Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

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MistyWaters said:
I’m not sure what’s the point of this. It is true a non-profit organization is not the same as a registered charity. A non-profit organization isn’t registered and cannot issue tax receipts although money is collected to run the organization. Your link gives various examples.

Registered charities are always “non-profit” by virtue of the definition of the word “charity”. Honey and Barry Sherman Legacy Foundation is a registered charity, aka non-profit (my earlier link).
Click to expand...

In order for a private Foundation to become a registered charity, must set up a non-profit organization first; Once this is done it must separately apply to CRA to be a registered charity (thus have the ability to issue tax receipts) . This process can take months if not 1+ year depending on the backlog.
It’s possible they are just awaiting reply from CRA to secure their charitable status.
 
MistyWaters said:
I’m not sure what’s the point of this. It is true a non-profit organization is not the same as a registered charity. A non-profit organization isn’t registered and cannot issue tax receipts although money is collected to run the organization. Your link gives various examples.

Registered charities are always “non-profit” by virtue of the definition of the word “charity”. Honey and Barry Sherman Legacy Foundation is a registered charity, aka non-profit (my earlier link).
Click to expand...

In order for a private Foundation to become a registered charity, must set up a non-profit organization first; Once this is done it must separately apply to CRA to be a registered charity (thus have the ability to issue tax receipts) . This process can take months if not 1+ year depending on the backlog.
It’s possible they are just awaiting reply from CRA to secure their charitable status.
 
Here in the US, charities & foundations are two types of non-profits that generally do different things. Charities do work in support of a cause, such as by feeding the poor. Foundations give money to charities to support their work.
 
Inaccuracy, Phrasing in Sun Article?
MistyWaters said:
... the topic of the linked Sun report was the possibility the children would’ve been denied an inheritance.... “In the Sherman’s case, it would mean that the bulk of their estimated $5-billion estate would go The Giving Pledge and not to family members or designated beneficiaries as laid out in a last will and testament.”
WARMINGTON: Did billionaire Shermans want to leave wealth to Bill Gates' charity? | Toronto Sun
Click to expand...
@MistyWaters sbm Not directing this at you, but jumping off your post (thank you very much:)) to highlight a couple points in Dec 20, 2019 article.
1. Per article,* by making a pledge, Sherman's $$$ would go to the Giving Pledge, but per GP website, each person pledging chooses causes and charities individually; their $$$ is not donated to Gates' designated charity.*
By spending a few minutes on Google, reporter could have learned that ^ & given accurate info. Apparently did not.

From article: "The initiative is designed to allow billionaires have their vast estates used to support projects they care about after their deaths."
2a. "Allow"? Is article suggesting, absent the Giving Pledge, Canadian billionaires are prohibited from supporting charities? IANACL (or even Canadian), but I doubt Canadian law prohibits this type of philanthropy. Seems
reporter meant to write encourage, rather than allow.
2b. "After their deaths"? Like in a will, yes, maybe. Or a testamentary trust, yes. Or while alive, thru an inter-vivos gift, a trust, maybe a charitable income trust or a charitable remainder trust.
Seems reporter chose overly narrow phrasing, which gives incomplete picture. my2cts.

Just saying as we read, we should bear in mind even MSM reporting may be less than 100% accurate or factual, and may have discrepancies of which reporters are unaware. Bless 'em, they are often, maybe always, on tight deadline, and just like any one of us, they do not know everything.

[[ Walks away from laptop, puts scissors back in drawer.;) Enough hair-splitting for today. :D ]]
_______________________________________________

* From article: "The initiative is designed to allow billionaires have their vast estates used to support projects they care about after their deaths. In the Sherman’s case, it would mean that the bulk of their estimated $5-billion estate would go The Giving Pledge and not to family members or designated beneficiaries as laid out in a last will and testament." bbm
From givingpledge.org: "Signatories pursue their philanthropy independently and give to a wide range of issues and causes. The Giving Pledge is not an oversight organization, nor is it a pooled fund. The Giving Pledge does not distribute funds, grants, or donations in any form."
See also The Giving Pledge - Wikipedia
 
al66pine said:
Inaccuracy, Phrasing in Sun Article?
@MistyWaters sbm Not directing this at you, but jumping off your post (thank you very much:)) to highlight a couple points in Dec 20, 2019 article.
1. Per article,* by making a pledge, Sherman's $$$ would go to the Giving Pledge, but per GP website, each person pledging chooses causes and charities individually; their $$$ is not donated to Gates' designated charity.*
By spending a few minutes on Google, reporter could have learned that ^ & given accurate info. Apparently did not.

From article: "The initiative is designed to allow billionaires have their vast estates used to support projects they care about after their deaths."
2a. "Allow"? Is article suggesting, absent the Giving Pledge, Canadian billionaires are prohibited from supporting charities? IANACL (or even Canadian), but I doubt Canadian law prohibits this type of philanthropy. Seems
reporter meant to write encourage, rather than allow.
2b. "After their deaths"? Like in a will, yes, maybe. Or a testamentary trust, yes. Or while alive, thru an inter-vivos gift, a trust, maybe a charitable income trust or a charitable remainder trust.
Seems reporter chose overly narrow phrasing, which gives incomplete picture. my2cts.

Just saying as we read, we should bear in mind even MSM reporting may be less than 100% accurate or factual, and may have discrepancies of which reporters are unaware. Bless 'em, they are often, maybe always, on tight deadline, and just like any one of us, they do not know everything.

[[ Walks away from laptop, puts scissors back in drawer.;) Enough hair-splitting for today. :D ]]
_______________________________________________

* From article: "The initiative is designed to allow billionaires have their vast estates used to support projects they care about after their deaths. In the Sherman’s case, it would mean that the bulk of their estimated $5-billion estate would go The Giving Pledge and not to family members or designated beneficiaries as laid out in a last will and testament." bbm
From givingpledge.org: "Signatories pursue their philanthropy independently and give to a wide range of issues and causes. The Giving Pledge is not an oversight organization, nor is it a pooled fund. The Giving Pledge does not distribute funds, grants, or donations in any form."
See also The Giving Pledge - Wikipedia
Click to expand...
Thanks - I agree, the Shermans had their own foundation, which they'd used for many generous donations already, such as to hospitals, the art gallery, and Jewish causes. Why would they need or want to get involved with Bill Gates?

Also, I would point out that although the Toronto Sun calls Warmington a journalist, he calls himself a columnist, for example on his twitter account.

There are other Toronto Sun columnists
Columnists | Toronto Sun
Their columns appear on the 'opinion' section of the media outlet. The actual columns are often labelled 'opinion' if they deal with current events.

And yet Warmington's columns appear in the news section.

This sleight of hand around a columnist being treated as a journalist has caused endless controversy about what he writes. Presumably, it's an arrangement that suits Postmedia network just fine.
 
Ritika said:
In order for a private Foundation to become a registered charity, must set up a non-profit organization first; Once this is done it must separately apply to CRA to be a registered charity (thus have the ability to issue tax receipts) . This process can take months if not 1+ year depending on the backlog.
It’s possible they are just awaiting reply from CRA to secure their charitable status.
Click to expand...

Apparently Honey and Barry Legacy Foundation has been CRA registered according to this profile. I agree, setting up a Foundation and completion of the registration process doesn’t happen overnight.

honey-barry-sherman-legacy-foundation | CharityProfile | Donate Online

ETA - >>>This discussion began over KDs recent media report from a source who claimed the Sherman children hadn’t created a fund to continue the parents’ legacy of giving, as JS had stated during his memorial eulogy.

However in my view the Honey and Barry Legacy Foundation, registered after their deaths, appears to contradict that media report.
 
Last edited:
MistyWaters said:
Apparently Honey and Barry Legacy Foundation has been CRA registered according to this profile. I agree, setting up a Foundation and completion of the registration process doesn’t happen overnight.

honey-barry-sherman-legacy-foundation | CharityProfile | Donate Online

ETA - >>>This discussion began over KDs recent media report from a source who claimed the Sherman children hadn’t created a fund to continue the parents’ legacy of giving, as JS had stated during his memorial eulogy.

However in my view the Honey and Barry Legacy Foundation, registered after their deaths, appears to contradict that media report.
Click to expand...

Added to that, the kids all, I believe, started orgs, but not altogether. To me, it's splitting hairs over whether they created a unified charity. They still did it, just not in the way promised at the funeral.

Re: Giving Pledge: Is it that a wealthy person agrees to give so much of their money and the Bill Gates foundation decides where it goes, or is it simply agreeing to do it?
 
tayaway said:
Added to that, the kids all, I believe, started orgs, but not altogether. To me, it's splitting hairs over whether they created a unified charity. They still did it, just not in the way promised at the funeral.

Re: Giving Pledge: Is it that a wealthy person agrees to give so much of their money and the Bill Gates foundation decides where it goes, or is it simply agreeing to do it?
Click to expand...

It appears the Giving Pledge represents an intention, without any firm commitment.

The Giving Pledge - Wikipedia
“The organization's stated goal is to inspire the wealthy people of the world to give at least half of their net worth to philanthropy, either during their lifetime or upon their death. The pledge is a public gesture of an intention to give, not a legal contract.[3] On The Giving Pledge's website, each individual or couple writes a letter explaining why they chose to give.[4]”
 
The Giving Pledge?
tayaway said:
.... Re: Giving Pledge: Is it that a wealthy person agrees to give so much of their money and the Bill Gates foundation decides where it goes, or is it simply agreeing to do it?
Click to expand...
@tayaway sbm Adding to ^post by @MistyWaters (TYVM:)), who quoted from wiki.

From my earlier post, quoting from givingpledge.org.

From givingpledge.org: "Signatories pursue their philanthropy independently and give to a wide range of issues and causes. The Giving Pledge is not an oversight organization, nor is it a pooled fund. The Giving Pledge does not distribute funds, grants, or donations in any form." bbm. Not just moo.
 
MSM Accuracy?
Satchie said:
.... I would point out that although the Toronto Sun calls Warmington a journalist, he calls himself a columnist, for example on his twitter account....
Their columns appear on the 'opinion' section of the media outlet. The actual columns are often labelled 'opinion' if they deal with current events. And yet Warmington's columns appear in the news section.
This sleight of hand around a columnist being treated as a journalist has caused endless controversy about what he writes...
Click to expand...
@Satchie sbm bbm You are far more observant than I am about the newspaper section in which Warmington's work appears, and I appreciate your pointing out the difference.

Regardless of how a writer (or publisher) describes his function - reporter or journalist- or classifies his work - news reporting, op-ed, or opinion, the saying goes "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."*
Re the Giving Pledge:**
Pledged $ does not "go" to Gates' charity or organization, as the article*** stated.
The actual transfers are not necessarily made by pledgor's will, as the article stated.

While reading current events, editorials, opinions, columns, etc,;) I'll continue to keep a salt shaker nearby. :cool: YMMV.

_____________________________
* Column in January 18, 1983 Washington Post. in which Sen. Moynihan's quote appeared.
^ Daniel Patrick Moynihan - Wikipedia
** From givingpledge.org: "Signatories pursue their philanthropy independently and give to a wide range of issues and causes. The Giving Pledge is not an oversight organization, nor is it a pooled fund. The Giving Pledge does not distribute funds, grants, or donations in any form." bbm
*** From article: "The initiative is designed to allow billionaires have their vast estates used to support projects they care about after their deaths. In the Sherman’s case, it would mean that the bulk of their estimated $5-billion estate would go The Giving Pledge and not to family members or designated beneficiaries as laid out in a last will and testament." bbm
 
al66pine said:
The Giving Pledge?
@tayaway sbm Adding to ^post by @MistyWaters (TYVM:)), who quoted from wiki.

From my earlier post, quoting from givingpledge.org.

From givingpledge.org: "Signatories pursue their philanthropy independently and give to a wide range of issues and causes. The Giving Pledge is not an oversight organization, nor is it a pooled fund. The Giving Pledge does not distribute funds, grants, or donations in any form." bbm. Not just moo.
Click to expand...

Sorry, all66, you went to all that work to explain and I didn't even realize that you were talking about it because I missed it while focusing on something else. I completely get it now!
 
Dec 21 2020
Toronto homicide detectives pursued financial motive in Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation, police documents reveal
''Toronto homicide detectives pursued a financial motive in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation once the murder-suicide theory was dropped, recently released search warrant documents reveal.

“The banking information will afford evidence because it will allow police to narrow down the time of death, track the movements of Bernard (Barry) Sherman in the days leading up to his death, and identify persons with whom he had recent financial transactions who may be witnesses or potential suspects,” a police detective states in February 2018, two months after Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead.

“Financial documents can also be used to determine if Bernard Sherman was in any financial difficulty,” a detective writes in a separate application to the court. These applications seek financial records from Barry Sherman’s accounts at the Bank of Montreal. Documents released in court reveal that his company, Apotex, had in late 2017 (just before the murders) been forced to lay off workers, with a second round coming in early 2018.''
 
tayaway said:
Sorry, all66, you went to all that work to explain and I didn't even realize that you were talking about it because I missed it while focusing on something else. I completely get it now!
Click to expand...
@tayaway :)S'okay, understandable that you missed earlier post.:) Sometimes I zip past the very thing I'm looking for.

Anyway, glad you found it helpful. :cool:
 
dotr said:
Dec 21 2020
Toronto homicide detectives pursued financial motive in Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation, police documents reveal
''Toronto homicide detectives pursued a financial motive in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation once the murder-suicide theory was dropped, recently released search warrant documents reveal.

“The banking information will afford evidence because it will allow police to narrow down the time of death, track the movements of Bernard (Barry) Sherman in the days leading up to his death, and identify persons with whom he had recent financial transactions who may be witnesses or potential suspects,” a police detective states in February 2018, two months after Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead.

“Financial documents can also be used to determine if Bernard Sherman was in any financial difficulty,” a detective writes in a separate application to the court. These applications seek financial records from Barry Sherman’s accounts at the Bank of Montreal. Documents released in court reveal that his company, Apotex, had in late 2017 (just before the murders) been forced to lay off workers, with a second round coming in early 2018.''
Click to expand...

Is anyone surprised by this? I figured from day 1 that it was imperative to "follow the money", as Deep Throat once said...........
 
dotr said:
Dec 21 2020
Toronto homicide detectives pursued financial motive in Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation, police documents reveal
''Toronto homicide detectives pursued a financial motive in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation once the murder-suicide theory was dropped, recently released search warrant documents reveal.

“The banking information will afford evidence because it will allow police to narrow down the time of death, track the movements of Bernard (Barry) Sherman in the days leading up to his death, and identify persons with whom he had recent financial transactions who may be witnesses or potential suspects,” a police detective states in February 2018, two months after Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead.

“Financial documents can also be used to determine if Bernard Sherman was in any financial difficulty,” a detective writes in a separate application to the court. These applications seek financial records from Barry Sherman’s accounts at the Bank of Montreal. Documents released in court reveal that his company, Apotex, had in late 2017 (just before the murders) been forced to lay off workers, with a second round coming in early 2018.''
Click to expand...

From your link—the last paragraph(!!!):
In one part of the warrants, police, in seeking permission from Justice Pringle to conduct a search, state that they might find “an extortion letter to Bernard Sherman.” No reason is given in the documents for that supposition.
 
I don’t see $580 million as a big deal, A billion is 1000 million.

Wouldn’t Apotex be responsible and not Barry personally for a lawsuit?

It is hard to imagine that money would not be at the root of this killing in some way.

So many money reasons. Could be someone who feels their life was ruined because of something the Shermans did
 
I am thinking there may be clues in the article. The police have video. They are checking phone calls for times. Hm. Could someone have been close to the house?

I think KD may be given directives on tidbits to release
 
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