Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.
And I doubt if that would've been of the TPS variety of informant.
We mustn't forget though, that in the initial hours at least, the family members would have *had* to have been viewed as potential suspects (*if* TPS had/have any brains at all, which I'm sure they do.. IN the event that it was a double homicide, which surely they must've also been considering?). They were presumably about to inherit vast sums of money. It would only have been due diligence to tell the potential suspects/family as little as possible, at least until LE had a chance to interview them to find out what they *did* know and get it on paper before they were told any details?
You are right, proof would be required, but I want to believe KW from time to time and quoted him. I hope, his statement is based on knowledge, from which source ever.
The leak of the audio recording came from a reliable source and has been buried. The article will arrive....patience. It won’t be a fluff piece like yesterday’s Wall Street Journal.
I KNOW Honey died hrs before Barry. If you draw logical conclusions you would have to believe that the multiple murderers ordered in pizza and watched Netflix with my cousin before killing him....mind you, without a single defense wound!
Kerry Winter, Jun 30, 2018 Report
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I am talking about not even contacting the family to tell them that their loved ones were dead. Some family members were out of the country, and certainly had alibis. Some family members were told by friends, not the police. And I read an account that said Jonathan first heard about his parent's death on social media. That situation is unacceptable, IMO, whether one is (even a remotely) potential suspect or not.
Yes, it was all handled very badly at the time. Devastatingly.
Many of the early MSM reports have been since scrubbed any mention of murder-suicide from their initial reports.
I wonder, did “sources say police....” instantly morph into a flurry of “police source”? The two aren’t necessarily one and the same. “Sources” could be anyone who “says”.
This appeared in The Star on Jan 19th
“Saturday morning a story broke in the Toronto Sun that police were working on a theory of murder-suicide. Other media, including the National Post, the Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star, confirmed the report that this was the active theory of the police at the time. In each case, the media quoted sources and did not identify an officer who put forward the theory.
Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim | The Star
The Toronto Sun - Warmington Sat, Dec 16, edited Dec 17
Officially, Toronto Police aren’t commenting on the tragedy — other than to call the deaths of one of Canada’s richest couples “suspicious.”
However, sources say police were working Friday night on the theory the demise of the billionaire Apotex founder and his wife, which has stunned the city and those who knew them, may have been a murder-suicide.
Murder-suicide suspected in deaths of Toronto billionaire and wife
In all fairness, people who knew the Shermans began tweeting their shock and condolences prior to the TPS releasing any information. In this era of instant news, the realtor, the cleaning employees and maybe even the neighbours would’ve all known and likely shared information regarding the tragedy with others. It can’t imagine it’s an easy task for police to immediately determine the whereabouts of family members.
It wasn’t handled poorly only by TPS in my opinion. The media also shares blame too for reporting “news” from non-official TPS sources involving death, in their endeavour for readership and attention-seeking headlines. They know people don’t pay attention to words like “may”, “perhaps” or “possibly” - SM then ran with the story of murder-suicide as if it were a published fact.
Nobody considered the feelings of the children.
Jon S. -
“...As my sisters and I congregated for two days waiting to hear any facts other than through Twitter and the unreliable news media, I kept expecting my parents to walk through the front door and say ‘everything will be fine, we’ve taken control of the situation.’ These past few days have been a shocking adjustment to our reality.”...”
Mourners pay tribute to Canadian billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman
Detective B. Price’s reaction when told re. 6-9 hrs time of Honey’s death to Barry’s gave it away. He’s not a very good poker player. Looked as if to say, “how the hell could he know that”.
Don’t need further confirmation. BTW: that’s exactly how my 4 hour interrogation/Q+A went with Price.
I had a thought. Does anyone have the house floor plan handy? It occurs to me that maybe they were staged to be facing something of significance. Can anyone tell from the floor plan what they would have been facing when hung? Is it just a plain wall? Wondering if they may have had some recent work done in that area that they wouldn’t pay for.
Found the floor plan looks like they were just facing a plain wall.
Kerry,I had posted earlier that I wondered if clues were given away by the direction and manner of questioning.I am sure you must have deduced something in the way they questioned you.Probably you cant tell us,but you must know some things that we dont.
@Kerry Winter -
We're still wondering about the "audio of Barry killing Honey". Is the Fifth Estate still waiting for that audio?
May 12, 2018 post:
I am going to try to decipher what you just said--please correct me if I'm wrong. You told Det. Price that you know that Honey was dead 6-9 hours before Barry died. You obviously had what you consider a credible source for that information, and you feel Det. Price's reaction confirmed what you stated as a true fact. Okay, but how does that delay between their deaths prove anything?
On an earlier post, you gave a <modsnip> scenario of phantom killers watching Netflix to pass the time after HS's death, and before they ostensibly killed BS. I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from. <modsnip> Even if it is true that Honey died 6-9 hours before Barry, how does that prove that he was the person who actually killed her? Obviously, I can imagine other scenarios.
Wonder if it was a mirrored wall?
You can imagine other scenarios? I can't, not without using a lot of fiction anyway. Bottom line, if there was a 6-9 hour difference in their TODs, it certainly does bolster the argument that Barry killed her and spent the night deciding what he was going to do and staging the scene. There would have been no logical reason for assailants to wait that length of time between killings.
It is my understanding that establishing Time of Death, is partly speculatively and not always exact. Especially if the bodies have not been discovered for many hours or days. It is also my understanding that no official statement has been issued regarding the times of death, especially that HS died 6-9 hours before BS. I personally do not believe there was such a time difference between deaths.
However if there was such a difference in times of death, it leads me to more questions.
One, could the assailants be interrogating BS about some issue during the time after HS was killed?
Second, if BS killed HS in a fit of rage as proposed by the M/S theorists, no doubt the rage would have subsided during those 6-9 hours and the 'normal' BS would not be suicidal.
Third, many suicides involve significant intake of drugs or alcohol. Logically if BS had killed HS, and in those 6-9 hours he became distraught and despondent, consumption of drugs and or alcohol would be reasonable.
However I do not believe the toxicology reports showed their existence. As well the use of alcohol or drugs would make the complex staging process even more unbelievable.
I have a difficult time imagining someone murdering another person by strangulation and then carefully and intentionally staging their own suicide to make it appear the two of them died by hanging from a low mounted railing, the deaths occurring through some sort of morbid but loving togetherness plot. Regardless of how many times that I consider that possibility, imo it’s still way too farfetched.
At the beginning, a murder/suicide theory seemed remotely possible if HSs cause of death had been different than that of her husbands.
Also, it is possible Honey arrived home several hours before Barry (after the meeting with the architects), so the killers could have killed Honey at 5:30ish pm and then killed Barry at 9:00ish pm.
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide
May 09, 2018
Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood.
Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say. The Star could not determine the contents of the email, but it was business-related. The Star could not determine if anyone at Apotex responded to the email.
If there’s any truth to this, TPS was interested in the next day, Dec 14th as well.
“.....Const. David Hopkinson had no comment on this or the case and made the point he would not be provided with an update on canvas activity.
But neighbours in the area tell The Toronto Sun that officers have been politely asking for video surveillance files from in and around Dec. 14 — the day the Shermans are believed to have died from ligature neck compression.
Residents say police are interested in potential footage of street movements of both pedestrians and vehicles. That they were talking to home owners on Lauderdale, which is tucked away from the Old Colony feeder streets, created a buzz....”
WARMINGTON: Sherman investigation expands to neighbouring streets