CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Rush4087

    Rush4087 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know Bobbi Pearl..

    Are you saying we should excuse KW for the one occasion on which he seemingly gave the two different death scenarios equivalence, because 1.) he was simply caught off guard and put on the spot by the interviewer, and 2.) he was experiencing a “grieving reaction” where the amount of anger he felt was directly proportional to the amount of love he’d lost? - and that otherwise, a m-s scenario has all along been the only scenario KW was willing to believe and accept?

    I guess it could be, because again, except for that one occasion, KW has repeatedly gone to incredible lengths to convince the world that BS and HS’s deaths were a murder-suicide.

    He even went so far as to suggest this doozy:

    That BS accidentally strangled HS, THEN he (BS) decided to commit suicide, THEN BS decided that a murder-suicide would perhaps tarnish his postmortem legacy too much, so he (BS) THEN decided to call JK (who was in NY) to assist him (BS) in committing suicide and making it look like a double homicide. JK THEN somehow miraculously appeared at the Sherman’s house (not sure where he parked his car though) and assisted BS with the plan BS had contrived at the last minute to save his postmortem reputation and legacy. Keep in mind: JK apparently was not concerned at all about how it might look to TPS if it was ever later discovered that it was him (JK) who’d hung the Sherman’s from the pool railing using their belts (“I was just doing Barry a favor, officer. Really”).

    Thus, was BS able to pull off the staging of the century and make it appear that he and Honey’s deaths were nothing more than run-of-the-mill-can’t-blame-Barry homicides - or even double suicides - as neither manner of death is as image-tarnishing as a m-s. Heck, if that’s what happened though, why didn’t BS just ask JK to shoot or stab or strangle them both (be sure to break the hyoid though) - just to remove any doubt on the part of LE that it was a bonafide double homicide?

    You have to admit, KW’s theory seems as desperate as it is preposterous. Why is he so desperate??

    If KW hated the Sherman’s THAT much (and I have no doubt that he did), one would think that one horrible and humiliating manner of death would be just as acceptable as another. But this has not been the case. Is a m-s narrative that much more reputation-tarnishing than a double homicide? I don’t think it is.

    So why is it SO important to KW that the deaths be deemed a m-s? I think it is because KW wants the double homicide invention stopped. All jmo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021


  2. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    rbbm. imo.
    [​IMG]
    Mr Bean Distraction, MrBean GIFs - Gifvi
     
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  3. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    "If KW hated the Sherman’s THAT much (and I have no doubt that he did), one would think that one horrible and humiliating manner of death would be just as acceptable as another. But this has not been the case. Is a m-s narrative that much more reputation-tarnishing than a double homicide? I don’t think it is. So why is it SO important to KW that the deaths be deemed a m-s? I think it is because KW wants the double homicide invention stopped. All jmo. "

    I think that a domestic murder-suicide certainly tarnishes the reputation of the murderer, and it generates sympathy for the victim. I don't know how we could compare a M/S to a targeted double homicide, where both victims deserve sympathy for being murdered. Getting murdered doesn't ruin your reputation, does it?

    KW knew that promoting that Barry killed Honey would be his best case scenario for destroying Barry's reputation, which appears to be his main goal. He made sure we knew that Honey was hateful also, and didn't deserve sympathy as a M/S victim. We know that TPS considered it a M/S early on, which set KW off on his effort to prove M/S. His outrageous claim that BS had tried to hire him to kill BS years before was a huge FAIL on his polygraph. Kerry will never let go of his M/S theory. I don't see any grief on KW's part for the Sherman's demise as one poster suggested.

    I really like Kerry. I hope TPS aren't coming for him.
     
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  4. Rush4087

    Rush4087 Well-Known Member

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    I also really like Kerry. I think he and his cousins were robbed of their inheritance/birthright by BS (jmo). But I don’t think this was a M/S. I hope TPS are coming after whoever killed the Sherman’s.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  5. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Maybe true MistyWaters, but to hate that deeply normally you had to have cared deeply, to begin with. Barry gave them lots, in the beginning, went they reconnected he took them under his wing. Resentment is usually built over time, KW himself said they were once close, he would sit in his office and talk business, this is where I took the reference that they were once in a close relationship - be it years ago but at one point they had one. Personally, I think KW placates all feelings of his loss of his father onto Barry - his father abandoned him when he died (leaves the feeling of abandonment not literally did his father "leave" him), then Barry cut him off too " he stopped visiting me" abandoning him again.

    Oddly the comment that Barry did everything he could for them, makes me think that maybe Barry started looking at all of the family/relatives wanting or feeling they had "right" to his money and was cutting them all off, recalling loans etc.
     
  6. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Hi Rush4087,

    In no way am I suggesting we excuse any behavior, I am only trying to put myself in another person's shoes and figure out what could a person be thinking to act/react/verbalize in such a manner.

    We can easily judge and think someone is not telling the truth very quickly, sadly we do this without knowing all sides of the situation.

    To me, both KW and JS are acting odd, the only two to give interviews and opinions on the subject of the murders, the only two that shared feelings that BS was being unfair to them and should hand over $$ - but who am I to say, I have never been in a situation as they are.
     
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  7. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Well-Known Member

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    i too really like KW...... his forthrightness is refreshing (of course, he had the issue with the lie detector. however, in those circumstances i don't put too much faith in it.... and what he was responding to "falsely" was something i'd consider a fairly hazy memory)

    while KW was/is an obvious suspect in the killings, i dont think it was him for at least 3 reasons:

    1) he'd probably have told a bunch of people about it.
    2) TPD would have been able to solve that easily... UNLESS.....
    3) he paid someone to do it. don't think he had the $$$$$ for this AND i doubt a professional hitman would do it for KW (not discreet personality)... to me, there is NO WAY KW did the killings with his own bare hands. i think he had an alibi although maybe not a great one (but paying someone else to do it, alibi is irrelevent anyway)

    just seems like most of the people that know/cares about this have fingered JS without much actual evidence. having said that, if i had to bet significant $$$$$ on this, i would go with that scenario with zero hesitation too. but i underline there is little actual evidence in public domain pointing to JS (or anyone else for that matter)
     
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  8. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Assistance for BS?
    @CAMBRIAN bbm Interesting potential angle. Trying to follow the ^ hypo line of reasoning. How & when did BS get a hypo person, an Aider & Abettor, to assist in staging? What did BS say in hypo phone call, text to or in-person convo?

    If no pre-meditation, did it go like this:
    1. Hi, this is BS. Even tho I did not intend to harm or injure HS, I accidentally killed her. Come to house immed'ly. Either I'll kill myself, or you will assist w that, to stage both deaths as a double murder.

    Or did it go like this:
    2. Hi, this is BS. I'm going to kill HS. Come to house immed'ly to assist in my death & to assist in staging both deaths as double murder.
    3. Hi, this is BS. I'm going to kill HS & then commit suicide. Come to house immed'ly. I'll be dead by the time you arrive to assist in staging both deaths as double murder.
    If it was #2 or 3, then BS did pre-meditate.
    Or did BS make the request a different way?

    Not saying any of ^ happened, just considering possibilities. my2ct.
     
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  9. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, the M/S theory is bunk. The children never believed it (they hired extra security and launched an investigation), the TPS do not believe it, Kevin Donavan who has done the most investigating, does not believe it, and at least half the people who post here do not believe it.

    In their efforts to explain away evidence, M/S theorists introduce an Aider & Abettor, to assist in staging. As a friend of Barry's, this A&A person is no dummy. Quickly that person would realize that they would be exposing themselves to serious criminal charges, potentially including manslaughter.

    Who among you, for your best friend, would partake in such a horrific homicide and staging afterwards? Anybody?

    Maybe you might help a friend who was terminally ill take some pills, but could you watch while he strangled himself, then take his and his wife's dead body and stage them?
     
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  10. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    The ridiculous scenario also ignores the fact the Sherman deaths were determined to be a result of a double homicide. If this were put forth as a defense theory it’d be laughed out of court - honestly judge, I was only helping a friend…….JMO
     
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  11. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    and with friends like that who needs enemies?
     
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  12. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Assistance?
    @ldlager Thanks :) for your comment, prompting me to think of a corresponding quote from a movie (sorry, cannot remember title):

    A friend helps you move, a true friend helps you move a dead body.

    As @WINDSOR posted (TYVM:)), Who among you, for your best friend, would partake in such a horrific homicide and staging afterwards? Anybody?
    Me? :eek: Put my name on the list of big, loud, hard NO's.
    AFAIK, I have no friend who'd assist me w. that request, not even staging. my2ct
     
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  13. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

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    WITH DUE RESPECT TO THOSE WHO MOCK THE POSSIBILITY, THE M/S THEORY IS NOT BUNK. I SAID IT BEFORE SEVERAL TIMES: THE COUPLE HAD AN ARGUMENT WHICH BECAME PHYSICAL...WITHOUT INTENT TO KILL, BS DID IN FACT FATALLY HARM HS. TO PRESERVE HIS HONOUR AND LEGACY, HE CONCOCTED THE FINAL SCENARIO. FORGET HOW HE DID IT, - OR WHETHER HE FOUND SOMEONE TO HELP HIM....THAT IS SECONDARY TO THE MAIN PREMISE. UNTIL A SO-CALLED KILLER IS IDENTIFIED, MY THEORY STANDS UNASSAILABLE
     
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  14. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Some points that may make the theory assailable:

    • A third person would have to have been there for the staging: “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool.” ‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses.
    • Wrists were bound, then removed, and not found at the scene. “There are markings on the Shermans’ wrists, an indication that at some point their hands were tied together, though no rope or other ties were found near the bodies.” Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim
    • Officially the deaths are homicides. “Toronto police announced today they are investigating the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman as a targeted double homicide.” https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4505259
    • They have suspects. Detective sergeant Brandon Price: “Numerous ‘persons of interest’ have been, and continue to be, investigated throughout the course of this three year investigation…The goal of any investigation is to identify persons who may have been involved in an offence or to exclude them as suspects” Toronto police clarify reports over 'persons of interest' in Barry, Honey Sherman case - 680 NEWS
    • Barry didn’t seem to get far past the garage before something interrupted his path. Barry’s gloves and the home inspection report were found right by the door to the underground garage as if he had been stopped right there.
    • Motive and inclination are missing. Honey had physical challenges, but she was athletic, active and self-assured. If this was a domestic assault, why wasn’t Barry injured? A scratch, something? Some evidence of a struggle in the home? And by all accounts Barry was a pacifist who loved his wife and they both had many happy events occurring when this happened.
     
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  15. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

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    MY THEORY WILL BE ASSAILABLE ONLY IF AND WHEN A SO CALLED KILLER IS IDENTIFIED AND CONVICTED.
     
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  16. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    This theory is also assailable since, if it is impossible to have done it the way it was done, alone (the wrist bindings not at the scene), and if it is realistically impossible to have found a friend to have assisted him (many many reasons, not the least of which is that LE is aware of any communications made by B after the time he left Apo, and B would have had to communicate his wishes to have said friend cover it up for him, and that would be their first stop for questioning, lie detectors, alibis, etc.). If a theory is 'impossible' once one follows it through to the end, then obviously that theory is assailable, wouldn't one think, and back to the drawing board we go. The ability and means and required actions to actually carry out a theory is not really secondary, but fully attached to the main premise. I think it turns out, thankfully, that TPS is not as stupid as they would have to have been to have continued on with that possibility.

    ETA: In my opinion, continuing on with an impossible theory is akin to continuing to accuse someone who has an iron clad alibi (a true iron clad alibi that has been checked and rechecked).
     
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  17. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I think any theory in this case has its weaknesses, including my own that fluctuates with different suspects.
     
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  18. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    @CAMBRIAN sbm bbm If this post was directed to mine, my apologies. On rereading my post, I do not see it as characterizing your post as bunk, and I did not intend to mock it. If that was your interpretation, I am sorry.

    As to your earlier comment about BM having help, my earlier post was meant to point out - in a somewhat lighthearted way - that some of us would hesitate to ask and be unlikely to secure assistance of this nature.

    Maybe others would encounter no difficulty finding someone to help w a suicide or at least to help stage two deaths to send LE in the wrong direction.

    Maybe even without the $moolah$ BM could offer???

    Regardless, looking forward to more of your posts. :)
     
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  19. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

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    Apology gracefully accepted. I think we all feel the frustration that a resolution has yet to come. But, to wave my banner once more, my theory becomes more credible as time goes on. It is difficult for normal people to comprehend that someone would assist in the final scenario....but there are dozens, or hundreds, of strange and weird minds roaming the streets. It just takes one to make my theory possible.
     
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  20. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    Cambrian, I am the one who stated I believe the M/S theory is bunk. I apologize if I offended you.

    A couple further points, based on your statements.

    1) "but there are dozens, or hundreds, of strange and weird minds roaming the streets",
    Agreed, but how many were friends of Barry's? Only one I can think of, and he has a solid alibi.

    2)"UNTIL A SO-CALLED KILLER IS IDENTIFIED, MY THEORY STANDS UNASSAILABLE" The killers have been identified, we just do not know their names yet. The killer(s) know who they are. The police likely refer to them as 'person's unknown', or 'unsubs'.

    3) The word 'theory' has several meanings, one is "a guess or speculation".

    4) My dictionary defines unassailable as "unable to be attacked, questioned, or defeated". Maybe in hindsight you might have considered an alternative word or phrase.
     
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