Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    22,686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is it possible that way back, at whatever time you received your last email notification of a new post in this thread, you saw it and read it in your email, but didn't actually log in to WS to 'view' the post here... and in the meantime, posts kept piling up? So then when you received a different notification and did log in to WS, you saw the pile of posts in this thread that had accumulated? jmo.
     
    al66pine and dotr like this.


  2. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    22,686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Regardless of whether lawyers are required/obligated to file original wills in probate court.. I think in this particular case, because of the notoriety of the case, any lawyer would have read about it, and at the very least, would have contacted police.. and especially considering the articles questioning whether or not H even had a will. I did a will a longggggggggggggggggg time ago, and there have been major changes since that time.. I now have a different name.. and if I were to die, how would that lawyer from that long ago, even know about my death, or that I was the same differently-named person whose will was held in his files? No idea how that stuff works. I would think an executor might have to be informed ahead of time by the deceased, about which lawyer to contact, etc.?? Or perhaps even given a copy?
     
    al66pine, Kittybunny, WINDSOR and 2 others like this.
  3. JayFriend

    JayFriend Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    585
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I thought the email notification ceased when the thread was closed and a new one started, but I'm not sure. This time I just went to the top of the page and unwatched, then resubscribed got an email notification. The trick is to click the email button because the default is notifications with no email. I must have neglected to do that at some point.
     
  4. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    5,901
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In googling links to this case, I have come across a lawyer that I believe could be HS’ lawyer for her Will. If I am correct, ( I have no proof, just putting things together), that lawyer knew the Sherman’s personally, and obviously would know they had been killed. So not much risk of the lawyer not knowing HS was deceased. What the lawyer is supposed to do with the Will I’m not sure.
     
  5. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    22,686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Surely that lawyer would have contacted TPS and the executors, at the very least (since they are widely known), imho.
     
    al66pine, JDG, Satchie and 2 others like this.
  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,801
    Likes Received:
    49,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can’t imagine the point of anybody going to the effort of having a Will prepared and not letting the appointed executors know where to find it. What would be the point?

    Often Estate lawyers hold the original and even if one chooses not to tell beneficiaries what the Will contains, a business card is provided so the executors are aware of who to contact. If a Will is stored at home along with other valuables in a safe, often trusted family members are given the combination. The law office retains a copy which also ensures nothing was fraudulently changed.

    The Shermans were neither foolish nor naive. Anybody coming from nothing to multi-billions must have a few brains in their heads. I think the only reason the Will/No Will story took legs in the media was because the executors had the Estate file sealed before the final wills were put forth to be probated. What would be the point of the Estate files being sealed later?

    JMO
     
  7. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,801
    Likes Received:
    49,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Interesting, the chosen wording by the Judge who sealed the Estate File. By the emphasis on rumours, it could be construed the TPS announcement of targeted double homicide was primarily to squelch rumours, as opposed to the public’s need to know how the deaths occurred.

    “On December 15, 2017, Mr. Barry Sherman and Mrs. Honey Sherman were found brutally murdered in their Toronto home. The celebrity and wealth of the victims and the circumstances of their death generated intense publicity. Unfounded rumours swirled and were given a wide audience. On January 26, 2018, Toronto Police Service put an end to many of the rumours when they announced that they were investigating the deaths of both spouses as a targeted double homicide. ...”
    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2018/2018onsc4706/2018onsc4706.html?resultIndex=6
     
    al66pine, Satchie and dotr like this.
  8. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    953
    Trophy Points:
    93
    thanks very much to the poster that linked me to the article on "lead homicide detective didn't go to crime scene for the first few days"

    it just gets me wondering if 1) TPS is that inept, or 2) M/S is still a real possibility...... if this had been a poor immigrant couple, pretty sure it'd still be M/S
     
    Kerry Winter, al66pine and dotr like this.
  9. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,732
    Likes Received:
    7,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My memory fails me as to how it was decided that BS died first. Will one of you remind me? TIA.
     
  10. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,801
    Likes Received:
    49,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I really doubt that it matters. Even in a Staples write-it-yourself Will I’d be certain there’s a 30-day survivorship clause....it’s that common because it substantially reduces probate fees by not passing on an estate to another person who’s already deceased.

    There are umpteen examples of how it becomes impossible to determine which of a couple died first aside from double homicide including both together involved in a natural disaster, fire, car or boat accident, plane crash etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  11. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    5,901
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To answer your question, I don’t think we know if that has been decided or determined. I believe the assumption has been made by some people because the tps homicide site has HS as homicide #64, and BS as #65. But I don’t know if this has any significance.
     
    1&2&3, al66pine and dotr like this.
  12. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,217
    Likes Received:
    24,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How would Atty Know of Client's Death?
    @deugirtni. sbm bbm Good question but I cannot speak to the particular circumstances re Honey or re your situation.
    Iiuc it's common for atty/law firm drafting a will to insert a sentence/paragraph, reciting - (approx'ly) the will was drafted by Larry Lawyer, of ABC law firm of Big City, State (altho I'm not familiar w practices in Canada specifically).
    After testator's death, when family, friends, whoever - even if not familiar w the testator's wishes - search for a will in testator's home, they are apt to see the original will or a copy w this ^ clause (or even just a business card attached to the home copy), and will follow the breadcrumbs to contact Larry Lawyer, to advise that SoAndSo has died, maybe seek advice on probate related matters.
    So even w passage of many years & a name change, like in your case, possibly multiple address changes, it would not be uncommon or unexpected imo for an atty/law firm who drafted a will to be made aware of a client-testator's death.
    Again, not saying this would necessarily be the common practice in Ontario, Canada.

    Yes, good idea for testator to discuss w his/her intended executor whether executor stands ready to accept responsibility for handling obligations this designation involves/- before executing the will. Otherwise, after testator's death, the testator-executor previously unaware of testator's wishes may simply refuse to serve and a stranger may stand in executor's shoes.
    imo, could be wrong.
     
  13. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,131
    Likes Received:
    24,423
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just a passing thought, I wonder whether there was concern that the will was missing, rather than there wasn't one, ie that possibly the perp(s) had looked for/demanded it and took it...
     
  14. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,217
    Likes Received:
    24,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Complications from Simultaneous Deaths?
    @MistyWaters bbm I did not check Staples package, but---Yes, even the nolo.com WillMaker* DIY-will program contains a clause re "common disaster" or "simultaneous deaths" specifying a 45 day survivorship.

    Info dated 2017 from law firm** re Ontario statute re simultaneous deaths and survivorship clauses, and complications.

    Footnotes include good examples of how "simultaneous deaths" & "survivorship clauses" work.
    _______________________________________________________
    * Common Disaster Clause
    ** https://hullandhull.com/2017/05/complications-simultaneous-deaths/
    *** Uniform Simultaneous Death Act - Wikipedia Interestingly, the Uniform Simultaneous Death Act adopted in many US states, uses 120 hours, rather than 30 or 45 days as the survivorship measure.
     
    1&2&3, tayaway, dotr and 2 others like this.
  15. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,801
    Likes Received:
    49,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is where what we’ve been led to believe is confusing to me - Other than the lot the new home was to be built on, Barry holds the purse strings. If so, the assets in Honeys name are essentially inconsequential, but Honey’s missing Will is what makes the big news headlines. Yet Barry’s Will designating the beneficiaries of his multi-billions is hardly worth more than one line in passing.

    So I can’t understand what’s the big deal even if Honey’s Will was never found, if her assets were merely pocket change compared to the wealth of her husband. Can anyone enlighten me please?

    If instead Barry had transferred considerable assets to Honey prior to his death then some of KD’d unnamed sources insinuating Honey was virtually penniless are unreliable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
    Satchie, WINDSOR, al66pine and 2 others like this.
  16. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think the answer to this is we just don't know what assets may have been in her name. Although she didn't seem to have independent access to large amounts of fungible cash, it's possible (probable?) that for tax purposes, a considerable portion of the couple's fixed assets may have been in her name.
     
    1&2&3, al66pine, dotr and 1 other person like this.
  17. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    647
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I cannot say 100% that TPS/LE made this assumption, the media could make and publish this assumption (because they had no information to make up a paralyzing headline that no one can pass up on reading about - media get paid when we click and read) LE/TPS get paid to investigate and were in no position to share any crime scene specifics with the public, LE made their standard announcement that the public should not be worried and are not under any threats related to this crime.
     
    al66pine, Satchie, dotr and 1 other person like this.
  18. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,801
    Likes Received:
    49,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good answer, I don’t know either. Speculation is required in order to create significance. But then contradictions to other media reports appear. KD has not given us one smooth narrative IMO.

    What I wonder, in the sealing of the Estate Files, if it’s really the Wills that potentially have a connection to the homicides or if it’s something within the broader Estate Files for either of the couple. An Estate file consists of more than just the Will, it’s a complete financial snapshot at the date of death including assets, liabilities, receivables, payables and considering the Shermans’ wealth, who knows what else. Disbursements to beneficiaries directed in a Will receive what’s left over after all outstanding legal obligations are collected by the Estate, if owed, or paid to the Estate if required, forming part of the Estate File too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
    anonymess, 1&2&3, Sleuth307 and 4 others like this.
  19. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    Trophy Points:
    93
    It also occurs to me that my idea of being "virtually penniless" and that of a billionaire couple and their wealthy friends may be rather different.
     
  20. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    5,901
    Trophy Points:
    113
    MS/HS evidently had joint ownership of at least 1 Fla condo:
    Collins Avenue, Sunny Isles Beach, FL | BlockShopper.com

    I wonder if HS was co-owner of some/all of MS properties (reportedly 17) in the Toronto area?
    HS death without a will would likely have made that situation a mess.... HS share would go (I guess) to HS kids?
     

    Attached Files:

    al66pine, Satchie, deugirtni and 2 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice