call, I don’t think it ever properly connected, as in “911, What is your emergency?”
    The phone itself made the complete dial, (a cell phone is like a two way radio) the signal hits a tower, normally, a signal relay sends the signal through a network of towers, to the receiving number, then sending the reply back the same way. If a jammer was used, I think it was jammed before a relay took place, blocking the frequency to the initiating tower; all the system logged was initial momentary contact. That sent police to an area served by that tower, essentially looking for the caller. If, and I’m happy to admit it’s just “if”, that happened, I think the police would want to pull the records for surrounding devices, looking for sudden brief, unexplained disruption. There are a wide variety of military jammers which can block a narrow area, a large area, as many frequencies as the operator wants, etc. I’d think though the most important thing would be making it a momentary disruption, so you don’t end up with half the street mad at Bell and causing a ruckus.
     
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  5. ConundrumPonderer

    ConundrumPonderer New Member

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    Absolutely, if it was on, but, weird as it is, I don’t think it was on beforehand. Just my odd idea! :)
     
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  6. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Just a wild theory, but.... what if the killer took BS's phone, after all was said and done and staged and finalized.. and made that 911 call from it while either leaving the scene, or even while returning to the street in the morning after.. (I'm assuming it was a 'hang-up' and no words were spoken, otherwise the first thing the dispatcher would have asked for, would have been the location of the caller)

    Police would perhaps have known the number from which the call came in, and the area (which may not have been exact at that time).

    Then the killer just simply drove away with the phone, or possibly even returned it to the home before leaving (although that would have been VERY risky). (Would like to know if both phones were found inside the home.)

    Could that 'visitor' to the S home possibly have been an undercover officer checking out the 911 call, finding nobody home, finding the door unlocked, and perhaps even potentially entering and having a quick look around to find nothing much of notice? (Remember the cleaning lady and 'gardener' person also entered the home on the Friday and seemingly noticed nothing of interest.) Or.. could that be why the man in the car was waiting - possibly to hear back from the realtor as to the code for the lockbox so he could have a look around, and then once he got it, he had a quick look, found nothing (because he never went all the way down to the pool/garage level)?

    Could B's cellphone have been what police were looking for in the sewer grates and/or rooftop?

    Could that be why LE seemed determined that it was M/S in the beginning? Instead of a 'suicide note', they had a 911 hangup which they believed came from B, and they figured he may have been attempting to report his wife dead, but then he went and killed himself too?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  7. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    "Given the location of Old Colony Rd., a dead-end street on the east and accessed off Bayview Ave. (a main thoroughfare) from the west, it is likely that a police officer would have passed the car parked in front of the Sherman home that Thursday morning on the way to check out the 911 call."
     
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  8. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    If that’s so, then the house number of the person who was approached by the police officer about the mysterious 911 call would’ve been higher than #50.
     
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  9. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Deugirtni. I just realized that I thought the article was finished, but you have to scroll down past advertising and the list of prior articles. I hate it when they do that! lol I was wondering why some people were upset that household effects weren't donated. Thanks again. :)
     
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  10. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the info. TPS couldn’t even find an earring, so them figuring this out seems most unlikely!
     
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  11. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  12. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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  13. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I can't help thinking TPS is just not as incompetent as they appear, but yet they are not in a position to explain things to the public. What if........ all along, they have known the killers had attempted to dupe police by staging this thing in a number of ways.. and TPS played along, not wanting to disclose in the earlier days, that they were onto things? I'm just having a real hard time believing TPS could be as incompetent as they appear to be. On the other hand, I seem to have proof that they may just be THAT incompetent, from other cases. Hopefully one day we will find out via a trial.
     
  14. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I just can’t imagine how a hangup 911 call would ever be perceived as an automatic indication of m/s. But then we still don’t really know if TPS ever truly believed that or if it was an unofficial leak or if it was a early investigative tactic considering that’s how the bodies were staged.

    One thing I was thinking regarding the mystery man who went to the S house - I’d be really surprised any one single plainclothes officer in an unmarked vehicle would ever respond to 911 calls alone, whether it was a hangup or not. And as the neighbour had a video it should be obvious if that person was a police officer. Unless he was and this information was held back, as LE did indicate they’d spoken to this person.

    The more tiny bits of unexpected information that are revealed, the greater twisted and confusing this case becomes.
     
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  15. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    A 911 hangup call would not be perceived to be an indication of M/S in and of itself.. but it may have been by the following day, along with other things, such as the staging of the bodies (although I'm still not getting how the appearance of the bodies would lend itself to a M/S theory in the first place).

    I'm not sure if it's protocol for officers to attend 911 hangup calls singularly, or if they must respond with two officers... and further, what if the person at the S house, and the officer at the neighbor's door re the 911 call, were from the same vehicle/call?

    The neighbor's video would not make it obvious if the person was a police officer, if the officer was a plainclothed officer in an unmarked vehicle.

    And yes, I could see this info being 'hold-back' info.
     
  16. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    From what I have read imo the video perhaps wasn’t clear enough to identify the car as being a squad car or a non marked car.
    When the police came to my office for false 911 calls both times 2 police officers attended the call. I’m not sure if this is regular procedure or not, or whether they came in one car or two cars.
     
  17. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    We know that the car and gentleman was at the Sherman home between 9:00 am and 11:00 am Thursday, have the TPS said at what time they had the 911 call?
    I am trying hard to connect the 911 call with the Sherman's deaths. Is it possibly there is no connection. The 911 call was just a mis-dial or a pocket dial? It is not that rare of an occurrence.

    I cannot see any reason the perpetrators would make the call on purpose.

    Now if the 911 call was from Barry or Honey's phone, and it occurred sometime after the Shermans arrived home Wednesday evening, and before the estimated time of deaths, then possibly it was one of the Shermans calling for help as they were aware they were in mortal danger. The TPS could likely identify the source phone in that case.
     
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  18. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I also notice contrary to Donovan’s March story about the mystery man spending a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, Greenspan says it’s inclusive whether this person entered the home or not. Two different scenarios reported was well, was the car parked on the street or in Sherman’s driveway.

    Hangup/abandoned 911 calls can be an indication of a violent and dangerous situation where the perp knocks the phone away from a victim. It’s quite possible two uniformed police officers were attempting to track the location of the 911 call and were working together to canvass houses from one police car parked on the street and for those 29 minutes the “mystery” man was not inside the house at all, instead was checking out other homes, if the video wasn’t clear.

    The hangup 911 call from somewhere near the Sherman residence could’ve been the onset of the murderer playing a sick watch and see game with LE, anxious for the staged ghoulish death scene to be discovered.
     
  19. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    If the footage was clear enough to know it was a man, then it should've been clear enough to identify a TPS squad car. (tps squad car - Google Search)

    I suppose if two officers had shown up together, the footage would have shown two 'men', perhaps one going to the house and one going 'about 10 houses away'.. so scrap that thought that they arrived together in same vehicle..

    I know an officer who used to work with TPS and now works in a much smaller community. He misses TPS, he said because although there may be a lot more calls of a riskier nature, the officers have each others' backs, whereas in the smaller community, they're more on their own and don't have that same level of manpower and protection from one another when approaching an unknown.

    To that end, is it possible an (undercover - perhaps because that's all they had available at that time?) officer was sent to 50 Old Colony to see about a 911 call originating from perhaps B's own cellphone (which address LE may have been able to obtain from the provider), while another officer (not undercover) was sent to see about a 911 call which seemed to have originated from a location a few houses away? Was it really the same police call? Or 2 separate police visits? Or just one police visit, with the other man/vehicle at 50 Old Colony being just a weird coincidence?

    It seems such a coincidence that the two would be happening at same time. H's vehicle was parked in the driveway, so it may have appeared that someone could be at home, but yet nobody answered the door.. not sure what police protocol would be in that case - would they break down the door in a ritzy Toronto neighborhood, or make every attempt to gain entry another way, and seeing the lockbox and realty sign, wait for instruction... which could explain the weird situation of some random man hanging around, going back and forth to his car, and eventually entering.. a few times(?), a few minutes at a time? Maybe it was more of a newer officer, who each time he entered, only went so far, called it in, and was told, well go a bit further?

    Just random thoughts.. sorry, this thing just keeps getting more intriguing..
     
  20. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if the killer made the call, just to get that ball rolling in conjunction with his *own* schedule.. ie.. police show up, find the bodies and this whole Friday scene happens one day earlier, perhaps because he would have been able to attend the scene as a curious spectator, and see what he could see and hear? Perhaps he didn't want to leave it to chance as to how long it would take for this crime to be discovered on its own in due course?
     
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