CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    13
    My dear WINDSOR: apology accepted. If it is more pleasing to your ear, I offer to substitute the word "theory" by "judgment". As to "unassailable", I will concede that "sound" would be less presumptuous on my part.
     
    WINDSOR, al66pine and dotr like this.


  2. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I understand this response is fruitless for you CAMBRIAN, you do not seem to be very open-minded to anything other than proving your theory is correct, nothing to do with facts that do not fit with your opinion and view. You will not accept any other logical proof as truth otherwise - why I have no clue but for me, you are acting somewhat like a 5-year-old child caught with the hand in a cookie jar and with a straight face can say not it was not me who took the cookie. Your responses are very coy and defensive, either you just want to stir the pot or you have a vision of the night or what I am not sure. here it goes anyway:

    Can we add that HS stopped communicating with anyone after she arrived home (cell phone found in power room) more than 1 hour before Barry stopped communicating and arrived home? Why did HS stop communicating, she had lots on the to-do list before leaving for Florida why nothing from her since the call while she was driving home.

    If he killed her by accident after he arrived home and you want to show M/S, why put the cell phone on the bathroom floor upstairs, why hide in the pool area where it would take days to find the bodies, why not leave a note, why set yourself up in the staged presentation like the statues - what purpose would that suite in your theory?

    Bobbi Pearl
     
    Warwick1991, kiwi50, WINDSOR and 7 others like this.
  3. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I understand this response is fruitless for you CAMBRIAN, you do not seem to be very open-minded to anything other than proving your theory is correct, nothing to do with facts that do not fit with your opinion and view. You will not accept any other logical proof as truth otherwise - why I have no clue but for me, you are acting somewhat like a 5-year-old child caught with the hand in a cookie jar and with a straight face can say not it was not me who took the cookie. Your responses are very coy and defensive, either you just want to stir the pot or you have a vision of the night or what I am not sure. here it goes anyway:

    Can we add that HS stopped communicating with anyone after she arrived home (cell phone found in power room) more than 1 hour before Barry stopped communicating and arrived home? Why did HS stop communicating, she had lots on the to-do list before leaving for Florida why nothing from her since the call while she was driving home.

    If he killed her by accident after he arrived home and you want to show M/S, why put the cell phone on the bathroom floor upstairs, why hide in the pool area where it would take days to find the bodies, why not leave a note, why set yourself up in the staged presentation like the statues - what purpose would that suite in your theory?

    Bobbi Pearl
     
    Warwick1991 likes this.
  4. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38,722
    Likes Received:
    81,279
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Surprisingly common in the movies, but usually they pay a hit man not a friend.
    Lights, Camera, Play Dead: The Top 10 Movies That Star a Corpse | Read | The Take


    ''After his ninth unsuccessful attempt on his own life, a young man outsources his suicide to an ageing assassin. "If you're serious about ending it, you need professional help"

    Sort by Popularity - Most Popular Movies and TV Shows tagged with keyword "suicide-by-hitman" - IMDb
    21 titles
    [​IMG]
    1. Bulworth (1998)
    A suicidally disillusioned liberal politician puts a contract out on himself and takes the opportunity to be bluntly honest with his voters by affecting the rhythms and speech of hip-hop music and culture.

    [​IMG]
    2. Downloading Nancy (2008)
    An unhappy wife orders a guy she meets over the Internet to kill her, but the two of them fall in love

    [​IMG]
    3. I Hired a Contract Killer (1990)
    After fifteen years' service, Henri Boulanger is made redundant from his job. Shocked, he attempts suicide, but can't go through with it, so he hires a contract killer in a seedy bar to ... See full summary

    [​IMG]
    4. Bulletproof Heart (1994)
    A slick New York assassin accepts an unusual hit: a woman who not only is expecting him, but who is more than willing to be murdered.

    [​IMG]
    14. Suicide Me! (2011)
    Alex wants to kill himself. But his self-preservation instinct stops him from doing it so he decides to hire an assassin to do the job for him. After signing the deal, Alex starts to panic,... See full summary »
     
  5. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    13
    My Dear Bobbi Pearl: I choose not to respond. I always assumed that one could express an opini0n here without facing petty name calling.
     
    WINDSOR and al66pine like this.
  6. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,987
    Likes Received:
    22,548
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Theories?
    @Lexiintoronto
    Thanks for words of wisdom. Like yours, my theory could be added to list of theories w weaknesses (;)well, except I've not yet narrowed my thoughts down to single theory;)), so I'm not married to any one perp or theory.

    I hope that noobs to this case or to W/S do not get the impression, that vets here are close-minded because we're convinced we know everything about a 3 1/2 y/o case, and noobs have nothing worthwhile to add. Many ppl here w different education, diff employment experiences, & diff life experiences can & do make meaningful contributions to a case discussion.
    Lexi :D, TYVM for the reminder.

    {{{ETA. Tricia's site is unique:):D among the true crime boards, and Moderators spend a lot of time & effort on sometimes thankless work.:):D I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to share & read views here.}}}
    @CAMBRIAN
    @Bobbi Pearl
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  7. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,401
    Likes Received:
    46,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I assume you know you’re not the first poster here to avidly present “the assistant” theory. The originator was KW, the same one who failed the polygraph on the 5th Estate, who adamantly declared the deaths to be m/s possibly assisted by JK, who we now know was in New York at the time of the double homicide.

    Your adamant declaration stated as fact, not opinion, is very reminiscent of KW as well. “There will NEVER be an arrest. I repeat N-E-V-E-R. BS and HS had an argument which turned violent. Without pre-meditation nor intent, BS fatally injured HS.……” Yet much like KW, you have absolutely no proof to offer, while ignoring other member’s factual references providing strong doubt to your theory. Did something change and WS no longer encourages fact-based theories?

    Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8
    post #407 BBM
    “As l clearly stated on The Fifth Estate and much of what l said never aired....Barry hated Honey. He was very unhappy in their marriage and often called her “mean spirited”. Barry also had a very brutal quick temper....he could turn on a dime. I also believe he had dementia....how far along l don’t know. Did Honey provoke him as l had witnessed on several occasions....possibly.
    Barry may have lost it and hit Honey...not meaning to kill her. After he killed her, there was a few hours to think quick/straight and set up the scene of a double suicide....l believe l know who helped Barry orchestrate the diversion from murder suicide to double suicide…”
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    nuff, Rush4087, al66pine and 6 others like this.
  8. Rush4087

    Rush4087 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There is ZERO proof the couple had an argument.

    There is ZERO proof that the couple had an argument that became violent.

    There is ZERO proof that “BS did in fact fatally harm HS”. Huh? Can you provide ANY PROOF of this?

    There is ZERO proof that “to protect his honour and legacy he concocted the final scenario”

    And NO I don’t think anybody can “forget how he did it” - “and whether he found someone to help him” Those are hugely important issues to any M/S claim.

    And NO those issues are not “secondary to the main premise”. They are a big part of the main premise, even according to KW.

    And NO, your theory DOESN’T “stand until a so called killer” is identified. There’s ZERO logic to that statement.

    Where is the logic behind the statement: “MY theory stands until you can disprove it? There is NONE. Using this same logic, one could say that the targeted double homicide scenario is unassailable until somebody can prove IT wrong.

    And SHOUTING in all caps doesn’t make your theory any more “unassailable” or any more plausible than anyone else’s. Facts matter. You have no proof.

    Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    JoyMBee, nuff, kiwi50 and 7 others like this.
  9. Rush4087

    Rush4087 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Wrong (IMO). Your theory is assailable right now (as proof, many, incl TPS, have already assailed it). Jmo

    eta: I tried to scroll and roll, I really did
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  10. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    7,851
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why did some members feel that they needed to apologize for their logical response to Cambrian's theory? It is understood that all comments are welcome on WS, but we are allowed to rebuke any comments that are controversial and contrary to the reports of a police investigation.

    I noticed that Cambrian started posting again after the recent conversation turned to KW. I know it's not KW under another name, he has rarely commented on a post in three years, let alone calling anyone "dear". lol
     
    nuff, Bobbi Pearl, Rush4087 and 6 others like this.
  11. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Goodness....I have shaken a hornet's nest. I feel like I am Julius Caesar and the Ides of March are upon us. Bobbie Pearl made sure that I was down and bleeding by posting her same post twice. I ask: is Bobby Pearl really Brutus ?

    Say no more, please ! I shall remain quiet. Time will tell and I shall rise again to claim my laurel. Needless to add, M/S was accepted by the police until it was changed. I shall not venture as to why they changed their story...I would then shake another, and much bigger, hornet's nest. Cambrian will now quietly float away.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    Kerry Winter, al66pine and dotr like this.
  12. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    2,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I believe an important lesson we all can take away from this is 'Words Matter'. The English language is such a rich and diverse language. However some of the words have complex meanings, connotations, and implications that wield great emotional power. Cambrian has acknowledged that this reality previously.

    All of us should be prudent in our word choices, so as to have our readers understand our real points.

    Secondly when we disagree with a theory, as I did in this case, our response should be tempered. My initial response was not, and I apologized for that.
     
    al66pine and dotr like this.
  13. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Correct I owe you an apology if I came across as name-calling. I was attempting to reference how I felt you are acting toward our thoughts and information we shared as an equal opinion of discussion, I did not intend to call you any names. But it is hard to have an open discussion if you will not open your mind and help us to better understand why you are so heart felt on your theory.

    We do not know, you could be correct, we just do not see it your way, yet that is! if you could convince us with some precise reasoning?

    Your post that got this started was in capitals yelling at all of us, "WITH DUE RESPECT TO THOSE WHO MOCK THE POSSIBILITY", you got me riled up and it showed in my response.

    It would be great to have a decent open-minded two-way conversation with you so we could weigh in and out on some of the details, but you prefer not to.
     
    al66pine and dotr like this.
  14. Bobbi Pearl

    Bobbi Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    63
    sorry I did not try to post twice at all not sure how that happened.

    add:
    Just want to add, that you should not call me names if you are calling me out for it.

    I myself and I think like most others here discussing have no laurel to claim that we have the correct theory here, it is not a competition to me. This is a family dealing with brutal deaths in the family and we the public with an interest in justice want to see if we can help.
    Bobbi Pearl.
     
  15. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,476
    Likes Received:
    5,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Cambrian, would you classify KW as a potential or even likely candidate for the role of the "assistant" to BS in committing these crimes?
    Irrespective of your stated intention to "float away", I would be interested in your answer to this question. Thank you.
     
    al66pine, Lexiintoronto and dotr like this.
  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38,722
    Likes Received:
    81,279
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BS would surely be proud of this, imo. rbbm.
    Government of Canada Awards Apotex Inc. a Significant Contract to Supply a Safety Net of Additional Dexamethasone in Canada
    Apr 15, 2021
    ''Part of the Critical Drug Reserve in COVID-19 Response

    TORONTO, April 15, 2021 /CNW/ - As Canadians remain impacted by the spread of COVID-19, Apotex, Canada's largest pharmaceutical company has been awarded a contract with the Government of Canada to supply the Critical Drug Reserve of Dexamethasone tablets in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid used in a wide range of conditions for its anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressant effects.

    According to the World Health Organization, "It was tested in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 in the United Kingdom's national clinical trial RECOVERY and was found to have benefits for critically ill patients. According to preliminary findings shared with WHO (and now available as a preprint), for patients on ventilators, the treatment was shown to reduce mortality by about one third, and for patients requiring only oxygen, mortality was cut by about one fifth."

    After being informed of the outcome of the competitive process, Apotex significantly ramped up production to manufacture the supply, which represents five times the total current market demand for dexamethasone. The scale up will continue throughout 2021 and will ensure Canadians currently being treated with the drug for approved indications have continued access.

    "At Apotex, we are proud to produce more than 95% of our portfolio for Canadians in Canada," said Raymond Shelley, SVP, Commercial Operations-Canada & Caribbean. "This pandemic has further shown the benefits of domestic manufacturing as our fully integrated facilities allow us to easily adjust our manufacturing and distribution in order to meet urgent government and patient needs."
     
  17. CAMBRIAN

    CAMBRIAN Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    13
    I floated away, but a north-easterly wind made be return for a brief moment. KW: absolutely not. The "assistant", if that is the case, had to be someone in whom BS had complete and absolute trust and who would have all to loose should he/she be identified in the future.
     
    al66pine and dotr like this.
  18. Rush4087

    Rush4087 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There was no assistant (jmo). Name one similar crime in the last 200 years in any country - where there’s been an accidental murder, then the summoning of an assistant, then an assisted suicide, and then a staging by the assistant to make things appear like a double murder (all because a murder-suicide would obviously be much more embarrassing to the murderer than a double homicide).

    Btw, just how did BS summon the assistant? Smoke signals? He couldn’t have used the phone. Wouldn’t there be a record of any phone call? It makes no sense that he set it up in advance. That’s conspiracy to commit murder.

    I assume the assistant came with gloves and a hat and zip ties (in case BS changed his mind and struggled at the last minute). I wonder where the assistant parked (and if it was JK, just how DID he get there from NY)? And wouldn’t there be a record of his travels if he did?

    And why did the assistant leave BS’s leg’s casually crossed and his glasses perched on his nose like he was watching TV? That certainly wouldn’t appear to LE like somebody in the final throes of a violent death by forced hanging. And wouldn’t BS have requested a broken hyoid, lest the whole thing might appear staged? And I guess the assistant zip tied and then un zip tied their wrists to make it look like a double homicide. He also probably grabbed BS’s papers and threw them on the floor in that hallway to make it look like an ambush.

    But why did HS still have her coat on (she had to have been home at least an hour or two before BS)? And why did BS still have his coat on up until when the assistant got there? He was home with a dead HS for at least a couple hours before the assistant would’ve arrived. It must’ve been awfully cold in the house.

    And if the assistant was JK, wasn’t he 77? So a 77 yo and 75 yr moved HS? Wait. Maybe JK, after realizing he couldn’t adequately pull off the staging himself, called (or smoke signaled) ANOTHER assistant (it had to be somebody BS AND JK could really really trust though). I bet that’s what happened.

    ETA: btw, I don’t think KW did it. But I think he knows (or thinks he knows) who did. All just my opinion.
     
    nuff, Warwick1991, dotr and 4 others like this.
  19. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Don't like it, but have to wait.

    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Does he suspect a person, who got all the money from BS without any guarantee of paying back and who was admired by BS for his verve in starting different big projects?
     
    dotr likes this.
  20. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    2,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If KW did have a suspect in mind, why would he be supporting the M/S theory?

    If KW has a suspect in mind, and told the TPS, would they believe him?
     
    tayaway, Bobbi Pearl and dotr like this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice