CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

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otto

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Honey missed an important appointment the day before the deaths - no explanation other than "dealing with some stuff." That was 100% out of character. The last conversation the couple had together (outside the home) included the builder of the new property, a $20 million project. They did not go home together after the evening meeting. Barry was frugal and did not like unnecessary expenses. He wanted to stay in the house they had.

I don't see anything in the description of the bodies that eliminates a murder/ suicide scenario.

"On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”
...

Where her husband could be frugal to the point of ostentation, Honey, herself known to fly economy, enjoyed a few upper-middle-class trappings: nice jewellery, a Lexus SUV, getaways with “the girls,” shopping in New York with her sister, Mary. At their funeral, long-time Apotex executive Jack Kay recalled Honey and Sherman visiting his house in the early days of Apotex. Taken aback when she saw a swimming pool, Honey called out her husband for telling her they couldn’t afford one. The differences were showcased at a 50th birthday party Honey threw for Sherman. Guests were guided outside to see a new sports car with a big red bow. “Barry was not happy with the gift,” says Rubin. “ ‘Take it back,’ he told Honey.” She did.
...

In the last months of 2017, Honey’s time was also focused on the construction of a grand new house; the move would see a couple known for their relatively low-key lifestyle upsizing at an age most people are doing the opposite. Honey purchased a prime corner property, held in her name, in the city’s exclusive Forest Hill neighbourhood in November 2016. (The purchase price is not disclosed in land registry documents.) The intent was to demolish the existing house and build a stunning structure. Architectural drawings filed with the city reveal a 16,000-sq.-foot brick-and-stone home with a separate pool house, a 41-foot retractable skylight over a central swimming pool, an event room, an elevator and a space for live-in staff. Sherman’s need for privacy was reflected in the “large shredder” planned for an upstairs office.
...

Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures."
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

"Their bodies sat side by side, legs outstretched with belts looped around their necks and attached to a pool railing.
...

The housekeeper and trainer were first to arrive, around 8:25 a.m., and told police the couple's house alarm was off. They thought that was odd — it was the first time they had seen the alarm deactivated in the three years they had been working there.
...

Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.
...

A cleaner told police that Honey Sherman "never" went to the basement because she had "bad legs."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527
 

Kerry Winter

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Why does there have to be a third party when there were grounds for disagreement, financial challenges with multimillion dollar houses, the newly purchased house was demolished for no good reason, she was taking off to Florida again, he was driving a modest vehicle. Was she crashing around like a bull in a china shop?

I see grounds for Barry losing it due to personal financial pressure from his wife. Why wouldn't he drag her to the pool, and when he cooled off decide he better commit suicide as well? While supporting himself, he pulled his coat over his arms to prevent himself from rescuing himself.

If Barry murdered his wife, and had the option of prison or suicide, what would he choose?
ANEN….Otto.
 

tayaway

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Nobody is looking for M/S now but everything points to it being considered as a possibility in the beginning. KW never caught the train that left the station, he’s still sitting there. My question to him is why he’s so confident that a M/S occurred, it’d be interesting to get an update from his perspective. He’s told us various stories already including Barry being taped while murdering his wife, CBC having a copy iirc. So if this evidence is out there, is it real or has it been fabricated? What’s up?

M/S takes the heat off any suspect(s) out there.
 

WINDSOR

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Honey missed an important appointment the day before the deaths - no explanation other than "dealing with some stuff." That was 100% out of character. The last conversation the couple had together (outside the home) included the builder of the new property, a $20 million project. They did not go home together after the evening meeting. Barry was frugal and did not like unnecessary expenses. He wanted to stay in the house they had.

I don't see anything in the description of the bodies that eliminates a murder/ suicide scenario.

"On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”
...

Where her husband could be frugal to the point of ostentation, Honey, herself known to fly economy, enjoyed a few upper-middle-class trappings: nice jewellery, a Lexus SUV, getaways with “the girls,” shopping in New York with her sister, Mary. At their funeral, long-time Apotex executive Jack Kay recalled Honey and Sherman visiting his house in the early days of Apotex. Taken aback when she saw a swimming pool, Honey called out her husband for telling her they couldn’t afford one. The differences were showcased at a 50th birthday party Honey threw for Sherman. Guests were guided outside to see a new sports car with a big red bow. “Barry was not happy with the gift,” says Rubin. “ ‘Take it back,’ he told Honey.” She did.
...

In the last months of 2017, Honey’s time was also focused on the construction of a grand new house; the move would see a couple known for their relatively low-key lifestyle upsizing at an age most people are doing the opposite. Honey purchased a prime corner property, held in her name, in the city’s exclusive Forest Hill neighbourhood in November 2016. (The purchase price is not disclosed in land registry documents.) The intent was to demolish the existing house and build a stunning structure. Architectural drawings filed with the city reveal a 16,000-sq.-foot brick-and-stone home with a separate pool house, a 41-foot retractable skylight over a central swimming pool, an event room, an elevator and a space for live-in staff. Sherman’s need for privacy was reflected in the “large shredder” planned for an upstairs office.
...

Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures."
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

"Their bodies sat side by side, legs outstretched with belts looped around their necks and attached to a pool railing.
...

The housekeeper and trainer were first to arrive, around 8:25 a.m., and told police the couple's house alarm was off. They thought that was odd — it was the first time they had seen the alarm deactivated in the three years they had been working there.
...

Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.
...

A cleaner told police that Honey Sherman "never" went to the basement because she had "bad legs."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527

A woman calls to say she can't make a meeting and her husband '*advertiser censored*' about his wife's extravagances, and they travel in their own cars.
That is a typical day in most households.

Even if Honey had never ever in her life missed a meeting, how is that relevant to the manner' of their deaths?
 

JDG

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Otto, I saw their old house and it was very dated. The street has been changed (like many areas of Toronto) by infill mansions that are much more modern and fancy.

Some of the original bungalows looked better than the Sherman home, as they are brick.

IMO, the stucco homes do not age well, get very dirty over the years, etc.

IIRC, they had had painters in to paint over some water damage, so it was not in the best shape either.

The home they demolished was an older style home as well.

My understanding was that Honey wanted to move closer to her young grandchildren & daughter.

The Shermans had Billions of dollars. To buy a home and rebuild on the lot is not an extreme thing to do when you are wanting a lovely retirement home and have the means to do it. IMO

The elevator and area for live in staff prove to me that the Shermans intended to live out their lives in this new home, not in long term care homes.

Also they did leave the meeting separately but they also arrived in their own cars; nothing suspicious there.

IMO, the police initially said M/S partially because there is wide spread domestic violence and it is extremely common for a wife/partner to die at the hands of their spouse/partner.

Its only after they interview neighbours/ friends/ family that they get a complete picture.

Why it took six weeks (cause someone will ask..lol) I have no idea.
 
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otto

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A woman calls to say she can't make a meeting and her husband '*advertiser censored*' about his wife's extravagances, and they travel in their own cars.
That is a typical day in most households.

Even if Honey had never ever in her life missed a meeting, how is that relevant to the manner' of their deaths?

Honey did not call to say she couldn't take a meeting. She missed the meeting the day before she was murdered, which was 100% not the norm. Clearly something was on her mind - something so serious that she missed an important meeting without providing notice.

Barry wanted to stay in the house they had. Honey had purchased a new home in her name and intended to demolish it and spend $20 million building a new home. Their current home was put on the market even though they had no other home to live in.

They attended a meeting about the new house after the work day ended at supper time, but did not go home together for supper. Honey went home. Barry went back to work.

There's no evidence of a break in, although the alarm system was turned off. The attack happened to Honey in the bedroom using Barry's belt. If someone was hiding in the house, why wait until Honey was in the bedroom? Why not bring a weapon? Why not attack her when she entered the house? That would make it a lot easier to drag her to the basement pool area.

It makes sense that Honey and Barry would be in the bedroom at the same time, where Barry attacked Honey, then elected suicide over prison.
 

JDG

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I don’t recall that Honey was attacked in the bedroom nor with Barry’s belt.

Thought she was attacked as she entered the house, likely on the main floor.

Her phone was found in a washroom near the front door that she did not use according to staff.

IIRC, belts only came into play when they were hung to the pool railing, likely postmortem.

Do we ‘know’ if belts were used to strangle them?

Sorry, just don’t recall.

ETA: don’t think the method of strangulation was released, just that they died from strangulation. Method of strangulation would go to evidence, therefore held back from the press.
 
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otto

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I don’t recall that Honey was attacked in the bedroom nor with Barry’s belt.

Thought she was attacked as she entered the house, likely on the main floor.

Her phone was found in a washroom near the front door that she did not use according to staff.

IIRC, belts only came into play when they were hung to the pool railing, likely postmortem.

Do we ‘know’ if belts were used to strangle them?

Sorry, just don’t recall.

ETA: don’t think the method of strangulation was released, just that they died from strangulation. Method of strangulation would go to evidence, therefore held back from the press.

Regarding the bedroom and Barry's belts, I'm relying on memory. I just read this article:

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Oddly out of place is a statement that Honey recently purchased two belts for Barry at Canadian Tire for $10.

At the time of the murders, some info was released and then withdrawn - as though it was accidentally released by officers. I'll see whether I can find articles to support my understanding that the attack occurred in the bedroom. I could be mistaken.
 

otto

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Some articles state that the new house would cost $20 million, others state $30 million. The couple's children comment on a volatile relationship that was toned down in the last couple of years, but that's 35-40 years of volatility that could have erupted on the night of the murders.

"In her interview with investigators, police said the realtor told them that as she conducted a tour of the main floor, she noticed a cell phone in the powder room and was later told by the housekeeper that the device belonged to Honey.
...

When officers arrived on scene, they discovered Barry and Honey fully clothed in the basement near their pool in a “semi-seated” position, facing the wall. Their arms were behind them but not bound and there were two black belts looped round their necks with the other end attached to a railing.

An autopsy later revealed that the cause of death for both Barry and Honey was ligature neck compression.
...

One witness who attended the meeting told police that he remembered Barry remarking that he didn’t know why they needed to build such a large house when he probably only had another 10 years or so left to live.
...

According to police, Lauren said during her childhood, her parents were the screaming and swearing type but never got physical. She said over time they sorted out their issues and in the past five years, they were seen walking around and holding hands.
...

When speaking to investigators in December, police said the couple’s youngest daughter Kaelen Sherman said although she did not believe her parents were very close or in love with each other when she was growing up, they seemed to be getting closer."
It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far
 

otto

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More info about the belts - also questioning why it appears, on the surface, that the murder weapons were found in the house. Murders usually bring a weapon when murder is the plan.

Q: You also write that you don’t think the killer or killers were professionals. One reason is the use of belts—one was taken from an upstairs bedroom. Organized criminals don’t look for their murder weapons at the scene.

A: I’ve not seen crime scene photos. But I was told belts were used. Barry was wearing a belt that morning, one Honey bought him at Canadian Tire. The other belt was from their bedroom, or my supposition is that was where the other belt was. I don’t think a foreign object was brought into the house to do the killing. Why the pool? Because it’s out of the way, because the tile floor can be cleaned up easier.​

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca
 

JDG

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Regarding the bedroom and Barry's belts, I'm relying on memory. I just read this article:

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Oddly out of place is a statement that Honey recently purchased two belts for Barry at Canadian Tire for $10.

At the time of the murders, some info was released and then withdrawn - as though it was accidentally released by officers. I'll see whether I can find articles to support my understanding that the attack occurred in the bedroom. I could be mistaken.

What I recall about the bedroom is that the bed was not the way the housekeeper thought it should be.

The sink that Honey used was dry as well.

Seemed as if the murderers had had to go looking for a second belt, perhaps disturbing the bedding while rummaging.

Barry, I suppose, was wearing a belt but they needed one for Honey.

Was hanging them on the railing an after thought to their murders?

A final insult to have their backs to water?

Water is very important to us all but also very symbolic in Judaism.
 

otto

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I would like to hear from Honey's sister and her sister's friends. I'm curious whether they lean towards double murder or murder/ suicide.

"The fact Honey had injury to her face and Barry didn’t may have fueled thinking it was murder-suicide. The first police-mandated autopsy was done by someone who was not a veteran—and he wasn’t sure. The thinking in the first weeks was that Honey was the victim, not Barry."​

Did I read that Honey and Barry both said that Honey was coming into ~$500 million, that Honey intended to share the money with her sister. After the deaths, the sister was cut off, as was Barry's business partner. It's interesting that none of the 4 children wanted to take over the business, which means that 75 year old Barry was perhaps thinking of selling/ merging. I'm curious.

One question that comes up is - if Barry was the target, why wasn't he killed at any number of other locations when he was typically alone? Why would a murderer, who may have used Barry's two new $10 Canadian Tire belts as murder weapons, murder Honey? If it was work related, why not leave her alive?

Who benefits from both parents dying at the same time? The Will leaves everything to Honey with no provisions for charity (no Will for Honey) - very unusual given that Barry wanted to give while Honey liked to spend. Without Honey, it goes to children.

Why did Honey have an injury to her face and Barry did not? With all her health issues, we should believe the murderer decided that Honey deserved a head injury, while ambitious Barry stood still and did nothing - no facial injuries?

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

This link takes you to reader view - takes a second or two:

https://www.amazon.ca/Billionaire-M...?asin=B07PWT43JP&revisionId=&format=2&depth=1
 

otto

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What I recall about the bedroom is that the bed was not the way the housekeeper thought it should be.

The sink that Honey used was dry as well.

Seemed as if the murderers had had to go looking for a second belt, perhaps disturbing the bedding while rummaging.

Barry, I suppose, was wearing a belt but they needed one for Honey.

Was hanging them on the railing an after thought to their murders?

A final insult to have their backs to water?

Water is very important to us all but also very symbolic in Judaism.

The housekeeper noticed that Honey's bed was not made, also not slept in. She expected to find Honey's clothing from the evening before draped over a chair, but it was not there. That was unusual. True, no evidence that Honey used the sink that morning. Had she left early for Miami? If so, why was her car parked by the front door?

Perhaps the two belts from Canadian tire were the murder weapons - they're mentioned often. That leaves one suspect who knew they were there - one suspect who had something to say about the belt and house costs?

Did Barry, the frugal man, still appreciate quality when gifted a new belt? Was he looking at the two $10 belts - he commented at work about the $10 belt - and sitting in conversations with his wife about building a $20-30 million house? Would that make him angry? The new property was purchased in her name. Was she trying to separate herself financially, establish her own wealth independent of the children? Why was their house put on the market when the new house was nothing but a hole in the ground?

Some claim that people don't hang themselves from belts and railings, but they do.

"He was found dead in his bedroom, clothed, slightly suspended in a seated position with a leather belt around his neck, with one end wedged between a closet door and door frame."
Robin Williams found hanged with a belt, cops say

I think hanging was an after-thought for Honey, and the hanging of Barry was an intentional decision. Facing away from water is perhaps what Barry would have chosen - given his sins - assuming Toronto Police theory is correct.
 

WINDSOR

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Like so many things in life, some of us take a stand, then choose the facts to defend that perspective.

I think the idea in solving crimes is let the science lead the way to the correct conclusion. In this case, much the same way as with vaccines, and snow tires, the professionals and experts have come to a conclusion.

None of us have to agree, but by disagreeing, we incur some level of risk.
The other thing that is obvious, is that positions or perspectives rarely change, and in fact over time some believers become more implacable.

I may be wrong, in my belief that it was a double murder, with some family/friend linkage. There is a chance I will never know if I am right or wrong. Sometimes that is just how life goes.

One final note. The people who knew the Shermans best, their children, do not believe it was M-S.
 

deugirtni

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More info about the belts - also questioning why it appears, on the surface, that the murder weapons were found in the house. Murders usually bring a weapon when murder is the plan.

Q: You also write that you don’t think the killer or killers were professionals. One reason is the use of belts—one was taken from an upstairs bedroom. Organized criminals don’t look for their murder weapons at the scene.

A: I’ve not seen crime scene photos. But I was told belts were used. Barry was wearing a belt that morning, one Honey bought him at Canadian Tire. The other belt was from their bedroom, or my supposition is that was where the other belt was. I don’t think a foreign object was brought into the house to do the killing. Why the pool? Because it’s out of the way, because the tile floor can be cleaned up easier.​

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca
Would be interesting to know if when B was discovered, he was wearing a belt or not. imo.
 

deugirtni

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More info about the belts - also questioning why it appears, on the surface, that the murder weapons were found in the house. Murders usually bring a weapon when murder is the plan.

Q: You also write that you don’t think the killer or killers were professionals. One reason is the use of belts—one was taken from an upstairs bedroom. Organized criminals don’t look for their murder weapons at the scene.

A: I’ve not seen crime scene photos. But I was told belts were used. Barry was wearing a belt that morning, one Honey bought him at Canadian Tire. The other belt was from their bedroom, or my supposition is that was where the other belt was. I don’t think a foreign object was brought into the house to do the killing. Why the pool? Because it’s out of the way, because the tile floor can be cleaned up easier.​

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca
They did bring things.. for one, the bindings which had been used on each of their wrists. Also, as JDG stated upthread, we don't know what was used to strangle them. We don't know if it was the belts, or something else, with the belts used only to hang them from afterwards. imo.
 

deugirtni

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I would like to hear from Honey's sister and her sister's friends. I'm curious whether they lean towards double murder or murder/ suicide. I would sure love to hear from them as well.

"The fact Honey had injury to her face and Barry didn’t may have fueled thinking it was murder-suicide. The first police-mandated autopsy was done by someone who was not a veteran—and he wasn’t sure. The thinking in the first weeks was that Honey was the victim, not Barry." The initial ME who performed the first set of autopsies and specified manner as 'undetermined', was very junior in experience, in comparison to the one the PI team hired.. in fact the one the family hired had been for 6 years in the position of the original-ME's boss. There have been articles suggesting that the original ME's boss was difficult, controlling, tunnel-visioned - bullying to his staff, etc. (see this link and on that article there are a few other links as well (Calgary is not the only province to have suffered ME problems!): Christie Blatchford: 'Bullying' Ontario chief forensic pathologist accused of interfering with cases | National Post )

Did I read that Honey and Barry both said that Honey was coming into ~$500 million, that Honey intended to share the money with her sister. After the deaths, the sister was cut off, as was Barry's business partner. It's interesting that none of the 4 children wanted to take over the business, which means that 75 year old Barry was perhaps thinking of selling/ merging. I'm curious. We have been told in the years since this occurred, the Shermans held much more money located elsewhere, other than within Apotex. B had just purchased a property in USA to expand Apo's US presence not that long before the murders.. expansion, so it seemed he wasn't ready to sell. That presence/property was one of the first things to be sold off by the children, IIRC.

One question that comes up is - if Barry was the target, why wasn't he killed at any number of other locations when he was typically alone? Why would a murderer, who may have used Barry's two new $10 Canadian Tire belts as murder weapons, murder Honey? If it was work related, why not leave her alive? That's a great question, with the obvious answer being, imho, perhaps this was NOT work related. Anyone who wanted to target B could have more easily murdered him elsewhere, like as he walked out of his office any old evening, which has also been speculated upon in MSM over the years.

Who benefits from both parents dying at the same time? The Will leaves everything to Honey with no provisions for charity (no Will for Honey) - very unusual given that Barry wanted to give while Honey liked to spend. It has also been said that Bwas more of a pushover with the children's requests for funds, while H preferred for them to earn their way. Without Honey, it goes to children. The benefit from both parents dying at the same time might be to whomever the beneficiaries of the estate were - and that has been reported as being the four adult children. Without H being killed, B had provided for H in his will, using profits from Apo, IIRC, and I believe it was some kind of a fund which went on until her eventual death... therefore I'm assuming funds may have needed to be held up and kept aside to account for that. The killing of both at same time made for a clean slate. imo.

Why did Honey have an injury to her face and Barry did not? With all her health issues, we should believe the murderer decided that Honey deserved a head injury, while ambitious Barry stood still and did nothing - no facial injuries? It has been said over time that H was a bit on the outspoken/fiesty side. She was the first to arrive home that evening.. therefore, we assume it's possible she was dealt with first.. she may have 'known' the assailant and become 'mouthy', imho. Others have speculated it occurred while the killers dragged her to the basement. One or more of the kids said that if either of them were to lose their temper in the relationship, it'd be more likely to have been H, rather than B.

PS If you require more links, they can be found within the threads or I can provide some later.

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

This link takes you to reader view - takes a second or two:

https://www.amazon.ca/Billionaire-M...?asin=B07PWT43JP&revisionId=&format=2&depth=1
Comments in red above.
 

FromGermany1

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Would be interesting to know if when B was discovered, he was wearing a belt or not. imo.
I think, it was his actually worn belt and he wasn't wearing it anymore after murder. It was said, afaik, he was strapped to the railing "with his belt". Otherwise it was "one of his belts out of the wardrobe" (like in case Honey), IMO.
 
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