Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Barry evidently liked to invest in or partner with those who could be termed mavericks, or those wanting to shake up industries or change the status quo. After all, he built apotex by battling large pharma. He probably felt FDA, in spite of some faults, was such a person, trying to battle established companies or shaking up industries by starting new ventures and/or swimming against the established current so to speak.

    It’s hard for most of us to imagine, but the millions of dollars that Barry put at risk with FDA and others wasn’t material to Barry, given his overall wealth.
     
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  2. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    When you have money like Barry you don't mind spending some of it on things that make you happy. Barry obviously liked Frank, so investing in his businesses is a sure fire way to keep a friend.

    Rich people will gladly pay your way if you provide then with some sort of happiness. Back in my partying days I ended up in a West Palm Beach mansion, living in the guest house, simply because the owner enjoyed partying with myself and my friend. What I quickly came to realize is that these overly rich folks were great at making money, but they really had a hard time enjoying it. They had massive yachts, and fancy cars, but for the most part they sat around their mansions and did nothing. After all, you can't really take a yacht out by yourself, so having company gave them an excuse to show of their expensive toys and to party like they were in their 20s again. I know Barry is a different breed and that he didn't indulge in expensive toys, but I do think he enjoyed Frank's companionship. I also think he enjoyed the movie making process, being an insider. That alone was likely worth the money invested.
     
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  3. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  4. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim | The Star

    This article from Donovan in 2018 states that the Sherman’s died from being strangled by the belts, then were hung from the railing with the belts.
    I am sure I have read elsewhere that they were strangled by something other than the belts before being tied to the railing with the belts.
    Does anyone recall this, and I wonder why the discrepancy?
     
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  5. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is integral to the case? imo, speculation, bbm.
    New details in billionaire's murder
    "For weeks after the Shermans were found, we heard from police sources the working theory was murder suicide.

    Then on January 26th investigators revealed both Barry and Honey had been murdered.

    How did we get from murder suicide to double murder?

    The new information in the Star spells it out.

    Autopsies were done the day after the Shermans were found. According to the Star, sources insist that the pathologist doing the work found signs that the deaths could be a case of double murder. The doctor did not make that ruling and it's unclear why.

    Days later another pathologist hired by the family did a second autopsy and based on the evidence, he decided the Sherman's wrists had been bound by rope or plastic and they weren't strangled by the belts tied around their neck. They’d been strangled with something else.

    It took almost a month for police to interview the man who did the second autopsy and that was only after his double murder conclusion had been reported in the media

    A week after that story came out police announced they believed this was a case of double murder."
    Barry and Honey Sherman’s deaths investigated by private experts as ‘contract killing’: report
    “There is evidence there were markings on the wrist as if each of their hands were bound together … but there were no ties or ropes found at the scene.”
     
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  6. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Bbm

    Here’s one reference, I know there are others.

    “The photos showed another clue inconsistent with a suicide, these people said: The belt loop around Mr. Sherman’s neck didn’t appear to extend far enough from the railing to provide the force he would need to kill himself....

    ...David Chiasson, completed his own autopsies of the Shermans.

    After examining Mr. Sherman, the pathologist questioned whether the belt found on his neck was the cause of his death, people familiar with the matter said. Dr. Chiasson also spotted marks on their wrists that suggested their hands been had been tied.”
    After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

    ETA: should have known dotr would find it!
     
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  7. Mikos34

    Mikos34 Member

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    A clear case of double murder in 2017 leads to a quick arrest.

    Vancouver homicide detectives looking for new information in Marpole double murder

    Vancouver September 26, 2017 Richard Jones and Dianna Mah-Jones are found dead. Within a week the public is asked for any information. Dashcam and security footage is requested. Suspect is arrested within a few months. The trial is has just started this week for murder.

    The suspect was seen on camera near the house.

    "Video recorded in the neighbourhood shows Kam “looking intently” as he walked in the general direction of, and a few blocks away from, the Jones residence on the evening of the slayings, said Mulligan.

    Man who allegedly murdered Marpole couple wanted to kill 'someone': Crown

    In the Sherman case we heard Susan Gomes talk about all the video the police had acquired. She said they have 4 terabytes of video surveillance seized. So where's the video of the killers/the killers vehicle etc.?
     
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  8. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    Very good question. We know that a neighbour had a camera that was pointed at the Sherman home and captured the mystery man going in and out of the house, so surely that camera captured something? TPS have never been shy about releasing video captures to the public in an attempt to identify a vehicle or person, but in this case there is nothing. But the camera was pointed at the house the entire time! Everything about this case leaves me shaking my head.
     
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  9. Mikos34

    Mikos34 Member

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    I haven't posted in months so I should have explained that I feel this is another strong sign that there wasn't anyone in the house besides the Sherman's that Wednesday night.

    I don't understand why Kevin Donovan of the Toronto Star used notes from a neighbor who had the video and then spoke with Brian Greenspan and didn't demand to get to view the video himself before writing about it. Greenspan says it's unclear if anyone went into the house. I would bet on the person being from the seller's real estate team or a maid. They probably were supposed to meet one of the Sherman's but no one answered. That's probably why they went back and forth to the house. There was a house showing the next day. I bet everyone already knows who it is. Greenspan can cleverly claim he doesn't want to mess with the investigation as a means of keeping the video private.

    The main issue with the video which has surely been discussed before is that if they have a video of Thursday it follows that they have a video of Wednesday's activity at the house. The video apparently runs for a week straight and then begins taping over itself. I bet there's nothing on it. Thus, Greenspan leaked the news of the Thursday video to Donovan instead of demanding the Wednesday video footage be released because there's nothing to see. If Greenspan thought it was important then why is the first time it's reported on from Kevin Donovan and not from a news conference he called?

    Finally, we are supposed to believe that a team of killers entered the house with no video/forensic evidence, but at the same time believe it could be important that someone parked in front of the house in broad daylight and the Thursday visitor could have some importance to the case. Ninjas by night and klutzes in broad daylight working on the same team? The Thursday visitor is a likely red herring while the Wednesday visitors don't seem to actually exist.
     
  10. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    A couple of comments
    1. The video is from across the street, and killers could have easily entered the home through the rear by accessing the backyard from the next street behind the house. Haven’t heard about any video obtained from houses behind the Sherman’s house
    2. I’m not sure if the video would pick up intruders at the front of the house as it was dark when HS first arrived home
    3. I agree, the thurs visitor has nothing to do with the deaths of the Sherman’s, and LE has already stated IIRC that they know who it was
    4. I agree, the video shows nothing for Wednesday, otherwise the neighbour would have mentioned it to Donovan or the press IMO, instead of just mentioning the wed visitor.
    5. I believe the neighbour reported the existence of the tape to Donovan/the press because they were of the view that LE wasn’t acting on the video evidence they knew they had turned over to LE. Imo
     
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  11. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    If the intruders wore head coverings which would not stand out, they would be impossible to identify. Bulky coats, big boots
     
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  12. Mikos34

    Mikos34 Member

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    If people wore head coverings at least they could be identified as people although we couldn't recognize exactly who it was.

    There was snow on the ground that week. It's theoretically possible people could enter through a neighbor's yard. That would mean footprints in the snow if snow is on the ground. It would mean footprints in the dirt if no snow was on the ground. It would mean tracked in dirt and snow at the access point. None of this was apparently found. Remember the house was up for sale. None of the people in the house that Friday saw anything unusual until they got to the pool area.. Certainly a house cleaner or real estate agent would notice a particularly dirty floor in an otherwise spotless mansion.

    This map below gives a look at the neighboring properties. Fences and trees all around the property. The Sherman property is nearly all paved over. Since no footprints apparently found I consider the front door with the lockbox to be the only possible point of entry due to snow removal on sidewalks which would allow for no footprints. (I'm assuming no footprints on sidewalks but maybe the forensics would find them).
    Map of 50 Old Colony Road, North York, Toronto, ON M2L 2K1

    It was indeed dark but the street is lit at a minimum and the house may have had outdoor and/or indoor lights on. People on the street would certainly be visible on some camera or a car would. They have to get there somehow. Every targeted killing I've heard of in the last few years features a gunman fleeing the scene in a car. Killers don't kill and then wait for the bus.

    Just compare the Vancouver crime to the Toronto one. In one the police never ask the public to help out. In Toronto they collect video but don't release it while in Vancouver the police appeal to the public to bring us any video you have. In Vancouver it's "please public help us out" while in Toronto we get Susan Gomes "I'm not telling the public anything".
     
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  13. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    A head covering would be normal in that weather.

    We don’t know if dirt was found in the house.

    Footprints would be long gone two days later.

    I think any snow came and was gone? Or hard pack does not retain footprints
     
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  14. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Also, we don’t know if LE found footprints, either in the snow or in the house. Or the cleaners or killers cleaned up any mess inside the house
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  15. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    I certainly agree with your comments about Toronto LE, I guess they must have their reasons, but I don’t get it.
     
  16. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    In looking st the street view version of the map that Mikos34 posted (thank you) (where you drag the yellow icon into the map) I an struck by a couple of things
    1) lots of vegetation in front of the house and up the sides of the driveway. While some of the leaves would have been gone in winter, there is still lots of potential cover for criminals to hide in or approach from
    2) there is quite a bit of interlocking paving stone at the end of the driveway near the road - 2 sections of different stone, maybe 10-15 feet in length. Lots of brick joints and crevasses. It seems unlikely to me that a small earring could have washed all the way down the driveway and then through these 2 sections of brick without getting caught up in one of the joints. But the earring was found evidently on the edge of the street where it meets the driveway.
    Maybe it “rode” the snow to the street, or maybe the police accidentally moved it, that’s possible. But it remains a mystery to me how, if it wasn’t planted, how LE failed to detect it when they scoured the property with metal detectors. One wonders what else they may have missed.
     
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  17. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Canadian drugmaker Apotex issues recall of generic Zantac in U.S. over carcinogen fears
    September 26, 2019 rbbm.
    "Canadian drugmaker Apotex Inc. is recalling its over-the-counter generic Zantac tablets made for Walgreens Boots Alliance Inc., Walmart Inc. and Rite Aid Corp., the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said in a statement Thursday. France’s drug safety regulator, the Agence Nationale de Sécurité du Médicament, said in a statement dated Wednesday that it ordered a recall of all brand-name and generic Zantac available in pharmacies.

    European and U.S. health officials said earlier this month they are looking into how the drugs came to be contaminated. Zantac and its generic equivalents are used by millions of people, including pregnant women and infants, to treat gastrointestinal disorders and discomfort. Recalls or distribution halts have also been announced by multiple manufacturers."
    "...The recalled medicine is made with an active ingredient from two India-based suppliers..."
     
  18. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    1. The video is from across the street, and killers could have easily entered the home through the rear by accessing the backyard from the next street behind the house. Haven’t heard about any video obtained from houses behind the Sherman’s house

    First off, there were no signs of forced entry, so it would have been impossible to enter through the rear. I believe the double murder believers came up with two plausible theories about how the intruders entered, using the lock box key, or by overpowering either Barry or Honey. Both these scenarios require entry from the front. Also, why would the intruders enter from the rear? There is jus as much of a possibility that they would be recorded on an adjacent street as they would be right in front of the Sherman residence. Sure they could have scoped the neighbourhood looking for cameras, but that activity would most certainly have been recorded.

    Video evidence does not have to be of the best quality to provide useful information. Even in the dark, cars can be identified by headlights, and you might be able to even be able to see how many intruders their were. One of the videos shown in the Millard trial showed nothing but taillights. It still provided valuable information.
     
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  19. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    The problem here on websleuths is that we can only comment on information that has been published in MSM. As you know, LE has said absolutely nothing about the case, so nearly all the information out there is coming from Greenspan and his team who are nothing more that a PR team, hired to discourage any thoughts about murder/suicide. Personally I am not confident in the accuracy of any of Greenspan's information.
     
  20. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    As I said in the above post, I do not trust the source of much of the information we have in this case. Like you I try to use common sense when analyzing this case, and common sense tells me that there is something very odd going on here.
     
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