Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I find the 911 call being thought to have come from a home about 10 houses away, a little impossible to believe.. I mean, as an error. Some people very close to me had an experience in summer 2017 way the *heck* up in northern Ontario at a cottagey/rental/vacationey spot.. when their adolescent daughter's iphone inadvertently did that movement on the phone which contacts 911 without actually dialing it.. got caught in a lawnchair or some crazy thing.. and wouldn't you know.. officers show up to question them awhile later.. in way the HAY up there.. some 5 hours north of TO, where one might forgive if locations were not exact. Given this Old Colony Road location is a TO neighborhood right in the city, I can't see there being a mistake.. maybe a 'mistake' in that perhaps the originating phone number did not match the address where it showed the call was emanating from..

    It's also when you think about it.. weird that if police thought a 911 hangup came from a certain home.. they did not ask to have a look through the home. For those of us who have been through an experience of someone dialing 911, police like to make *sure* there isn't someone in there being held against their will or whatever.. I doubt if they would be content with just saying, 'did you make this call', 'no', 'oh ok', and then leave. From what I have experienced and heard from others, they take this stuff very seriously, which they should.
     
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  2. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Did LE actually acknowledge that they did in fact respond to a call in the neighbourhood?
    If they know that they did not respond , would they let that perception continue in order to protect the investigation?
    In other words, did a real cop show up or somebody who was dressed like one?
    speculation, imo.
     
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  3. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly what I think too. He set the stage so he’s anxious to flip the switch and watch the drama proceed. It’s all about control which devious psychopaths who murder are well known for. Which is also why I think TPS played his game at the onset, because indeed there was something staged to indicate a m/s had occurred such as a fabricated typewritten suicide note.
     
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  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    No LE hasn’t responded to the report of the 911 call because of the active, ongoing investigation. But their non-response indicates they believe there may be a connection.
     
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  5. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Given that Donovan is getting this info from the homeowners themselves... AND that the visiting officer's name is actually *known* (the article mentioned that the officer in question was not available - will find it and post below), this story must have credibility. LE has refused to acknowledge anything, AFAIK. Sometimes (all the time?? not sure??) an attending officer will give a card with his name/badge# on it.. (or perhaps only when asked).

    "The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment."

    and

    "The Star presented these two pieces of information to the Toronto Police last week and asked two questions. First, could the police provide information about their investigation of a 911 call from a nearby home that morning, including the time of the call and whether police were certain it came from the homeowners' house down the street. Second, the Star asked if it was possible that the person knocking on the Shermans' door was a police officer in an unmarked car, who was also checking out the 911 call.

    Director of communications Allison Sparkes gave the following response: "As for your questions below, we are unable to comment on any aspects of open, ongoing investigations."

    The Star went back to Sparkes, noting that it would likely be of public interest if the 911 call was related to the Shermans case, and also that, if the person knocking at the Shermans' door was a police officer, that would also be of public interest. Sparkes said, "We can't comment on any aspect of open and ongoing investigations."


    Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I don’t quite believe the story as its been reported either. Hangup 911 calls can indicate a very dangerous and violent situation if a helpless victim is prevented from completing the call.

    It’s another example of a small morsel being tossed without enough information to really be meaningful. But it’s rather fascinating as it’s also an indication there’s more to this investigation than what meets the eye. And I wouldn’t rule out LE being responsible for encouraging leaks of this nature.
     
  7. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    TPS did not tell the homeowner at what time the 911 call had come in:

    "On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony.


    The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in."


    It's possible this 911 police visit has nothing to do with the S case, however, isn't it odd that police wouldn't have made more of a to-do about having a look around, just to make SURE? Not much good for someone at risk to be able to call 911, prompting a police call, and then have the attending officer just walk away when the homeowner says, 'nope, the call didn't come from here'. That would be pretty devastating! So why didn't they check it out?
     
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  8. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that i)the attending officer was singular and showed up in uniform; and ii)he did not ask to have a look through the home (else presumably this morsel would also have been disclosed). I believe it is protocol to verify, and not just to take the homeowner's word for it that a 911 call didn't come from inside their home.

    I'm not saying I don't believe the story as it has been reported.. I'm saying that the particulars do not add up... such as being mixed up on an address, and not having a look. The particulars lend themselves to more going on than meets the eye, imho.
     
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  9. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’d think there’s times an exact address can’t be pinpointed, for example a burner cellphone hangup call from the street. Depending on the actual phone used I’d be surprised if one exact and precise location is always traceable by 911 technology.
     
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  10. Tighthead

    Tighthead Well-Known Member

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    It must have been a mobile phone, because a landline should be easier to verify. So depending on triangulation etc, it may be hard to get a pinpoint location. I don’t know enough about the tech to understand accuracy, glitches etc.

    Also, if they verified the location via a landline, I would expect a more thorough inspection by the officer like others have said. My understanding is that they are particularly on the lookout for domestic incidents, and will usually try to isolate the woman to confirm there is no issue.

    The transposition of 915/950 seems possible. The information likely went through a couple of people before the officer was notified.

    Maybe the call is just a coincidence, but it seems unlikely.
     
  11. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that it was a cellphone as Rogers and Bell had no record of the 911 call. So unless this was a burner phone, I'd guess LE knows exactly who made the call. I'm wondering if the mystery man dialled 911 but then thought better of it?
     
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  12. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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  13. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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  14. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Crime specialist Steve Ryan reported that citing sources.

    I watched him on CP24 on the day of the TPS news conference announcing the Shermans were murdered. IMO, he seemed flustered. His sources until that point told him it was a m/s.

    Can anyone find that video of him that day? I tried, but could not. Or does anyone remember him saying that he was surprised at the announcement they were murdered?
     
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  15. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Looking for it, but came across this.. which was from early days, but in which he stated that at the end of it all, he believed they'd come to a finding of M/S.

    Apotex founder and wife died of neck compression: Police
     
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  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  17. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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  18. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Haha, at the end, KD thanks 'Peter', and I thought to myself, 'omg, he called John Oakley, Peter!'.. had to go back to the beginning to see that 'Peter Sherman' was doing this interview while JO was away.
     
  19. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    May 22 2019
    VIDEO.
    Apotex exploring sale options: Bloomberg
    "Canadian drugmaker Apotex is reportedly exploring sale options after some investors and major pharmaceutical companies expressed interest. The company is controlled by the family of late founder and CEO Barry Sherman, who was found dead along with his wife in their Toronto mansion in 2017. Bloomberg News' Drew Armstrong reports."
     
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  20. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I apologize for writing a long post. After googling Steve Ryan, I found some of his prior statements more relevant when I reflect back on what he said.

    Ryan is a retired Toronto Det.Sgt. homicide investigator who retired in the summer of 2017 after a 30 year career, when offered the crime specialist position at CP24 News. It is reasonable to think that he has a reliable source(s) in the TPS homicide division, and that m/s was the information he had been given.

    Ryan said the 911 call is not linked to the Sherman case, and noted his source as someone "close to the investigation". I trust that his info is coming from TPS.

    He reported back in the Dec. 17/17 CP24 news video that TPS will do a thorough investigation, but at the end of the day, we'll find this a murder-suicide. Pretty confident in his source.

    Per Lexiintoronto, Ryan was visibly flustered at the TPS presser when they announced a targeted double murder decision. I'm sure he was per his quote in the CTV article listed below which was made only the day before after Greenspan's investigation publicly announced that it was a double murder. Ryan was so confident in his sources that it was still a m/s,despite Greenspan's investigation, he was quoted in the Jan. 20 CTV article:

    "Former homicide detective Steve Ryan said that he believes homicide detectives would let the public know if they had any reason to suspect foul play.
    “They never sit on that information,” he said."


    He may or may not have changed his mind on m/s, but he and Star reporter Kevin Donovan seem to have had the same feedback from their TPS sources. The difference noted in the two reporters is Donovan is critical of TPS and Ryan hasn't been.

    Steve Ryan obviously believed his source(s) as credible. (I tend to think they were). His following statement to CTV News on Jan. 9/18 after Greenspan accused TPS of misleading the public because of a m/s mind set is relevant imo in answering our questions of how/why did LE think it was m/s immediately after seeing the crime scene.

    "Steve Ryan, another former TPS homicide detective and ex-colleague of Klatt’s, says police are trying to do a thorough job in the case and are simply trying to get all the facts.

    “There must have been compelling evidence in that home for them to make that announcement,” Ryan said of the early statements in the case, during an interview with CP24 on Tuesday. “There’s no other reason to do it.”

    I trust that TPS is not incompetent and that compelling evidence from the crime scene did lead them to consider this a m/s investigation. For me, at least I now feel that this is true, and that it is also true that LE continued to treat the case as a m/s until the second autopsy results were made public six weeks later.

    Based on what we've heard of delayed questioning of witnesses at the home, reviewing surveillance videos, etc.,I'm not sure that TPS changed from a m/s theory until months after their news presser, if in fact they have. jmo

    ETA links to Steve Ryan's statements.
    Sherman lawyer suggests police misled public
    Sherman family's private investigators believe couple was murdered: report

    A Q&A with CP24 Crime Specialist Steve Ryan

    Toronto homicide cop retires after 30 years
     

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