Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I also notice contrary to Donovan’s March story about the mystery man spending a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, Greenspan says it’s inclusive whether this person entered the home or not. Two different scenarios reported was well, was the car parked on the street or in Sherman’s driveway.

    Hangup/abandoned 911 calls can be an indication of a violent and dangerous situation where the perp knocks the phone away from a victim. It’s quite possible two uniformed police officers were attempting to track the location of the 911 call and were working together to canvass houses from one police car parked on the street and for those 29 minutes the “mystery” man was not inside the house at all, instead was checking out other homes, if the video wasn’t clear.

    The hangup 911 call from somewhere near the Sherman residence could’ve been the onset of the murderer playing a sick watch and see game with LE, anxious for the staged ghoulish death scene to be discovered.
     


  2. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    If the footage was clear enough to know it was a man, then it should've been clear enough to identify a TPS squad car. (tps squad car - Google Search)

    I suppose if two officers had shown up together, the footage would have shown two 'men', perhaps one going to the house and one going 'about 10 houses away'.. so scrap that thought that they arrived together in same vehicle..

    I know an officer who used to work with TPS and now works in a much smaller community. He misses TPS, he said because although there may be a lot more calls of a riskier nature, the officers have each others' backs, whereas in the smaller community, they're more on their own and don't have that same level of manpower and protection from one another when approaching an unknown.

    To that end, is it possible an (undercover - perhaps because that's all they had available at that time?) officer was sent to 50 Old Colony to see about a 911 call originating from perhaps B's own cellphone (which address LE may have been able to obtain from the provider), while another officer (not undercover) was sent to see about a 911 call which seemed to have originated from a location a few houses away? Was it really the same police call? Or 2 separate police visits? Or just one police visit, with the other man/vehicle at 50 Old Colony being just a weird coincidence?

    It seems such a coincidence that the two would be happening at same time. H's vehicle was parked in the driveway, so it may have appeared that someone could be at home, but yet nobody answered the door.. not sure what police protocol would be in that case - would they break down the door in a ritzy Toronto neighborhood, or make every attempt to gain entry another way, and seeing the lockbox and realty sign, wait for instruction... which could explain the weird situation of some random man hanging around, going back and forth to his car, and eventually entering.. a few times(?), a few minutes at a time? Maybe it was more of a newer officer, who each time he entered, only went so far, called it in, and was told, well go a bit further?

    Just random thoughts.. sorry, this thing just keeps getting more intriguing..
     
  3. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if the killer made the call, just to get that ball rolling in conjunction with his *own* schedule.. ie.. police show up, find the bodies and this whole Friday scene happens one day earlier, perhaps because he would have been able to attend the scene as a curious spectator, and see what he could see and hear? Perhaps he didn't want to leave it to chance as to how long it would take for this crime to be discovered on its own in due course?
     
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  4. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I find the 911 call being thought to have come from a home about 10 houses away, a little impossible to believe.. I mean, as an error. Some people very close to me had an experience in summer 2017 way the *heck* up in northern Ontario at a cottagey/rental/vacationey spot.. when their adolescent daughter's iphone inadvertently did that movement on the phone which contacts 911 without actually dialing it.. got caught in a lawnchair or some crazy thing.. and wouldn't you know.. officers show up to question them awhile later.. in way the HAY up there.. some 5 hours north of TO, where one might forgive if locations were not exact. Given this Old Colony Road location is a TO neighborhood right in the city, I can't see there being a mistake.. maybe a 'mistake' in that perhaps the originating phone number did not match the address where it showed the call was emanating from..

    It's also when you think about it.. weird that if police thought a 911 hangup came from a certain home.. they did not ask to have a look through the home. For those of us who have been through an experience of someone dialing 911, police like to make *sure* there isn't someone in there being held against their will or whatever.. I doubt if they would be content with just saying, 'did you make this call', 'no', 'oh ok', and then leave. From what I have experienced and heard from others, they take this stuff very seriously, which they should.
     
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  5. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Did LE actually acknowledge that they did in fact respond to a call in the neighbourhood?
    If they know that they did not respond , would they let that perception continue in order to protect the investigation?
    In other words, did a real cop show up or somebody who was dressed like one?
    speculation, imo.
     
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  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly what I think too. He set the stage so he’s anxious to flip the switch and watch the drama proceed. It’s all about control which devious psychopaths who murder are well known for. Which is also why I think TPS played his game at the onset, because indeed there was something staged to indicate a m/s had occurred such as a fabricated typewritten suicide note.
     
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  7. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    No LE hasn’t responded to the report of the 911 call because of the active, ongoing investigation. But their non-response indicates they believe there may be a connection.
     
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  8. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Given that Donovan is getting this info from the homeowners themselves... AND that the visiting officer's name is actually *known* (the article mentioned that the officer in question was not available - will find it and post below), this story must have credibility. LE has refused to acknowledge anything, AFAIK. Sometimes (all the time?? not sure??) an attending officer will give a card with his name/badge# on it.. (or perhaps only when asked).

    "The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment."

    and

    "The Star presented these two pieces of information to the Toronto Police last week and asked two questions. First, could the police provide information about their investigation of a 911 call from a nearby home that morning, including the time of the call and whether police were certain it came from the homeowners' house down the street. Second, the Star asked if it was possible that the person knocking on the Shermans' door was a police officer in an unmarked car, who was also checking out the 911 call.

    Director of communications Allison Sparkes gave the following response: "As for your questions below, we are unable to comment on any aspects of open, ongoing investigations."

    The Star went back to Sparkes, noting that it would likely be of public interest if the 911 call was related to the Shermans case, and also that, if the person knocking at the Shermans' door was a police officer, that would also be of public interest. Sparkes said, "We can't comment on any aspect of open and ongoing investigations."


    Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  9. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I don’t quite believe the story as its been reported either. Hangup 911 calls can indicate a very dangerous and violent situation if a helpless victim is prevented from completing the call.

    It’s another example of a small morsel being tossed without enough information to really be meaningful. But it’s rather fascinating as it’s also an indication there’s more to this investigation than what meets the eye. And I wouldn’t rule out LE being responsible for encouraging leaks of this nature.
     
  10. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    TPS did not tell the homeowner at what time the 911 call had come in:

    "On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony.


    The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in."


    It's possible this 911 police visit has nothing to do with the S case, however, isn't it odd that police wouldn't have made more of a to-do about having a look around, just to make SURE? Not much good for someone at risk to be able to call 911, prompting a police call, and then have the attending officer just walk away when the homeowner says, 'nope, the call didn't come from here'. That would be pretty devastating! So why didn't they check it out?
     
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  11. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that i)the attending officer was singular and showed up in uniform; and ii)he did not ask to have a look through the home (else presumably this morsel would also have been disclosed). I believe it is protocol to verify, and not just to take the homeowner's word for it that a 911 call didn't come from inside their home.

    I'm not saying I don't believe the story as it has been reported.. I'm saying that the particulars do not add up... such as being mixed up on an address, and not having a look. The particulars lend themselves to more going on than meets the eye, imho.
     
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  12. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’d think there’s times an exact address can’t be pinpointed, for example a burner cellphone hangup call from the street. Depending on the actual phone used I’d be surprised if one exact and precise location is always traceable by 911 technology.
     
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  13. Tighthead

    Tighthead Well-Known Member

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    It must have been a mobile phone, because a landline should be easier to verify. So depending on triangulation etc, it may be hard to get a pinpoint location. I don’t know enough about the tech to understand accuracy, glitches etc.

    Also, if they verified the location via a landline, I would expect a more thorough inspection by the officer like others have said. My understanding is that they are particularly on the lookout for domestic incidents, and will usually try to isolate the woman to confirm there is no issue.

    The transposition of 915/950 seems possible. The information likely went through a couple of people before the officer was notified.

    Maybe the call is just a coincidence, but it seems unlikely.
     
  14. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that it was a cellphone as Rogers and Bell had no record of the 911 call. So unless this was a burner phone, I'd guess LE knows exactly who made the call. I'm wondering if the mystery man dialled 911 but then thought better of it?
     
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  15. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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  16. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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  17. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Crime specialist Steve Ryan reported that citing sources.

    I watched him on CP24 on the day of the TPS news conference announcing the Shermans were murdered. IMO, he seemed flustered. His sources until that point told him it was a m/s.

    Can anyone find that video of him that day? I tried, but could not. Or does anyone remember him saying that he was surprised at the announcement they were murdered?
     
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  18. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Looking for it, but came across this.. which was from early days, but in which he stated that at the end of it all, he believed they'd come to a finding of M/S.

    Apotex founder and wife died of neck compression: Police
     
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  19. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  20. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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