Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    It seems there are many possibilities.. such as they came in through the back where there were no neighboring cameras? Or they arrived inside H's car with her (or B's car for that matter)? Or police actually might *have* footage, but they're not announcing it and have possibly asked any neighbors to keep a lid on it if they want to see this solved? Or someone hid out in the home's basement for a couple of days waiting? It seems footage from say Monday or whatever, was not even looked at by the neighbor, I believe I read that neighbor hadn't even looked at the Wed evening?
     
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  2. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Supposedly based soley on H's facial injuries. Or so they might have us believe?
     
  3. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Or.. a male with whatever kind of mental illness would engulf that person with thoughts of setting such a stage, and wanting it to be 'perfect' and to ensure that BS was able to 'see' what happened to him. Would mean someone with a heckuva lot of time to get this job done without fear of being interrupted, I would think.
     
  4. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    It was said in Donovan's book that HS opposed giving so freely to the couple's children. It seemed it was BS that was the giver to the kids, and the holder of that authority. Had HS been left holding the bag, so to speak, who knows what she may have ended up doing with it, in contrast to BS apparently leaving everything to his 4 kids?
     
  5. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    I think the glasses are a non issue. I can shake my head as hard as I can and my reading glasses don't move. IMO, he had them on, never took them off, and they simply didn't need to be adjusted.
     
  6. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it also mentioned in the book that HS often left the side door unlocked? Or perhaps the killers had a key- they could have gotten it several ways.
     
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  7. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Yes, no problem apparently getting *into* the home, but how to get in without any neighboring cameras recording it, is more the question, I think? The door was apparently always left open.

    It was also said in the book that police had not checked the lockbox to see if the housekey was even still inside - not until the realtor called TPS (I'm not sure at what point in time) to ask if the key was still in it, and was told they didn't know, at which time they went to check on it.

    One might assume that looking to see if a partial print might be available on any such key and taking any said possible partial print from any such key may have been part of TPS's due diligence? But no? Another instance of police showing their apparent tunnel-vision that they were either convinced it was a M/S; or they were convinced they knew 'whodunnit', and perhaps that person didn't require the lockbox key, and that person's prints would not be unusual to be found within the home, and it would not be unusual for cameras to record footage of such person visiting the home, etc?
     
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  8. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    I learned a long time ago that "locks only keep honest people out", if the door(s) were left unlocked it would be irrelevant to a determined person(s).

    The TPS has a history of keeping a lot of information away from the public. If they have videos that show the likely assailants coming and going, they are not likely to announce that publicly. In the Bruce MacArthur case, they had no intention of arresting Bruce, they were just maintaining surveillance, until they realised that Bruce was likely in the process of committing another murder.

    Regarding cameras, I do not know, but how long do these home cameras keep the images? I have heard some delete the video automatically after 24 or 48 hours. Do some keep the record for weeks or longer?
     
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  9. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I think (but not sure) it may be a setting which the homeowner can choose, as to how long video is kept or what kind of a rewrite loop it's on.. but as far as the neighbor across the street whose camera caught the man in the car going into the house a few times, I believe it was said theirs would overwrite after a week/7 days.
     
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  10. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I thought about the killer/s possibly being in Honey's car, too, but even if careful in the extreme to not leave behind any forensic evidence, wouldn't you think a strange hair or fiber, at the least, would have been found?
    I've thought for a long time that Honey was killed, or certainly subdued, before Barry returned home and that's why I don't think the perp would have ridden home with him.
     
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  11. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    What if fibers and hairs were found in H's vehicle, but it was not strange for it to have been found inside her vehicle? ie someone who is known to have been in the vehicle with her before. Same with the house.
     
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  12. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Fibers and forensics are more often for confirming a suspect rather than identifying them. The great majority of people don't have a profile on file, so even if you have blood, semen, saliva, hairs or even fingerprints, it means nothing unless you can match it up to someone. In cases where the suspect is extremely close, you would expect there to be some sort of forensic evidence to be there.
     
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  13. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Seems odd though, that TPS wasn't calling in the people known to have been inside the home in the days preceding the discovery of the bodies, in order to rule them out, ie gardener, cleaner, realtor, homebuyer clients, family members(?). Seems like TPS may have had some kind of tunnel-vision going on, whether it was specifically geared toward M/S, or a person they may have suspected from the beginning, but whom they wanted to keep thinking they were focusing on M/S. Either way, it seems like lack of due diligence.
     
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  14. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    It was HS' habit, to dress her husband head to toe (choosing clothing for him) and to watch him, ie. sitting in an interview in a wrong (less upright) posture, and to criticize him. So, I thought, the only one, who would have cared for him wearing his glasses neatly also after death, would be HS.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  15. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    KW could confirm it, AFAIK, regarding himself and BS' "banking" and HS' reaction. ;)
     
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  16. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

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    Interesting observation! It could, of course, also be a post-mortem criticism of HS and her seemingly controlling nature from a killer who knew this first-hand.
     
  17. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

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    Tunnel vision and/ or, as KD points out in the book, their resources were spread too thin at the time as they were focussed on the MacArthur investigation. But do we know for a fact they did not follow these steps given how much of what they were doing (or not doing) is still not available?
     
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  18. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I think we do know 'for a fact' - because I believe those people have been quoted in MSM as verifying that. ie the Asian realtor confirmed that he hadn't been fingerprinted/shoes hadn't been taken, weeks later; the neighbor with the footage confirmed that police weren't in a rush to obtain that footage even though they'd been told it would be rewritten. Those are independent statements from others. As well, Donovan says in his book that others also were not fingerprinted and such, such as the cleaner, gardener, etc. But even if we don't take Donovan's word for it, which we really have no reason NOT to, that info *has* been verified by those others at least.

    And sure, maybe they were spread way too thin due to the McArthur case, but that is no reason to lead the public to believe certain things just because they didn't have the resources to get around to investigating the situation fully?
     
  19. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    There is a moment in the video where she affectionately tucks in his tie. At the 3:26 mark of the video is where she makes the comment mentioned above:



    @ldlager mentioned the attention to detail in the staging seems feminine. I agree. Feminine, affectionate or respectful, despite what happened.

    It’s very intimate to get that close to a body and position the legs and glasses, IMO.

    Would a hit man take note of the glasses and their importance if they had come off?

    Off topic, but look at the body language in this still:

    E36C659E-A8D9-4546-B902-22C9912037E9.jpeg

    It may just be her resting facial expression, but she looks concerned or unhappy, in my view.
     
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  20. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you Lexi. I’m no expert, but her left fist is clenched and her leg is crossed away from him for most of the video. Imo she also comes across as quite controlling. Imo
     

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