CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. Sarahlou

    Sarahlou Well-Known Member

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    BIB - How many people would believe their father was capable of such a thing though? Or the denial would be so strong they wouldn't allow themselves to believe it.

    It's such a shame this case is still such a mystery. I hope if this was double murder that they do eventually catch the culprit(s).
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  2. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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  3. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    The house had recently been put up for sale on the open market. They'd been getting some work done (painters had been painting and had apparently left windows ajar for fumes/air). My guess is that they were being proactive in having had their own home inspection done prior to an offer coming in (which many times will include an inspection clause), so they could deal with any potential issues that might be highlighted.
     
  4. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Yes.. he was wearing it.. I found this:

    In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

    Sources have told the Star that while one belt appears to be Barry Sherman’s (he was not wearing a belt when found) it is not known where the other belt came from.


    How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide
     
  5. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    After four years of media articles, police statements and much discussion, it's interesting that we are back to discussing the murder/suicide theory. I guess that 's what happens when the thread becomes inactive. Gotta talk about something right? Lol
     
  6. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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  7. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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    In the final warrant material that has been unsealed to the Star (dated Feb. 15, 2018, exactly two months after the murder), detective constable Yim writes:

    “In a previous application I had stated that I believed that Honey Sherman was murdered and Bernard (Barry) Sherman was either murdered or committed suicide. In this application I state that I have reasonable grounds to believe that Bernard Sherman was murdered as well and my grounds to believe are as follows.”

    The five “grounds” listed are blacked out.

    ‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  8. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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  9. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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    The woman was assisting Honey one day in November of 2017 (a month before the murders) and a gift bag arrived.

    “Honey made a loud comment about it, saying it was from one of Barry’s affairs,” the woman told police. The detective then writes that the woman “also thinks she heard Honey say that it was the hotel sending her a thank you for another one of Barry’s affairs ... thought it meant that Barry fooled around.”

    According to the police documents, that was followed by specific questions to other potential witnesses. Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, told police “infidelity was impossible in Barry and Honey’s relationship because of how busy they were.”

    Link above.
     
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  10. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    omg.. I just realized I typed the exact OPPOSITE of what I meant up above! Sorry about that! (Twilight Zone music is playing in background!) Meant to say Yes.. he WASN'T wearing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry about that!!!!
     
  11. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    I watched the news in the beginning. I heard that the family was unhappy with the findings of the investigation. I heard that the very wealthy family was hiring a team to endorse the family belief that the parents were murdered, and the subsequent findings were the family team deemed the deaths a double murder.

    If this was not a wealthy family, there would not be a new determination of cause of death - one that protects the reputations of the parents and the children, one that contradicted investigative findings.

    It's possible that the injuries to Honey's face were caused by being dragged down the stairs, but wouldn't that be obvious in an autopsy? A punch is different from a bump to the back of the head while bumping her head on the stairs. Which is it? The injury is to her face. What's the theory, she was dragged downstairs with her face hitting each step and that caused one injury to Honey's face? Implausible.

    One article says that the property report for the house they were selling was found on the floor leading to the pool area. Another report says that Barry's driving gloves were also found with that report. No way did he bring his driving gloves into the house from his old car in the 6 car garage each evening.

    He remained at work after the meeting about the new house. Why would he have the property report with him that night? Wouldn't that be delivered to the house by the property report person, or the realtor? He wouldn't be bringing that home from work. I don't believe that the property report documents were in his hands when he arrived home that evening.

    I think there's a different reason that the property report is on the floor leading to the bodies. The property report is unrelated to Honey's recent purchase of a new property and putting their home on the market.

    What's interesting in terms of murders is that Honey was murdered wearing the clothes she wore at the meeting. She had not changed, which should be the first thing she does when home at 7 or 8 PM. Barry arrived something like an hour later, or was it sooner, and he too was murdered in what he was wearing earlier that day - including his coat.

    I'd like to see more information about where they were between 5:30 PM and 8 PM on the day that they were murdered.

    If they were both murdered wearing their coats, and they arrived home at different times, that seems more like double murder using murder weapons that were already at the scene and no evidence of a break-in. Who could that be - benefited from both parents dead at the same time, happened to be at the house, happened to murder mom, happened to murder dad to cover up? Is there anyone in the family that falls into that category? Why stage such a bizarre scene at the pool? That seems to personal.

    So, in summary, yes, full circle.
     
  12. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    The gloves, property papers and HS's phone in the bathroom have always struck me as items used as staged props. imo, speculation.

    Skating on thin ice..
    Gloves off, "drop the puck", tighten your belt (Fight strap) bad call, time out.
    [​IMG]
    Grantland
    [​IMG]
    Toronto Star
     
  13. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    My comments in red above, again. Just in case this was missed along the way..... JS had been out of the country in Japan with his husband, and arrived back to ON on the evening of December 12th. LE believe the Sherman couple were murdered the very next evening. As well, just for information, within the same article linked below, it was reported that daughter AK is (or was at the time of the article), of the belief that her brother, JS was involved.

    [AP] replies to Barry, copying Glasenberg and [JS]: “Hi Barry, Yes, we are restarting these conversations with the banks to get this sorted out as soon as possible.” [AP] says it will take “time and money” to get “appraisals” and arrange the bank mortgages, particularly as it is the holiday season, adding “the requested ($6.2 million) funds should get us through until financing is available.”

    Barry replies to [AP], copying to [JS] and Glasenberg: “Ok but please do asap in case needed.”

    Two days later, [JS] and his husband, [FM], flew to Japan for a vacation. [JS] says he believes [AP] had conversations with two banks regarding the mortgages. While in Japan, he said, he “started learning and trading” cryptocurrency and put the whole matter of the mortgages out of his mind. He said there were no more emails about the funding issue. He and [FM] would return home on Dec. 12, in the evening.
    ......
    While he, his sister [AK] and her husband [BK] were allied at the start of the private probe — having regular meetings together with Greenspan and private detective Tom Klatt — [JS] says that at some point, [AK] started thinking he was somehow involved in the murders. Eventually, she hired criminal lawyer John Rosen to push Greenspan to end his probe and give everything it had collected to the police. That happened in late 2019 and Toronto police say they are still going over 20 gigabytes of information compiled by the private investigators.


    Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business - Today News Post
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  14. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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    I did understand, when you wrote it in your first version, haha. Do I have to worry about myself? ;)
    BS was wearing the belt, and because the killer needed it, afterwards he wasn't wearing it anymore.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  15. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Formerly FromGermany

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    I think, you have followed the correct order: first wish for murder would be mom, because she was the one, who was about to spend millions on the new home, which neither Barry nor the kids needed to own. IMO
     
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  16. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting article. I've not kept up on this case in the last couple of years. I'm not sure the son was involved in his parents murders, but he is a vain, self-centered rich guy.
     
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  17. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    As we are quickly coming to another anniversary of the Sherman's deaths. I think the TPS should provide a a recap or review of the case to the public.

    I would also like to see some sort of defining statement, such as.................

    "We are focused on certain individuals who we believe are involved"

    " This case has all the hallmarks of a meticulously planned and executed crime. It is obvious to to us, that the instigators were exceptionally determined to avoid being identified and apprehended."

    " We have exhausted all our leads, and we need the public's help"

    " We are confident we are on the right path, and will continue to stay the course, until we have sufficient evidence to lay charges"

    "The theory(s) we have been working with for the last several years, have been dis-proven. We are going back to the very beginning, analyzing all the evidence with fresh eyes to understand and lead to a resolution of this case."

    If for no other reason, I believe some sort of public announcement would 'rattle the cages' of the perps.

     
  18. JDG

    JDG Well-Known Member

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    The only defining statement I wish to hear is when they make an arrest in this case.
     
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  19. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I'm not counting on a TPS statement as the 4th year anniversary of the Shermans deaths nears. These anniversary statements by LE are usually driven by media requests. Unless LE has updated news, these statements are usually given to assure the public that they are still working diligently on the case.

    Kevin Donovan has remained silent on the case since his interview in Feb/21 on youtube. I can't see him pressuring TPS for an anniversary statement, because he has obviously backed off on pressuring TPS for information.

    Based on ITOs in court, TPS rep Const. Alex Li stated that they couldn't talk about the Sherman estate because it is embedded in their investigation. That certainly narrows down the focus of the investigation after three years. Const. Li also stated that TPS can confirm that a POI has been identified but not arrested.

    Shortly after KD ran an article about Li's court statements, in Dec/2020, TPS stated that they have a theory (meaning they think they know who did it) and have "numerous" POIs. That statement may have been made to take the focus off only one POI, as stated by Const. Li in court. jmo

    I think KD came to the realization that TPS needs time, and as he said " it could take years" to have the required evidence to bring a charge to court. It looks like he has willingly backed off to let TPS get on with their investigation. jmo

    Person of interest identified in murders of Barry and Honey Sherman, Toronto police confirm
     
  20. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    This story was.... Published Wednesday, November 25, 2020
    At least the TPS could confirm they are still focused on the same POI (or not) a year later.
     
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