CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

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newclues

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I think he's walking like that because he's amending his centre of gravity the way heavily pregnant women do. They lean backward when walking, described as a penguin waddle. He looks like he's in his mid to late 50s, perhaps a little older. He isn't a thin man and he may have a bit of a belly but he could have something fairly weighty under his coat at the front. What that would be, I have no idea. Doubt it's a weapon. Could be paper. Lots and lots of paper.
Papers like HS's will that is now missing?
 

ldlager

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I don’t know who KW is referring to, but he has mentioned the detective before:
View attachment 338633

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

See that's the thing. KW has posted several of these "quotes" or reports in the past. KW evidently believes them to be true- after all, the info came from a "retired homicide detective"...! And yet when multiple non retired homicide detectives, including the non-retired head of the TPS Homicide Division state publicly that the Sherman's were targeted and were the victims of murder, KW posts that these Homicide Detectives are not telling the truth, and that they are covering up a murder/suicide.

I am confused (ok, not the first time.. lol). Should we only believe what is said by retired Homicide Detectives?
 
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ldlager

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Actually, the retired Homicide detectives hired by Greenspan must also not be telling the truth, as they support the double murder scenario. Yet they have years of experience and have seen evidence that none of us have seen. So almost every current and former homicide detectives is not to be believed?
 

Kerry Winter

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Thank you KW, for that sheds light on other things too, #1. the belt is not the HS murder weapon, it was for staging the bodies and or scene only.

Curious, did this retired detective say if Barry was deceased before a belt was wrapped around his neck and the railing? with your belief that BS harmed HS and then himself with outside assistance to set the scene, I assume that answer is no, would it be accurate in that conversation you had with the retired detective to say that it appeared that BS was then alive when he was attached to the railing with the belt?

Or simply if he shared when HS passed, did this retired detective say when BS died?
I never stated she was strangled in the kitchen.
 

Kerry Winter

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Actually, the retired Homicide detectives hired by Greenspan must also not be telling the truth, as they support the double murder scenario. Yet they have years of experience and have seen evidence that none of us have seen. So almost every current and former homicide detectives is not to be believed?
Tommy boy Klatt and l had a nice chit-chat at a Second Cup in Richmond Hill. He brought along an associate.
He’s a terrible poker player. Wonder why he suggested a meeting between me and J. Sherman?!?!
 

Kerry Winter

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Actually, the retired Homicide detectives hired by Greenspan must also not be telling the truth, as they support the double murder scenario. Yet they have years of experience and have seen evidence that none of us have seen. So almost every current and former homicide detectives is not to be believed?
Greenspan was paid a lot of money to do a job.
During my one and only conversation with him over the phone l told Brian he was “playing a VERY bad game”. I was of course referring to the cover-up.
I’m still waiting for someone to collect the 10 million: LMAO!
 

Kerry Winter

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The last thing l said to Detective B. Price after our 4 hr Q+A at 31 division leaving around 1 in the morning,
“Do the right thing. Go back to your original theory and tell the good people of this city the truth”!
I think as the years go by you should all be a little suspicious of the double murder…..and, just maybe the original theory of M/S may indeed be the truth. I will state this here again:
There will NEVER be an arrest of the multiple murderers!
Nobody’s going to collect the 10 million!
My cousin Barry killed the and committed suicide. All so very sad. And, all the money is cursed. All 4 kids are doing well…..LOL.
Karma’s nasty when you rip-off little orphans.
Does the sins of the father fall on the children?
 

Lexiintoronto

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I never stated she was strangled in the kitchen.

You previously wrote Honey was killed in the kitchen. Three examples:
CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

ETA: Just pointinting it out. We’re wondering why you’ve said she was killed in the kitchen. Her phone was found in the front powder room floor, metres away.
 
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MistyWaters

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I was discredited and put under a rigged polygraph for a reason.

Isn’t it true you admitted to embellishing and fabricating the story on camera? So how does that make the lie detector test that you failed but apparently agreed to as “rigged”.

Winter and his lawyer agreed to a lie detector test on the question of whether or not Barry Sherman had asked him to arrange the killing of his wife.

The test, filmed by The Fifth Estate, was conducted by former Quebec police officer and veteran polygraph expert John Galianos.

Galianos determined that Winter was not being truthful about the alleged plot and that he "failed" the test.

While not admissible in court because of possible inaccuracies, polygraphs are commonly used by police officers to determine truthfulness.

Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story…


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176
 

dotr

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Funny how whilst hooking up the polygraph, the tester jokes about the blood pressure device and how it goes around the neck, heh heh, then says something about jumping in a pool, comments that would rattle someone, would that be allowed if it was a court case? imo, speculation.
The polygraph test @25:00
The Mystery of the Sherman Murders - The Fifth Estate - YouTube

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News
2018
''Galianos determined that Winter was not being truthful about the alleged plot and that he "failed" the test.

While not admissible in court because of possible inaccuracies, polygraphs are commonly used by police officers to determine truthfulness.

Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test.

"I mean, why go through this whole song and dance? That's really the underlying question here."

Late Thursday, Winter sent The Fifth Estate results of another polygraph test he says he arranged himself that showed the results were "inconclusive."

On the advice of his lawyer, Winter also declined to take a lie detector test on the question of whether he killed the Shermans.''
 
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juli99

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The last thing l said to Detective B. Price after our 4 hr Q+A at 31 division leaving around 1 in the morning,
“Do the right thing. Go back to your original theory and tell the good people of this city the truth”!
I think as the years go by you should all be a little suspicious of the double murder…..and, just maybe the original theory of M/S may indeed be the truth. I will state this here again:
There will NEVER be an arrest of the multiple murderers!
Nobody’s going to collect the 10 million!
My cousin Barry killed the and committed suicide. All so very sad. And, all the money is cursed. All 4 kids are doing well…..LOL.
Karma’s nasty when you rip-off little orphans.
Does the sins of the father fall on the children?

I really question if Barry would have seen it that way. I think he was pretty matter of fact, he said there was no meaning or purpose to life. If his time was up, it was up, nothing to do with karma. He probably would have been more distraught at losing a lawsuit or his business than losing his life. JMO
 

Lexiintoronto

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Not directly related to the case, but Greenspan team member retired homicide detective Thomas Klatt is in the news.

“An injury on vacation led to a 10-year legal battle. Now, this PI is fighting to keep $790K in damages

Toronto investigator Tom Klatt spent years trying to prove Sandals resort was at fault for debilitating fall’
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6405536


He injured his left leg in 2009 falling down stairs at a resort.


ETA: He slipped on his way to a plunge pool :/

“The Klatts travelled from Toronto to the Sandals Regency La Toc Golf Resort & Spa (the “Resort”) in Saint Lucia on January 4, 2009. During their first two days of their holiday, the Klatts went to the beach, the main pool at the Resort, and their private plunge pool in their luxury villa on the Resort grounds. After dinner on January 5, 2009, Mr. Thomas Klatt slipped on the stairs on his way to the plunge pool, suffering a serious injury to his left leg”
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2021/2021onsc2121/2021onsc2121.html?resultIndex=2
 
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dotr

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April 4 2022 rbbm.
“Is my Will really public knowledge?” Lessons from Sherman Estate and your options when it comes to privacy
By Alexandra Manthorpe
Wills and Estates Newsletter - Cunningham Swan Lawyers (cswan.com)
''In Sherman Estate, the application judge who first heard the matter agreed with the Shermans’ Estate Trustees’ unusual request to have the Certificate of Appointment files sealed. Sealing orders for estate administration matters are rare. However, the Estate Trustees stated that they “hoped to see to the orderly transfer of the couple’s property, at arm’s length from…the public’s morbid interest in the unexplained deaths and the curiosity around apparently great sums of money involved.” As such, they persuaded the application judge that any harmful effects of sealing the files (which effectively served as a publication ban) were outweighed by the privacy and physical safety interests of the beneficiaries.

Reporter Kevin Donovan, who covered the Sherman murders extensively, and his employer, the Toronto Star newspaper, disagreed with the sealing order and appealed. They argued that “the orders violated [their] constitutional rights of freedom of expression and freedom of the press, as well as the attending principle that the workings of the courts should be open to the public as a means of guaranteeing the fair and transparent administration of justice.” The Ontario Court of Appeal sided with Donovan et al, so not surprisingly, the matter was appealed once more.

The Supreme Court agreed with the Ontario Court of Appeal. In a unanimous decision, Justice Kasirer held that, “Court openness is protected by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of expression and is essential to the proper functioning of our democracy…Reporting on court proceedings by a free press is often said to be inseparable from the principle of open justice…Limits on openness in service of other public interests have been recognized, but sparingly and always with an eye to preserving a strong presumption that justice should proceed in public view…The test for discretionary limits on court openness is directed at maintaining this presumption while offering sufficient flexibility for courts to protect these other public interests where they arise.”

He continued: “The right of privacy is not absolute; the open court principle is not without exceptions…I disagree with the [Estate] Trustees that the ostensibly unbounded privacy interest they invoke qualifies as an important public interest…Their broad claim fails to focus on the elements of privacy that are deserving of public protection in the open court context…[However] a court can make an exception to the open court principle, notwithstanding the strong presumption in its favour, if the interest in protecting core aspects of individuals’ personal lives that bear on their dignity is at serious risk by reason of the dissemination of sufficiently sensitive information. The question is not whether the information is ‘personal’ to the individual concerned, but whether, because of its highly sensitive character, its dissemination would occasion an affront to their dignity that society as a whole has a stake in protecting.”

So what “affront to dignity” is required? Justice Kasirer explained: “This public interest in privacy appropriately focuses the analysis on the impact of the dissemination of sensitive personal information, rather than the mere fact of this dissemination, which is frequently risked in court proceedings and is necessary in a system that privileges court openness. It is a high bar — higher and more precise than the sweeping privacy interest relied upon here by the [Estate] Trustees. This public interest will only be seriously at risk where the information in question strikes at what is sometimes said to be the core identity of the individual concerned: information so sensitive that its dissemination could be an affront to dignity that the public would not tolerate, even in service of open proceedings.” For example, this could include revealing someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity without their consent.

Analyzing the situation before him, he held that, “In the present case, the information in the court files was not of this highly sensitive character that it could be said to strike at the core identity of the affected persons [i.e. the beneficiaries]; the [Estate] Trustees have failed to show how the lifting of the sealing orders engages the dignity of the affected individuals.
I am therefore not convinced that the intrusion on their privacy raises a serious risk to an important public interest. Moreover…there was no serious risk of physical harm to the affected individuals by lifting the sealing orders. Accordingly, this is not an appropriate case in which to make sealing orders, or any order limiting access to these court files.”

To those of us practising in Wills & Estates, the Sherman Estate decision was not really a surprise. Yes, matters involving Certificates of Appointment, including the contents of deceased persons’ Wills, can become public knowledge under the “open courts” principle, and courts will rarely grant exceptions. But the reality is most Wills do essentially remain “private” within family and friends: Why would anyone who is not a beneficiary or expecting to be named as a beneficiary want to see a Will? Most people – even “nosy neighbours” – do not make the effort to go down to the local courthouse to view a deceased person’s Will unless there’s a compelling reason for them to do so, as perhaps Kevin Donovan felt there was, given his extensive writings into Sherman family affairs.

Interestingly, Barry Sherman’s Will which did end up becoming “public” was likely not even his most revealing one! Since the mid-1990s, many business owners – especially those with incredibly valuable holdings like Barry – have created two Wills for themselves: One Will for their “probate” assets (and which risks becoming public knowledge), and a separate Will which generally remains private for their “non-probate” assets, including interests in privately-held business corporations. While multiple Will planning is usually done to minimize estate administration tax (probate tax) on death, it does have privacy advantages as well. It was well-established before his death that Barry was one of Canada’s richest men, a billionaire, with a large business empire. However, his secondary / “non-probate” / business Will is likely to remain beyond the reach of reporters and the public’s prying eyes.

Honey Sherman appears to have died “intestate” (without a Will), which in my view is perhaps the biggest surprise in this whole matter! Given her high net worth (even if lower than Barry’s), I would have expected her to have even just a simple Will. If you die without a Will, no one has an automatic right to administer your estate (unlike with a Will, in which an Estate Trustee is usually appointed), so intestacies often result in someone having to obtain a Certificate of Appointment.

Certain estate planning techniques, including the multiple Will strategy outlined above, can help people who are concerned about privacy and confidentiality''
 

juli99

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Honey Sherman appears to have died “intestate” (without a Will), which in my view is perhaps the biggest surprise in this whole matter! Given her high net worth (even if lower than Barry’s), I would have expected her to have even just a simple Will. If you die without a Will, no one has an automatic right to administer your estate (unlike with a Will, in which an Estate Trustee is usually appointed), so intestacies often result in someone having to obtain a Certificate of Appointment.

This is what I've been saying! It creates an unnecessary administrative hassle. These were smart people, it makes absolutely no sense.
 
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